Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

am I seriously the only person who is not deeply disturbed by the T-60? Why the hell are you people so bothered by it?

So, uh... you guys remember how the Presidential Metro was actually a hat? [url=http://trainwiz.tumblr.com/post/134511395529/so-i-noticed-that-the-baby-in-fallout-4-is-an]The baby is an armour piece.[/url] I reckon it's so that when it's "equipped", all the actor has to do is crook its arm and it looks like it's holding the baby. No need to make a separate actor for the baby or animate it or anything, just make the potato-human an armour piece and attach it to the parent and off you go.

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49262699]..except that the T-60 is statistically better than the T-51 ingame. The X-01 is still the best though.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah it is, my bad, always was under the impression that it was the opposite.

[QUOTE=Everything;49262786]Brotherhood scholars and engineers don't know how to make power armor, they just maintain pre-war models to the best of their abilities. This is stated in game several times. The Enclave are the last holders of that knowledge, and they guard it with their lives.[/QUOTE] Except it's not and wouldn't make sense if it did. Power Armor was mass-produced at some point, it's impossible to just lose that knowledge and the brotherhood has plenty of experience working with those. It's pretty safe to assume that they acquired a bunch of enclave tech after the events of FO3 and are pretty well-off in DC, wouldn't be that hard for them to get some suits of T-45 and bulk them up with some armor.

[QUOTE=Everything;49262733]T-51 was so good it was too expensive to really mass produce at the time. It faced limited deployment in Anchorage because of this, and even though it floored the opposition, the military needed something a bit more efficient to make thousands upon thousands of. Enter the T-60. Mass produced at a lower cost per unit and made with function over form, it became the more popular one among boots on the ground, but the T-51 remained the mascot of the power armor infantry division all the way up until armageddon - just look at the covers of some of tesla science magazine. This explains why the BoS has entire platoons of T-60; all obtained from the frontlines of early post-war conflicts, from military storehouses or from factories which had not yet had the chance to deploy them, sometimes acquiring hundreds at a time early on.[/QUOTE] the t-51b was the suit that broke the lines in anchorage, and carved a path through china, but the t-60 might have been an upgrade or even a refit of the t-45 suits which were showing their age by then, if they were an upgraded t-45 then that could explain a lot of the similarities that armor set has with the t-60 as well as why there are plenty of t-60 suits in the brotherhoods arsenal now, having found either the parts to upgrade older 45 suits to the newer version, or having found a cache of t-60 suits sometime between DC and the commonwealth in any case, the t-60's official story seems to be that they never made it past an initial deployment in anchorage, and many of the suits in the country were probably used in haste after the bombs fell expecting it as a prelude to invasion, and to protect themselves from the radiation and keep order the vaults were being filled [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MissingGlitch;49262820]Looks like I know what quest I am doing with [sp]post-blind betrayal Danse.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp] go and kill everyone at the railroad because you killed danse as an example to the rest of the brotherhood?[/sp]

I'd argue there's a difference between building an airship (something possible in the 30s and before, common knowledge outside the military for countless decades) and precisely making a highly dexterous micronuclear-powered limb-enhancing exoskeleton (the process of which was classified by the military all the way up until the bombs dropped) The Enclave know how to do it because they're descended from the ones who made the first suits and still have all the documentation, materials and factories needed. The BoS have supposedly tried reverse engineering the suits, but they have failsafes intended to prevent the chinese from doing the same. They might be able to make an equivalent someday, but it will probably be quite crude by comparison.

I mean it's not necessarily canon but Midwest Brotherhood manufactured or at the very least modified their power armor extensively. But they took the time to actually setup a government/establishment for their region; the East and West coast groups are constantly on the move and maintaining their primary objective, which brings them into constant conflict, which can make it difficult for their scribes to have time to invest into anything aside from what is immediately necessary: the airship was required for the East Coast Brotherhood to continue their mission, but presumably they haven't run low on power armor reserves.

[QUOTE=Sector 7;49262823]am I seriously the only person who is not deeply disturbed by the T-60? Why the hell are you people so bothered by it?[/QUOTE] Nothing wrong with the T-60 in my opinion, except maybe that the head looks comically large since the proportions are so weird especially compared to the T-51

[QUOTE=Everything;49262905]I'd argue there's a difference between building an airship (something possible in the 30s and before, common knowledge outside the military for countless decades) and precisely making a highly dexterous micronuclear-powered limb-enhancing exoskeleton (the process of which was classified by the military all the way up until the bombs dropped) The Enclave know how to do it because they're descended from the ones who made the first suits and still have all the documentation, materials and factories needed. The BoS have supposedly tried reverse engineering the suits, but they have failsafes intended to prevent the chinese from doing the same. They might be able to make an equivalent someday, but it will probably be quite crude by comparison.[/QUOTE] I mean dude if they had the scientific know-how to [sp]rebuild Liberty Prime[/sp] [I]twice[/I] Im pretty sure they can figure out some fuckin' power armor.

its heavily implied that the BoS can manufacture PA in the capital wasteland, the cannon seems to imply that they've not only taken over, they've set up a pretty sophisticated manufacturing complex which allows them to manufacture or refurbish vertibirds, PA, advanced ceramnic alloys, possibly fusion cores, and many many laser weapons the vertibirds sort of acknowledge that they have at least come into possession of a lot of enclave science and documentation, of which probably filled in any knowledge gaps on power armor manufacturing. the prydwen is evidence of that, her hull has to be made of some advanced ceramic alloy (possibly saturnite!) to be able to float with that much plating

I was [I]really[/I] hoping the institute would pop out a new set.

[QUOTE=Minelayer;49262968]I was [I]really[/I] hoping the institute would pop out a new set.[/QUOTE] Imagine the X-01 but with 2 more arms coming out of the shoulders and an extra leg.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49262949]Nothing wrong with the T-60 in my opinion, except maybe that the head looks comically large since the proportions are so weird especially compared to the T-51[/QUOTE] I think the T-51 looks ridiculous, personally. That razor-thin visor would never make it past the drawing board; you literally wouldn't be able to look up or down if you were wearing that helmet.

[QUOTE=Minelayer;49262968]I was [I]really[/I] hoping the institute would pop out a new set.[/QUOTE] Considering the Institute and their hard-on for bioscience, I half-expected them to show up with MGS-style muscle suits that give all the strength benefits of power armor without the encumbrance. [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sector 7;49262987]I think the T-51 looks ridiculous, personally. That razor-thin visor would never make it past the drawing board; you literally wouldn't be able to look up or down if you were wearing that helmet.[/QUOTE] Rule of cool Also it's clearly a design inspired from medieval armor in which looking up or down wasn't important since you just had to see right in front of you in the general direction of the enemy. Concept being that T-51 armor was so strong and put to test against such feeble opposition that they didn't need that much visibility, as long as they could march forward and floor everything.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;49262960]I mean dude if they had the scientific know-how to [sp]rebuild Liberty Prime [I]twice[/I] Im pretty sure they can figure out some fuckin' power armor.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Liberty Prime is a giant robot.[/sp] The larger a machine is, the larger its components are, and (generally) the less precise they need to be to perform their intended task for long enough. Not forever, just long enough to do what needs to be done and not break in the middle of it. The BoS has a lot of raw mechanical understanding from reclaiming and tinkering, which shows when you look at the Prydwen [sp]and Liberty Prime[/sp]. What they lack is fine precision, seeing as how much of their equipment is very old and in a state of disrepair all its own. They don't have assembly machines which can weld on a sub-inch scale, nor do they have the means to properly dismantle power armor frames without ruining them. The Enclave do though, which they've kept up for centuries, and that combined with their extensive knowledge of pre-war tech's inner workings (which their ancestors designed) is why they can build their own suits.

actually i kind of think that the t-60 is simply a retrofit or upgrade of the t-45, they share similar armor designs, and the t-45 had plenty of issues that were solved on the t-51b, such as improvements in the interface, the plating, the power systems, the protection, and hazmat systems, the t-45 was never as good as it was supposed to be and the t-60 could have been an upgrade that improved upon the armor frames and would have done away with many of the bugs that hampered the t-45 and because it came after the t-51 it even would have incorporated improvements over that suit as well

Also since [sp]Liberty Prime was worked on by General Atomics and RobCo, two very public-oriented companies[/sp] it's fair to assume that the project wasn't as well protected as power armor was, so the BOS probably [sp]spent the years before and after they found it searching all of the nearby RobCo and General Atomics Headquarters in search of critical info regarding Liberty Prime, on top of what was found at the Pentagon[/sp] [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sableye;49263025]actually i kind of think that the t-60 is simply a retrofit or upgrade of the t-45, they share similar armor designs, and the t-45 had plenty of issues that were solved on the t-51b, such as improvements in the interface, the plating, the power systems, the protection, and hazmat systems, the t-45 was never as good as it was supposed to be and the t-60 could have been an upgrade that improved upon the armor frames and would have done away with many of the bugs that hampered the t-45 and because it came after the t-51 it even would have incorporated improvements over that suit as well[/QUOTE] The T-60 is practically just the T-51's internal components with repurposed, reinforced T-45 parts put over them.

[QUOTE=Minelayer;49262968]I was [I]really[/I] hoping the institute would pop out a new set.[/QUOTE] nope they stopped thinking robots were cool 60 years before you stumble out of the vault, really sad because i wanted to walk into the robotics lab in my PA and have them either a) laugh at it and proceed to improve it (IE institute paintjob or mod or w/e), or b) say "hey look at that primary motivator motivating!" instead its a full on biology lab, so lame

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;49262914]Apparently they can build vertibirds, because at the rate they are crashed, they'd run out of all the pre-war ones. BoS missed an opportunity to use synths as crash test dummies, maybe then they'd have a better air force.[/QUOTE] It makes sense that they know how to make Vertibirds. BoS get the blueprints from the Chosen One in FO2, and that happens before the whole West/Midwest/East split the BoS does after they make their airships.

[QUOTE=Dmaster;49263058]It makes sense that they know how to make Vertibirds. BoS get the blueprints from the Chosen One in FO2, and that happens before the whole West/Midwest/East split the BoS does after they make their airships.[/QUOTE] ya but that was....*checking timeline*... like 40 years before fallout 4, they learned how to make those from the enclave once they conquered them, and they have to have taken over some enclave manufacturing facilities in the capital wasteland

You have to remember that power armor was in every way a black file, in much the same way the US air force's stealth tech was for decades. Any information about them put out to the public was either heavily edited or outright false, to ensure no in-depth knowledge of the project would find its way into chinese hands. Post-war the US military ensured it stay secret, and formed the Enclave with the intent of using the knowledge they - and no one else - possessed to take back America when the time was right.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;49262990]Considering the Institute and their hard-on for bioscience, I half-expected them to show up with MGS-style muscle suits that give all the strength benefits of power armor without the encumbrance. [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] Rule of cool Also it's clearly a design inspired from medieval armor in which looking up or down wasn't important since you just had to see right in front of you in the general direction of the enemy. Concept being that T-51 armor was so strong and put to test against such feeble opposition that they didn't need that much visibility, as long as they could march forward and floor everything.[/QUOTE] Plastic power armour that's weaker but also incredibly lightweight or something would've been interesting. That or like vat-grown organic shielding, like synthetic augmented rhino hide or armadillo shell or something like that would've also been interesting.

[QUOTE=Sableye;49263068]ya but that was....*checking timeline*... like 60 years before fallout 4[/QUOTE] I don't think it so crazy that the knowledge was kept and passed around or documented, that's kind of what BoS does. My biggest question I've got with the BoS and their vertibirds is what the hell are they running on? They use oil to run.

[QUOTE=ElectricSquid;49263076]Plastic power armour that's weaker but also incredibly lightweight or something would've been interesting. That or like vat-grown organic shielding, like synthetic augmented rhino hide or armadillo shell or something like that would've also been interesting.[/QUOTE] like i said, the institute's robotics lab was strangely lacking in robotics, and their advanced projects lab didn't even bother submitting a proposal for PA modifications, or plasma weaponry, or cold fusion (which lol they say is a joke but whats on my back?) [editline]7th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Dmaster;49263077]I don't think it so crazy that the knowledge was kept and passed around or documented, that's kind of what BoS does. My biggest question I've got with the BoS and their vertibirds is what the hell are they running on? They use oil to run.[/QUOTE] clearly from the explosions, they're using fusion cores or some kind of cruder nuclear generator, possibly the stuff out of the old cars even

I'm not sure if i'm late, but I found this [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLfIC9njdfU[/media]

[QUOTE=Sableye;49263068]ya but that was....*checking timeline*... like 40 years before fallout 4, they learned how to make those from the enclave once they conquered them, and they have to have taken over some enclave manufacturing facilities in the capital wasteland[/QUOTE] It's in my head canon that when Maxson was sent by his mother to the Citadel, she gave him a container of sorts (a metal box, something sturdy) shut tight by a combination lock, with a ton of blueprints, coordinates and keys to caches that the Eastern BOS hoarded over the years. When shit started going down after Fallout 3, Maxson used the contents of that box as a bargaining chip to get promoted. Also explains how they got a hold of enough knowledge to maintain and possibly build their own Vertibirds and how 16 years old Maxson managed to get a [sp]fucking airship[/sp] out of nowhere and get it fully operational in 4 years. I'm okay with how the game describes Maxson as a fucking badass (which may or may not be a joke regarding how all the protags of fallout can be stupidly young and still be death dealing machines, with Fallout 3's protag starting at the fixed age of 19 years old), but I also like the idea that he may have partly blackmailed his way into leadership.

[QUOTE=Everything;49263071]You have to remember that power armor was in every way a black file, in much the same way the US air force's stealth tech was for decades. Any information about them put out to the public was either heavily edited or outright false, to ensure no in-depth knowledge of the project would find its way into chinese hands. Post-war the US military ensured it stay secret, and formed the Enclave with the intent of using the knowledge they - and no one else - possessed to take back America when the time was right.[/QUOTE] The brotherhood existed for 200 years and the united states government had far more secretive things than mass-manufactured power armor, power armor is the one thing the brotherhood had since the beginning of it all. I'm pretty fucking sure they have a damn good idea of how it works, especially when you add in that they faced the enclave twice and killed off two of their major facilities. And when you consider that giant blimp of theirs full of vertibirds which are supposedly super complicated and expensive machines, it's entirely possible that they have good manufacturing at DC, more than enough for at the very least upgrading some power armor.

anyone else find the constant praise for beating a courser sort of annoying, i mean its not like they're that tough, they were pretty stupid in my opinion, getting into a pistol vs rocket fight with me

[QUOTE=Dmaster;49263077]I don't think it so crazy that the knowledge was kept and passed around or documented, that's kind of what BoS does. My biggest question I've got with the BoS and their vertibirds is what the hell are they running on? They use oil to run.[/QUOTE] Vertibirds were originally ICE powered which was one barrier to other groups trying to use them, even if they were captured from the Enclave, since seemingly only the Enclave retained oil refinement capabilities. That detail may have been retconned. What I really want to know is why the pre-war Vertibirds have the carrier hooks on the spine for docking to an airship. I could swallow it being a post-war modification by the BoS on theirs only but what about the pre-war ones?

[QUOTE=Sableye;49263119]anyone else find the constant praise for beating a courser sort of annoying, i mean its not like they're that tough, they were pretty stupid in my opinion, getting into a pistol vs rocket fight with me[/QUOTE] It's mostly just an instance of dissonance between gameplay and story. It's so common in video games I practically ignore by now, it's like how in some games you can soak in ten hundred bullets but in the cutscenes one shot and you're on the ground.