Undertale megathread v5 - An award-winning RPG where nobody has to get SPOILERS. YES, that STILL inc - Games

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49765989]" Never mind that the developer censors negative reviews." [/QUOTE] I could have sworn this was addressed several times. Anyway, if you end up replying to them, please tell them that they can't write a proper argument for shit

[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/969069/Other/mettaton_idle.gif[/img]

This is good for responding to hatedom [IMG]https://33.media.tumblr.com/1ee726f97a20161c20e0b62045e969a7/tumblr_inline_nycjgix1s41ricwa2_500.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=red_pharoah;49766099]I could have sworn this was addressed several times. Anyway, if you end up replying to them, please tell them that they can't write a proper argument for shit[/QUOTE] I never actually heard about this. What ended up being the case?

[QUOTE=Yahnich;49765996]man u can dislike the story gameplay and graphics but how can anyone hate on the music[/QUOTE] i found where that blog post came from [t]http://i.imgur.com/e5jEkVa.png[/t]

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49765989]So a friend of mine posted a rather blunt blog post (which I am [I]not[/I] going to link here because I don't want idiots going to him and harass) stating why he didn't think Undertal was too hot. I can't tell if he's being contrarian for the sake of it or he legit hates the game because this is how he expresses his opinion. Should I try to post a legitimate rebuttal on his post? Informative for yes, Useful for no and ignore it, or Late for me to call him an idiot and leave it at that.[/QUOTE] Link him megalovania somehow without him knowing it's from undertale if he doesn't know the song already. If he likes it, then tell him it's from undertale. If he says he then hates it after you tell it's from undertale, then he's one of those people that just hates things for the sake of hating them. However, if he hates it before he knows what it's from, then he's objectively wrong and you won't need to go any further from there.

[QUOTE=Humin;49766207]Link him megalovania somehow without him knowing it's from undertale if he doesn't know the song already. If he likes it, then tell him it's from undertale. If he says he then hates it after you tell it's from undertale, then he's one of those people that just hates things for the sake of hating them. However, if he hates it before he knows what it's from, then he's objectively wrong and you won't need to go any further from there.[/QUOTE] I might try that. [editline]18th February 2016[/editline] Apparently he knew Megalovania was from Undertale but he hasn't heard it. [QUOTE]I'm not gonna listen to that because it's from Undertale. everything I heard before sucked so its guaranteed to suck as well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49766214]I might try that. [editline]18th February 2016[/editline] Apparently he knew Megalovania was from Undertale but he hasn't heard it.[/QUOTE] Yea he just hates it because it's popular.

[QUOTE=IrishBandit;49766279]Yea he just hates it because it's popular.[/QUOTE] I'm still unconvinced. I know the dude, so it might just him being impatient with the Ruins maybe. I might do that legit rebuttal after all.

If all else fails, there are always buttercups.

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49766295]I'm still unconvinced. I know the dude, so it might just him being impatient with the Ruins maybe. I might do that legit rebuttal after all.[/QUOTE] Ask him how far he played, if he hasn't left the ruins and formed a full opinion on the game then :v:

[QUOTE=Skyward;49766108]I never actually heard about this. What ended up being the case?[/QUOTE] It was just a tweet by Toby that was basically "Yes. The guy sitting in a basement eating spaghetti is corrupting the game industry and censoring bad reviews"

Hm, that's a weird reaction. Ok, new idea. Link him a new song, but this time, make sure it's NOT from Undertale. I'm not sure what song you could use, but someone here could think of something. Just make sure it's as close to an objectively great song as you can get. Lie and tell him it's from Undertale. If he refuses to listen to it, tell him he's judging things by association rather than their subjective quality and tell him you lied about what the song's from. Alternatively, you can just be honest. People can start to be introspective about how much of a dick they've been when comparing how others around them are treating them nicely. That is, if you're the kind of person who's nice and he's the kind of person who is even open to new things. If all else fails, just go about arguing like normal. I don't know what other advice to give, I'm not used to giving advice. I would, though, like to see an actual argument about why Undertale is bad that can actually hold its ground because right now, I just can't understand that mindset without a proper argument. The viewpoint that Undertale is a bad game is just too dissonant for me when it's the most powerful game I've ever played. It frustrates me that I still can't understand the mindset of people who don't like the game and I WANT to understand them, but without a proper argument I just can't. I see all these negative reviews and ALL of them that I've seen have held viewpoints that are objectively wrong or as close to objectively wrong as a subjective viewpoint can get. Damnit, someone give me a suggestion for another dog edit. I'm fresh outta ideas. Edit: I can't believe I posted all this:ohno:

Fool proof solution is to give up trying to force him to like it even if you know he's being a ass about the whole thing.

[QUOTE=Sift;49766474]Fool proof solution is to give up trying to force him to like it even if you know he's being a ass about the whole thing.[/QUOTE] Personally, for me, I just want to know why people don't like the game with reasons I can understand. Dissonance is a frustrating thing because it leads to incomplete logical pathways. Don't force him to like it, be nice and try to get some clarification on what parts he doesn't like.

Look, if you're trying to figure out why your friend thinks that way stop going about it in a convoluted way, you're only coming off as trying to convince him to like undertale. Just ask him why he thinks that way. Ask him where he got his information from about toby buying reviews. Maybe he's just trolling :dog:

also kiss him

Taking into consideration what everyone here said and voted, I've decided to type up a rebuttal. I'll post it here to see if anyone can help me flesh it out. [editline]18th February 2016[/editline] [quote]I'm getting the feeling that you were either in a shitty mood when you played Undertale or you didn't get past the Ruins area. [quote]I mean, holy shit. I've played some bad games, but god DAMN this might just take the cake.[/quote] Whether you like or dislike Undertale is one thing, but it is definitely not a bad game. See Day One: Garry's Incident or a number of other objectively bad/unfinished games. Hell, look at Kane and Lynch 2 if you want to see a bad game that's finished. [quote]Never mind the fact that most of its positive critics are in bed with the developer.[/quote] What? This is the first I've heard of this. Toby Fox pretty much kept the production of Undertale under wraps asides from the demo (which was left in the final release mostly unchanged). Citation needed. [quote]Never mind that the developer censors negative reviews.[/quote] Again, source? This is yet again something I hadn't heard of before. [quote]This game is awful. Weak storytelling[/quote] ...I'd have to respectfully disagree with that. Without going into spoilers territory, Undertale takes any expectation that the player might have had and promptly turns them on its head and right from the get-go too. I went into the game expecting a relatively straightforward narrative for a cutesy 2d adventure game, but just like I had when I played Earthbound, I was deeply surprised by some of the twists and turns that the game pulls at the ends of two paths. Asides from that, starting from Snowdin Forest the writing, while not the best I've ever read, had me engaged and invested in the characters until the end. I ended up caring for the characters and their personalities. And thanks to the jarring contrasts of the paths you can take, I learned more of their character making them more... well human is the wrong term, but definitely more believable. Again, I'm getting the vibe that you didn't even exit the Ruins. [quote]broken gameplay,[/quote] Unless you've run into some rare glitch or bug that has indubitably sullied your gameplay experience, the gameplay is definitely [i]not[/i] broken. You might not enjoy the bullet-hell battle system, the puzzles, or some other facet of the gameplay, but you can't call it broken without pointing to some rare bug. [quote]bleak and uninteresting graphics (even for 8-bit),[/quote] This is subjective and I can't really argue your point since everyone has their own preferences when it comes to visuals. I myself as a former sprite artist actually admire some of the later visuals that the game throws at you, mostly because it does something different from what you've come to expect it. I'll grant you that the early work visuals, particularly the Ruins since they hadn't been updated significantly with the rest of the game are unimpressive. Again though this is purely personal taste. [quote]crappy music...[/quote] I am now 99% sure that you haven't left the Ruins, because [i]hoo boy[/i] a LOT of people would disagree with you on that one, [i]vehemently.[/i] Asides from [I]Home[/I], the Ruins tracks are functional if not impressive, although I like all of them. In fact, while the aesthetics received the most legitimate criticism that was leveled at the game, the soundtrack is universally praised. There are a few definite 'not-great' songs, but for every one there are like ten great songs. I can tell you that people went for [i]months[/i] listening to the game's OST and its remixes without tiring. Hell, there are people who're still going at it. While I wouldn't call Toby Fox a musical genius, he definitely has a talent in composition as it is something that he has built upon for ~10 years of his life, and it shows. Hell, the first I've heard of Undertale was through its soundtrack which prompted me to buy the OST first. And shortly before listening beyond [i]Bonetrousle[/i] I was convinced by my friends' recommendation of the game to buy it. And you know what? 20€ got me a whole lot of mileage from the game [i]and[/i] the soundtrack. Again, I can maybe see people disliking [i]Your Best Friend[/i], [i]Unnecessary Tension[/i] and [i]Enemy Approaching[/i] due to their 8-bit tune style. Heck, I can understand if people aren't enthused by [i]Ruins[/i] or by [i]Fallen Down[/i], but I'm hard-pressed to imagine someone genuinely disliking [i]Hopes and Dreams[/i] or [i]Death by Glamour[/i]. I just can't. [quote]How did this get so popular? [/quote] Because it's a breath of fresh air when it comes to what it does as a game. While it might not have the technical fidelity nor the production values of big name studio games, it does a lot of things right and a lot of unexpected things. This is easily the first and (currently) only game where your choices matter and really define the story. And the game will constantly remind you of that. If you're not someone who dislikes Undertale just for the sake of it, I'd like to know why you didn't enjoy the game, as I'm legitimately curious.[/quote]

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49765989]So a friend of mine posted a rather blunt blog post (which I am [I]not[/I] going to link here because I don't want idiots going to him and harass) stating why he didn't think Undertal was too hot. I can't tell if he's being contrarian for the sake of it or he legit hates the game because this is how he expresses his opinion. Should I try to post a legitimate rebuttal on his post? Informative for yes, Useful for no and ignore it, or Late for me to call him an idiot and leave it at that.[/QUOTE] Eh... Undertale isn't going to be considered universality good by everyone, and it's perfectly OK for people to not like it so long as they aren't dicks about it. Conversely it's OK for people to like things so long as they aren't dicks about people who don't like it, as I've said before it's another iteration of the whole obnoxious brony/furry/homestuck/Steven universe/etc... thing that crops up every so often. You get a thing that's somewhat popular and of course people want to discuss it, other people do not and when things spill from one discussion zone into the next people tend to get annoyed. For example MGS/Undertale crossover art often gets a bad reaction when posted in the MGS thread, even when it's more MGS joke than undertale joke. The issue lies in that when someone points out "Hey can you not mess up the thread with this thing that we don't like" the poster tends to go "What's wrong with thing?" to which the thread goer replies "Nothing it's just this ain't the place for it." Then what happens is the poster will often play the "It's fine to not like it, stop being a dick about it!" card and play the victim as if THEY never did anything wrong. Which is somewhat ironic as they end up being a dick about liking it and being inflammatory to anyone who dare speak out against them. The end result it people start to associate 'thing' with cancerous people and make sweeping judgements over the fanbase and thus pass judgement 'thing' itself without even knowing what it even is. [URL="http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF020-Skub.gif"](Reminds me somewhat of an old PBF comic that still has relevance today)[/URL] In the end people who've never encountered 'thing', or even seen evidence of the so called cancerous fanbase in action will make up supposed 'factual points' in order to validate their standpoint when really they are just bandwagoning. heck back when I used to admin the old FPUK tf2 server [I](dark DARK times...)[/I] there used to be a massive issue over MLP. It started innocently enough, bronies would micspam songs from the show ad-nauseam till we asked them to stop. "Whats wrong with MLP?" "Nothing it's just you've played the same damn song 20 times now, enough is enough." "You're just hating it because you've never seen it!" Of course this fractured the playerbase, people targeting and going after the micspammers... then anyone who sprayed MLP themed sprays and then anyone with so much as an MLP avatar. You had medics refusing to heal anyone with a brony avatar and then people would stack join the enemy team just to kill anyone with a brony avatar. It reached the point where one round the bronies would be an issue, and then the other it would be the anti-bronies. Then came the inevitable false flag trolls who would shit up the place by pretending to be obnoxious bronies... But it's the same song and dance year in year out, anytime something becoems this kind of popular it's polarizing, and will breed drama, and attract those that feed off said drama, so it was, so it is, so it shall always be. As for your friend, I mean this DOES seem a little like obvious baiting, I hoesntly doubt he's being serious when he's literally just saying the exact opposite of what most people list as the games strengths. In any case, just leave him to it, if he comes after you personally with a [I]"DUDE OMG how the fukl doo u like undertale?"[/I] then just tell him bluntly that you "found it fun" if he presses the issue tell him "Is it really worth getting mad at me over? I'm not ever gonna make you play it." and ignore his angry rantings from then onwards.

[QUOTE=thisguy123;49766739]Words[/QUOTE] I remember those dark, dark days of FPUKTF2, although I didn't recall it being [I]that[/I] bad. Regardless, I'm not even upset about him not liking the game. What I just want to know is [I]why[/I] he doesn't like it.

I mean of course there's people out there that don't like Undertale, the game is not for everyone, like everything in life. But like 90% of the time they say some stale opinions and stuff like "X is popular/tumblr" or "I don't like it because i don't like it therefore respect muh opinion" while the other 10% does say constructive stuff. Just look at what he said there [QUOTE]I'm not gonna listen to that because it's from Undertale. everything I heard before sucked so its guaranteed to suck as well.[/QUOTE] Assumptions. I mean when I saw my friends playing it the day it released I didn't paid much attention to it and just thought of it as just another indie game. And now i'm having a Toriel avatar and being the OP of this thread lmao

It really bothers me that the ruins doesn't leave a strong enough first impression. People going into Undertale with the mentality that it's "over-hyped" and all that won't last very long. I've been trying to get some of my friends to try the game, and many of them who went in skeptics hardly made it past the ruins before becoming disinterested, and it's a shame, really. I think many fans would agree that the ruins is easily the weakest part of the game, as it's the only part where random encounters are noticeable, the music is weakest and the visuals are functional at best until Home. None of my friends that I told "it gets better and better as you go" really seemed to believe me, honestly. It really is such a shame the beginning lacks a powerful hook. Hell, one friend of mine who did manage to get to the neutral end seems hesitant to try the other endings. He's already "beat the game" and his experience with alternate endings in other games is discouraging him doing it all again, because he doesn't believe me when I tell him it's worth it. He sees value in objective elements like "How many new bosses are there? New areas?" etc. Except that this is a rare case where objective amounts of content aren't really why you're playing it in the first place. I don't know about everyone else, but the moment I realized I really enjoyed the game wasn't when I finished the neutral ending, but when I did the pacifist/genocide routes. It bothers me now when I see people who say they "finished the game and still don't get it" because every time I see that comment, I can't help but fear they didn't actually finish all the main endings, or at least not pacifist, because other games that do it wrong have conditioned them to believe it isn't anything special. The neutral final boss is an interesting end and all, but it doesn't leave the same impact as the others.

[QUOTE=Morthanius;49766945]It really bothers me that the ruins doesn't leave a strong enough first impression. People going into Undertale with the mentality that it's "over-hyped" and all that won't last very long. I've been trying to get some of my friends to try the game, and many of them who went in skeptics hardly made it past the ruins before becoming disinterested, and it's a shame, really. I think many fans would agree that the ruins is easily the weakest part of the game, as it's the only part where random encounters are noticeable, the music is weakest and the visuals are functional at best until Home. None of my friends that I told "it gets better and better as you go" really seemed to believe me, honestly. It really is such a shame the beginning lacks a powerful hook. Hell, one friend of mine who did manage to get to the neutral end seems hesitant to try the other endings. He's already "beat the game" and his experience with alternate endings in other games is discouraging him doing it all again, because he doesn't believe me when I tell him it's worth it. He sees value in objective elements like "How many new bosses are there? New areas?" etc. Except that this is a rare case where objective amounts of content aren't really why you're playing it in the first place. I don't know about everyone else, but the moment I realized I really enjoyed the game wasn't when I finished the neutral ending, but when I did the pacifist/genocide routes. It bothers me now when I see people who say they "finished the game and still don't get it" because every time I see that comment, I can't help but fear they didn't actually finish all the main endings, or at least not pacifist, because other games that do it wrong have conditioned them to believe it isn't anything special. The neutral final boss is an interesting end and all, but it doesn't leave the same impact as the others.[/QUOTE] Whats funny is that I personally believe that the Ruins being so conventionally boring might have been the entire point At no other point in the game are you thrown into SO MANY seemingly 'random' encounters of the exact same enemy, it feels extremely bog standard and showcases almost nothing of what the game is about until the very end. [sp]I feel its almost specifically designed to lull you into the standard 'pokemon' or 'final fantasy' attitude, you kill everything you meet and just go along for the ride until the game is over, that is until you kill Toriel and things start to drastically take a turn for the worse when you continue that behavior, as if the Ruins represent every RPG ever, and as soon as you leave that safe little tutorial haven, you get slapped in the face with the reality of the game. I may be grasping at nothing, but I noticed an extreme perspective shift the minute I entered Toriel's house, it was at that moment I knew something was different, something was wrong, there are subtle clues left everywhere as to the greater narrative that house was a part of, something the rest of the Ruins was entirely devoid of.[/sp] [sp] Something else, I think the fact that the best and most poignant endings are hidden behind so many variables was also very deliberate. If you never pick up on the message that isn't just pokemon with bullet hell mechanics, and that there's something deeper to discover here, then you'll never discover it. You'll probably kill flowey and never understand who he was or how he came to be, never date anyone and get insight into their character, never have papyrus and undyne spout amazing banter over the phone, never learn of alphys' dark secret, and ultimately leave with the impression that it was just another RPG. Funnily enough, that might have been exactly what Chara wanted, and what Flowey fought so hard to stop.[/sp]

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49766825]I remember those dark, dark days of FPUKTF2, although I didn't recall it being [I]that[/I] bad. [/QUOTE] I kinda got into a general rant there about this sort of thing, also the whole TF2 thing was kinda bad on my end because I had to try and admin that shit... I think the long and short of it is whatever reason he has for not liking it will be buried under a mish-mash of generalisations, made up pre-conceptions and other ways he can find to justify his apparent unpopular opinion as much as possible. And from his perspective he's got all these people jumping down his throat at all times about something he simply does not care about and when he speaks out some people (probably not you) make him feel like an arsehole for not being part of the herd which just furthers the perpetual anger engine. Best thing to do is gently ask him what he doesn't like, listen to his response and respond with a polite "Ok, I guess it's not for everyone" and end it at that. If they are your friend it's best not to press the issue as you might be inadvertently annoying them without knowing it, even if you try to go in with an utterly neutral and logical approach.

[QUOTE=bloboo;49767126]When one of my friends beat Undertale's neutral ending, he said that [sp]because it tried to have another boss outdo an already hyped up, really well done boss battle it kinda fumbled at it and just dragged the game down and I honestly would have to agree.[/sp] It kinda turned him off of the game again after he liked the rest of it, I told him the other 2 routes are what really make the game special and now hes gonna wait a while before he does those. I swear to god if he ruins the pacifist route for himself in one way or another I'm never going to stop harassing him about his secret repressed feelings for mettaton[/QUOTE] [sp]I disagree. I think how different the Flowey fight was makes it not drag the game down.[/sp]

Random question, if I were to make a "comic" series like StoryShift, which AU should it be? Agree: Underswap Disagree: Underfell Useful: Other Currently these two AUs would be something I'd be interested in.

[QUOTE=ILLUMM;49767297]Random question, if I were to make a "comic" series like StoryShift, which AU should it be? Agree: Underswap Disagree: Underfell Useful: Other Currently these two AUs would be something I'd be interested in.[/QUOTE] Gonna push my silly "Revolver Ocelot as the human with the gun" idea one last time.

Do your own thing! Be yourself! BE AWESOME!

[QUOTE=ILLUMM;49767297]Random question, if I were to make a "comic" series like StoryShift, which AU should it be? Agree: Underswap Disagree: Underfell Useful: Other Currently these two AUs would be something I'd be interested in.[/QUOTE] Undynetale pls

[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;49766825]Regardless, I'm not even upset about him not liking the game. What I just want to know is [I]why[/I] he doesn't like it.[/QUOTE] Man, he doesn't like it because he [i]wants[/i] to hate it. Until he gets over his hateboner you're wasting ammunition on this guy.