Fallout V23: "I got another thread that needs your help." - Games

[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;49286929]whatever happened to those outcasts[/QUOTE] If I recall correctly. [sp]The BOS and BOS Outcasts actually put it all behind them and merged back together.[/sp] Well that's the least detailed and vague way to explain it anyway.

[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;49286929]whatever happened to those outcasts[/QUOTE] When the East Coast BoS came under Maxsons control, he started reimplementing west coast ideals and ultimately made a truce with the Outcasts that allowed them to reintegrate within his ranks, he contacted the West Coast BoS, who then reinstated there connection and made him the official Elder in charge of everything. To do all of this he basically had to say "fuck you" to the capital wasteland and completely forget Elder Lyons original focus, protecting the common wastelander and making the Captial Wasteland a better place, these "heretical" ideas were rescinded. They left the capital wasteland to fend for itself all for a re-connection to the west coast.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49286977]Their goals are to preserve [B]pre-war[/B] technology, and they also took up the cause of protecting humanity from repeating the apocalypse, Synths are [B]not[/B] pre-war tech, and they're a direct threat to humanity's existence, the tech is too dangerous to exist, I mean how long do you think those manufactured super-humans that are fully capable of experiencing sentience are going to stay loyal to some scrawny scientists that treat them like slaves? If the Synths became independent, and started mass-producing themselves, humanity would become extinct within the century, maybe even a few decades.[/QUOTE] If the preservation of technology was one of their main goals, surely they would have [sp]NOT blown up the Institute facility and would have utilized it as a base rather than blow it to hell[/sp]

I wish there was a medic power armor in F4. I loved that thing in F3.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49286977]Their goals are to preserve [B]pre-war[/B] technology, and they also took up the cause of protecting humanity from repeating the apocalypse, Synths are [B]not[/B] pre-war tech, and they're a direct threat to humanity's existence, the tech is too dangerous to exist, I mean how long do you think those manufactured super-humans that are fully capable of experiencing sentience are going to stay loyal to some scrawny scientists that treat them like slaves? If the Synths became independent, and started mass-producing themselves, humanity would become extinct within the century, maybe even a few decades.[/QUOTE] [sp]You do realize, despite the fact the Institute was creating Synths, there was probably a bounty, a treasure trove even of pre-war technology and knowledge within the Institute. And they let it all be destroyed because of one bug bear, that they could have easily dealt with and shut down. It's extremely short sighted of the supposed "protectors of knowledge" but then again, under Maxson they seem extremely single minded, if they didn't see the tactical advantage of having such a powerhouse of technology then Maxson clearly needs to be deposed, he's not following West Coast ideals who would have been on this technology like Donkey Kong, he's not even following East Coast ideals who would have gladly taken and reverse engineered the technology, perhaps even made use of it, he's following his own self righteous and shit ideals.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287068]Most of the institute's technology is based around Synths, what was there to salvage aside from Synth tech? Their weapons are trash purely designed to be mass-produced, they have no armor to speak of, their stealth technology is pre-war, and they grow food in the same way as any vault. I mean I guess there was teleportation technology, losing that sucks, but would the BOS have been able to figure that out? How would they even preserve it? I doubt any institute scientist would explain that to them, and any data on the subject would probably be destroyed during the fighting inside the Institute or purged by the scientists so it couldn't fall into enemy hands.[/QUOTE] [sp]They already did salvage it, you as the player gave it to them, hence how you actually get INTO the institute with BOS people in the first place you gave them the means and tech to do so. Not to mention even if all the stuff is synth tech that they don't have use for, the Institute still has a lot of resources in many other aspects. Blowing it up is NOT the way the BOS should have gone. Cleansed it of people opposing them? Yes. Blowing it to kingdom come? Nope.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49286899][B]General spoilers[/B] Yeah but the Enclave were SORT of the good guys in FO3, [sp]wanting to turn the purifier on, it was Eden that wished to wipe everything out. Which is confusing considering the commander that captures and interrogates you kills you if you give him the code to do the above, rather than let Eden go ahead and kill off a large chunk of things.[/sp]At-least if I remember FO3 correctly. Speaking of which. Surely there are remnants of the Enclave remaining during the FO4 era even after [sp]blowing up the Oil Rig[/sp] etc? [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] Not gonna lie. I'd still play that, just for the sheer fact of the way the described it...[/QUOTE]The whole Enclave vs BoS thing with Project Purity was more because whoever controls the water, controls the wasteland. I think Eden and the FEV was his own idea. So I wouldn't really say they're the GOOD guys.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287068]Most of the institute's technology is based around Synths, what was there to salvage aside from Synth tech? Their weapons are trash purely designed to be mass-produced, they have no armor to speak of, their stealth technology is pre-war, and they grow food in the same way as any vault. I mean I guess there was teleportation technology, losing that sucks, but would the BOS have been able to figure that out? How would they even preserve it? I doubt any institute scientist would explain that to them, and any data on the subject would probably be destroyed during the fighting inside the Institute or purged by the scientists so it couldn't fall into enemy hands.[/QUOTE] [sp]The Institute itself would have been a great prize, it's already a self contained headquarters full of salvageable technology, a working stable reactor for infinite energy. You don't HAVE to destroy it, there wasn't any way of actually leaving the Institute other than the designated teleporters. All you had to do was wipe out whomever would be required and then take it for yourself, and not all of the Institute's technology is Synth tech, the databases alone would be worth keeping.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49286996]If the preservation of technology was one of their main goals, surely they would have [sp]NOT blown up the Institute facility and would have utilized it as a base rather than blow it to hell[/sp][/QUOTE] My understanding was that [ending spoilers] [sp]the Institute offered nothing of value to the Brotherhood. Their technology was focused on creating new life and advancing bioscience, but the Brotherhood wants to secure mechanical tech and research. The Institute couldn't easily be repurposed for Brotherhood use, and taking their hidden base of operations wouldn't hold much strategic value because the Brotherhood favors shock & awe, not subterfuge. So much of their influence comes from having a massive airship visible from all across the Commonwealth and being able to field Vertibirds from the air. Destroying the Institute was the simplest and most effective use of their resources that also accomplished their main goal. It seems like a pretty good move to me.[/sp]

Also, serious spoilers guys??

Jesus, the intro videos of the different s.p.e.c.i.a.l abilities when starting up the game takes up 3.9gb.

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;49287103]My understanding was that [ending spoilers] [sp]the Institute offered nothing of value to the Brotherhood. Their technology was focused on creating new life and advancing bioscience, but the Brotherhood wants to secure mechanical tech and research. The Institute couldn't easily be repurposed for Brotherhood use, and taking their hidden base of operations wouldn't hold much strategic value because the Brotherhood favors shock & awe, not subterfuge. So much of their influence comes from having a massive airship visible from all across the Commonwealth and being able to field Vertibirds from the air. Destroying the Institute was the simplest and most effective use of their resources that also accomplished their main goal. It seems like a pretty good move to me.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]I honestly feel that even if they didn't use the Institute as a base of operations or even take the tech and resources from it, they could have used it as one HELL of a makeshift cache for weapons, ammo, armors, meds, food, you name it. Sealed from the outside world, only accessed via teleports of which only the brotherhood would know to use thanks to the PC and ofcourse without the Institute, they wouldn't be around to know how it works.[/sp] [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Atlascore;49287110][sp]The only thing you got was codes that allowed you to teleport to the Institute, the teleporter you build literally only works once and then it breaks, and it's not even the Institute's teleporter, it's Virgil's[/sp][/QUOTE] It's still a viable basis for the tech, that can then be refined and used later down the line.

Hell they didn't even have to kill the scientists really, they could have very well been repurposed or forced into working for the Brotherhoods needs. Sort of like what they eventually do to [sp]Doctor Li[/sp], she will never be allowed to leave again if Maxson has anything to say about it. [editline]edit[/editline] Obviously once you've take the Institute you move them away from it and provide them with alternative living spaces. after that it shouldn't be hard to force a bunch of scientists to do your bidding. Maxson would approve.

[QUOTE=DChapsfield;49287112]Also, serious spoilers guys??[/QUOTE] Sorry! Totally forgot. I think I spoiler tagged all/most of it now.

[QUOTE=Jad Hinto;49287092]The whole Enclave vs BoS thing with Project Purity was more because whoever controls the water, controls the wasteland. I think Eden and the FEV was his own idea. So I wouldn't really say they're the GOOD guys.[/QUOTE] i forget, what were the enclave even trying to accomplish in Fo3 if not dispersing the FEV? how would having the purifier mean they control the wasteland if everyone's doing fine with no water anyway? would they just have soldiers standing in a line across the whole Potomac in case any mutants try to drink it? is it bait?

[QUOTE=Cone;49287160]i forget, what were the enclave even trying to accomplish in Fo3 if not dispersing the FEV? how would having the purifier mean they control the wasteland if everyone's doing fine with no water anyway? would they just have soldiers standing in a line across the whole Potomac in case any mutants try to drink it? is it bait?[/QUOTE] I believe they were going to use it as a basis to control the Capital Wasteland, he who controls the water controls the Wastelanders. [editline]edit[/editline] Also the purifer only purifies the water in the basen right off the bat, Any water beyond the bridge is still irradiated as Project Purity will take some time to purify all the water in the Potomac River, so they'd have time to go exterminate a few muties.

[QUOTE=Cone;49287160]i forget, what were the enclave even trying to accomplish in Fo3 if not dispersing the FEV? how would having the purifier mean they control the wasteland if everyone's doing fine with no water anyway? would they just have soldiers standing in a line across the whole Potomac in case any mutants try to drink it? is it bait?[/QUOTE] Well Eden wanted to use the purifier as a means of killing most life, or at-least chunks of it. The commander/Captain/General whatever his name was. (Been a long ass time) wanted to take the purifier and use it for its actual purpose. Which as I said earlier, doesn't really make that much sense as to why he kills you AFTER you give him the code to achieve exactly that.

[QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49287193]The commander/Captain/General whatever his name was. (Been a long ass time) wanted to take the purifier and use it for its actual purpose. Which as I said earlier, doesn't really make that much sense as to why he kills you AFTER you give him the code to achieve exactly that.[/QUOTE] Because he's a dick, you caused the Enclave trouble and you served your purpose by giving him the codes. Why would he keep you alive?

[QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49287125]I honestly feel that even if they didn't use the Institute as a base of operations or even take the tech and resources from it, they could have used it as one HELL of a makeshift cache for weapons, ammo, armors, meds, food, you name it. Sealed from the outside world, only accessed via teleports of which only the brotherhood would know to use thanks to the PC and ofcourse without the Institute, they wouldn't be around to know how it works. [editline]10th December 2015[/editline] It's still a viable basis for the tech, that can then be refined and used later down the line.[/QUOTE] Well here's the other thing, [sp]the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel prioritizes staying mobile. They move to the Commonwealth when they learn of the Institute's existence, and Maxson tells you that pretty soon they'll be moving on. Obviously, for the sake of gameplay, they stay indefinitely, but that's just kind of a Bethesda thing. In order to repurpose the Institute facility, the Brotherhood would need to spend years dedicating scribes to reverse engineering all the technology down there, most of which they would want to destroy in the end, and what's left wouldn't help much more than what they've already got. Clearly the Brotherhood already has access to manufacturing facilities for power armor and Vertibirds, and Institute weaponry would be a fruitless path to pursue because it was all substandard to common Laser weaponry. Synth technology is already heretical to them and a great portion of the Institute labs would need to be demolished in accord. Then you have the matter of fielded Synths. If the facility was cleared and left empty, remaining Synths and Institute personnel on the surface could try to take it back. To stop this without blowing the place up would mean permanently stationing troops inside, just waiting around in case stragglers showed up. Finally, this leaves them with an ultimatum. If making use of the abandoned Institute is not worthwhile, then it cannot be allowed to remain intact, or else remnants, or another party, could find their way in and begin to exploit the technology. It had to be destroyed to preserve the Brotherhood's goals.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287211][sp]Then what do they even need the Institute's tech for? The only actually useful tech was the teleporter, Synth tech is too dangerous to preserve. At that point what reason does the BOS have to go down there? They risk lives and resources for what, to gain a club house?[/sp] [sp]I mean I kind of agree that blowing up the place was kind of dumb, but in the end there wasn't really much point in going down there and fighting a huge battle, all they'd have to show for it is tech they'd dispose of anyway and a battle-scarred facility.[/sp][/QUOTE] It could still be torn apart and reused, circuitry and silver, steel and such, crystals, general plant life and habitat.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287267][sp]None of that is worth risking lives and resources over, conquering the Institute's headquarters wouldn't be a cake walk, they'd fight to the end and you'd lose a lot of men, weapons, and power armor.[/sp][/QUOTE] None of that is worth risking lives, a technological center with vast databases of what might be lost technology, that you simply destroy isn't worth risking LIVES? Do you know the mantra for the West Coast that Maxson seems to love to hump? Technology is worth way more than a few lives.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287267][sp]None of that is worth risking lives and resources over, conquering the Institute's headquarters wouldn't be a cake walk, they'd fight to the end and you'd lose a lot of men, weapons, and power armor.[/sp][/QUOTE] Yeah but [sp]We are talking about why they blow it sky high, they would have ALREADY cleaned it out, blowing it up was just wiping it from the earth and wasting those resources.[/sp]

The BoS keeping the Institute as a base of operations wouldn't make any sense since (endgame spoilers) [sp]Liberty Prime lasered a tunnel straight into the entrance and everyone in the commonwealth knows where it is now, so it would need a significant picket force to defend it.[/sp] The only thing there of any use to them were the heaps of scientific equipment that they had lying around, (most of which is gone because I plundered the place for all it was worth :v:) and the [sp]reactor but they don't need that either because the Prydwen already has one[/sp] The Minutemen and the Railroad, on the other hand, could get a lot of use out of the place

[QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49287302]Yeah but [sp]We are talking about why they blow it sky high, they would have ALREADY cleaned it out, blowing it up was just wiping it from the earth and wasting those resources.[/sp][/QUOTE] Pretty much, the reactor itself is worth a significant amount. [QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;49287303]The BoS keeping the Institute as a base of operations wouldn't make any sense since (endgame spoilers) [sp]Liberty Prime lasered a tunnel straight into the entrance and everyone in the commonwealth knows where it is now, so it would need a significant picket force to defend it.[/sp] The only thing there of any use to them were the heaps of scientific equipment that they had lying around, (most of which is gone because I plundered the place for all it was worth :v:) and the [sp]reactor but they don't need that either because the Prydwen already has one[/sp] The Minutemen and the Railroad, on the other hand, could get a lot of use out of the place[/QUOTE] Which they took from Rivet City, leaving them powerless and the reactor on the Prydwen is nothing compared to the reactor in the Institute.

[QUOTE=butre;49286066]well I have a fully furnished 8 story building on spectacle island[/QUOTE] Time to make my drug settlement small shack into a high-rise building. TY for the indirect suggestion, and actually I had been thinking about it before.

The reason why you can't take control of the institute or whatnot is because it is much easier and cheaper to blow something up than write all of the scripting and voice acting cost, and means the game can be released faster I don't think it's really lore-related. Especially as with the minutemen there is literally no lorewise reason why you as their general can't say "Let's not blow it up". It's simply because bethsoft didn't have the time to put in anything more complex than blowing it up and removing it from the map.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287332]We're not talking about a few lives here, you're dropping troops into a giant hornet's nest, the casualties would be huge. Also, would even the West Coast BOS keep Synth tech? It's far more dangerous than the atomic bombs that obliterated humanity 200 years ago, [sp]we're talking about artificial humans that excel over humans in every category, can infiltrate any group, and can produce more of themselves infinitely.[/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]Yes but the point was that they've already taken it over, blowing it up after doing that is just a massive waste of tech, information, potential research and resources[/sp]

Also, I wonder if settlers sit around the bar and/or interact with crafting stations (drugs) even at night, if you give them no beds? Must experiment..

[QUOTE=Atlascore;49287332]We're not talking about a few lives here, you're dropping troops into a giant hornet's nest, the casualties would be huge. Also, would even the West Coast BOS keep Synth tech? It's far more dangerous than the atomic bombs that obliterated humanity 200 years ago, [sp]we're talking about artificial humans that excel over humans in every category, can infiltrate any group, and can produce more of themselves infinitely.[/sp][/QUOTE] They don't excel over humans in every category, that was coming from a guy who basically WANTS them to, but who's opinions were shut down by "You don't like how we are doing things here, you can go to the teleporter and leave" They aren't fucking Super Human, the only Synths that ARE super human would be the Coursers and they aren't your normal average Gen 3, they are basically filled with all sorts of cybernetic implants and brainwashed to hell and back to be so loyal to the Institute that they would DIE for it, Gen 3's are just humans with control chips and some slight cybernetics. Hell every Synth I met never thought of themselves as better, most of them thought of themselves as LESSER in fact, your big bad Terminator Armageddon ending or Pod People ending wouldn't have come into fruition.

[QUOTE=jonu67;49287178]I believe they were going to use it as a basis to control the Capital Wasteland, he who controls the water controls the Wastelanders.[/QUOTE] but the only settlement anywhere near the Potomac is Rivet City, the rest are reliant on BoS water caravans in Broken Steel and apparently have other means of getting water anyway [QUOTE=Jamie1992GSC;49287193]Well Eden wanted to use the purifier as a means of killing most life, or at-least chunks of it. The commander/Captain/General whatever his name was. (Been a long ass time) wanted to take the purifier and use it for its actual purpose. Which as I said earlier, doesn't really make that much sense as to why he kills you AFTER you give him the code to achieve exactly that.[/QUOTE] but then why does he shoot up everyone at Project Purity when they tell him it's broken? surely he could have figured that out himself and consolidated their resources if everyone was trying to do exactly the same thing? he kills the most useful people on the project for already doing what he was gonna tell them to do, [I]then tells them to keep doing what they were doing before he showed up,[/I] so that they can continue to all do the same thing that he just executed someone for doing. which James would rather die than comply with. christ those enclave soldiers must be so fucking confused every time they get an order