[QUOTE=DatGman;49683148][video=youtube;8APT7XURgZQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APT7XURgZQ[/video][/QUOTE]
When the vocals started I had [I]chills.[/I]
My heart
My heart is done after that video
Not really an Asgore update, but have a collage of the little doodles [url=https://facepunch.com/member.php?u=424596]Midkey[/url] sent me in between modeling Toriel and Asgore.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2t32hu7.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=RetaDepa;49683602]Not really an Asgore update, but have a collage of the little doodles [url=https://facepunch.com/member.php?u=424596]Midkey[/url] sent me in between modeling Toriel and Asgore.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/2t32hu7.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/7c437ddd76151b6c0adef53658164116.png[/img]
You like butterscotch, don't you Frisk?
[QUOTE=DatGman;49683148][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APT7XURgZQ"]Pacifist spoilers[/URL][/QUOTE]
That's great and all, but Alphys was supposedly at the door outside for the entire duration of Mettaton's fight, she couldn't have been in a pub/bar/whatever watching them
I'll go with the bittersweet ending crowd, but that's mostly because I prefer endings where not everything is set straight and leaves you... Hurting.
[QUOTE=red_pharoah;49683738]That's great and all, but Alphys was supposedly at the door outside for the entire duration of Mettaton's fight, she couldn't have been in a pub/bar/whatever watching them[/QUOTE]
Sans showed her a shortcut :v:
I know I said this a bunch but there are some newer people so fuck it.
I still maintain that [sp]Asriel got a happy ending, and that you did "save" him. You allowed him to feel again, however briefly, you allowed him to realize how monstrous he was becoming, and he finally came to terms with his own death and the death of his closest friend. You gave him closure.[/sp]
For a game like Undertale, bittersweetness was a bit called for, in my opinion, to keep the story grounded.
Now from a somewhat meta standpoint we could say that [sp]Even if Asriel COULD be saved he would not LET himself be saved, after all they said it themselves, he knows its a game and he knows if you can't get your 'perfect ending' you'll keep coming back. Even if you could find a way, he won't let you, just so you'll never leave this game to rot in your steam library. Heck by doing a true reset to play the game again, you play right into his hands and do the exact thing he wanted to do in the first place.[/sp]
But if we were to [sp]save Asriel[/sp] it would have to be something REALLY heart wrenching to make up for it.
Perhaps something to the tune of [sp]In order to give him a soul someone else has to die most likely Toriel... but here's the kicker, after explaining the situation to them they would of course agree to sacrifice themselves to save their son, but you have to kill them personally. We all know that damage is based on willingness to hurt, and of course by this point you don't want to hurt your friends, so you deal pitiful damage to them... in order to save Asriel you have to attack Toriel again and again and again... Every time they encourage you to keep going, they try to convince you that you're doing the right thing and each time you deal less and less damage in an inversion of the usual mechanics. Perhaps even partway through Asriel gets wind of this and tries to stop you, BEGGING you not to kill her. The end result is in order to save your favourite character you had to kill another and now he hates you for it and everyone else is none too impressed that you just killed someone, even if it was to 'save' another. After all, why does Asriel get to live while another dies? Who has that right? and was it worth it in the end?"[/sp]
Of course in practise it'll be hard, if not IMPOSSIBLE to plot it out properly, as much as I'd LIKE a little more closure, I feel it would set more questions that it would answer and ultimately be unsatisfying. While it's fun to speculate and all, I kinda hope Toby sticks to his guns and actually makes use of the one time the 'artistic integrity' card can be played legitimately.
I don't think that [sp]anybody in-universe is completely aware that they're in a game... Some of them have a basic grasp on the mechanics through what they can observe but I don't think any of them go so far as to fully realize they're fictional characters in a video game. Imagine that real life was a video game, and god was the person playing. You would of course have no way of absolutely knowing, you can never step outside the closed system in order to observe it as a video game, but you might be able detect and measure some of the ramifications of that. To Sans, it's time travel. To Flowey, it's just this weird magic thing that everyone can do. To Alphys, it would be science and related to determination. Only to the player is it a video game.[/sp]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49684238]I don't think that [sp]anybody in-universe is completely aware that they're in a game... Some of them have a basic grasp on the mechanics through what they can observe but I don't think any of them go so far as to fully realize they're fictional characters in a video game. Imagine that real life was a video game, and god was the person playing. You would of course have no way of absolutely knowing, you can never step outside the closed system in order to observe it as a video game, but you might be able detect and measure some of the ramifications of that. To Sans, it's time travel. To Flowey, it's just this weird magic thing that everyone can do. To Alphys, it would be science and related to determination. Only to the player is it a video game.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Except maybe gaster
Maybe
[QUOTE=thisguy123;49684203]Now from a somewhat meta standpoint we could say that [sp]Even if Asriel COULD be saved he would not LET himself be saved, after all they said it themselves, he knows its a game and he knows if you can't get your 'perfect ending' you'll keep coming back. Even if you could find a way, he won't let you, just so you'll never leave this game to rot in your steam library. Heck by doing a true reset to play the game again, you play right into his hands and do the exact thing he wanted to do in the first place.[/sp]
But if we were to [sp]save Asriel[/sp] it would have to be something REALLY heart wrenching to make up for it.
Perhaps something to the tune of [sp]In order to give him a soul someone else has to die most likely Toriel... but here's the kicker, after explaining the situation to them they would of course agree to sacrifice themselves to save their son, but you have to kill them personally. We all know that damage is based on willingness to hurt, and of course by this point you don't want to hurt your friends, so you deal pitiful damage to them... in order to save Asriel you have to attack Toriel again and again and again... Every time they encourage you to keep going, they try to convince you that you're doing the right thing and each time you deal less and less damage in an inversion of the usual mechanics. Perhaps even partway through Asriel gets wind of this and tries to stop you, BEGGING you not to kill her. The end result is in order to save your favourite character you had to kill another and now he hates you for it and everyone else is none too impressed that you just killed someone, even if it was to 'save' another. After all, why does Asriel get to live while another dies? Who has that right? and was it worth it in the end?"[/sp]
Of course in practise it'll be hard, if not IMPOSSIBLE to plot it out properly, as much as I'd LIKE a little more closure, I feel it would set more questions that it would answer and ultimately be unsatisfying. While it's fun to speculate and all, I kinda hope Toby sticks to his guns and actually makes use of the one time the 'artistic integrity' card can be played legitimately.[/QUOTE]
idk why people believe that [sp]saving Asriel has to be this big heartwrenching thing, have you forgotten the fact that the game already does this to you? If I had to write a way for Asriel to be saved it would likely be in the format of a book, because the game does enough.[/sp]
[sp]Saving him would be difficult, but the real challenge would be ACTUALLY saving him, I mean integrating him back into a society that he previously murdered hundreds of times over, helping him get to grips with his brand new conscience that will probably be torturing him for what he did, and making sure that the hard work that went into saving him doesnt end with him jumping off a cliff somewhere thanks to being broken by a flood of new emotions he probably won't be able to deal with. It would be a life-time commitment to make sure that this evil god turned fragile child stays in one piece without descending into crippling depression, getting lynched by those less understanding, or something worse still.[/sp]
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;49684238]I don't think that [sp]anybody in-universe is completely aware that they're in a game... Some of them have a basic grasp on the mechanics through what they can observe but I don't think any of them go so far as to fully realize they're fictional characters in a video game. Imagine that real life was a video game, and god was the person playing. You would of course have no way of absolutely knowing, you can never step outside the closed system in order to observe it as a video game, but you might be able detect and measure some of the ramifications of that. To Sans, it's time travel. To Flowey, it's just this weird magic thing that everyone can do. To Alphys, it would be science and related to determination. Only to the player is it a video game.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]During the True Pacifist final boss he explicitly states that 'this is a GAME' and how you'll 'keep playing over and over to get your perfect ending' now you might argue that he might be under the principle of "this is all a game to him" but I think it's pretty clear what he means.[/sp]
[QUOTE=thisguy123;49684203]But if we were to [sp]save Asriel[/sp] it would have to be something REALLY heart wrenching to make up for it.
Perhaps something to the tune of [sp]In order to give him a soul someone else has to die most likely Toriel... but here's the kicker, after explaining the situation to them they would of course agree to sacrifice themselves to save their son, but you have to kill them personally. We all know that damage is based on willingness to hurt, and of course by this point you don't want to hurt your friends, so you deal pitiful damage to them... in order to save Asriel you have to attack Toriel again and again and again... Every time they encourage you to keep going, they try to convince you that you're doing the right thing and each time you deal less and less damage in an inversion of the usual mechanics. Perhaps even partway through Asriel gets wind of this and tries to stop you, BEGGING you not to kill her. The end result is in order to save your favourite character you had to kill another and now he hates you for it and everyone else is none too impressed that you just killed someone, even if it was to 'save' another. After all, why does Asriel get to live while another dies? Who has that right? and was it worth it in the end?"[/sp].[/QUOTE]
I think that could work, actually. Being that the game remembers what you did (unless you True Reset), and in a way the fallen child remembers previous runs, maybe this time around [sp]Frisk could actually take Toriel's soul this time, rather than stand there slack-jawed and heartbroken as she splinters and faces oblivion. And when you make that long walk through the Ruins Exit, you would see Flowey, he'd get halfway through giving that "you killed her" speech, then the battle screen would pop up, and you'd have one chance to go to your Items and use Toriel's Soul. By shoving it down Flowey's gullet. Cue Flowey starting to freak out, triggering a boss fight that involves dodging tears and trying to calm him down. They eventually do calm down, but shortly afterwards they run away. After that the game proceeds (roughly) as normal, but Flowey pops up more often and can even be talked to this time. Throughout the run, they progress from tearful and resentful, saying that they "didn't deserve this" after all they had done, to gradually coming to terms with their newfound compassion, while still hating you for what you did to Toriel.
Alternatively, Frisk could snatch Asgore's soul before Flowey deals the final blow during the Asgore battle, having known this moment was about to happen, and hold onto the King's power during the Omega Flowey fight. Once you have the opportunity to finish Flowey off, the Item icon appears alongside the Fight and Mercy icons, allowing you to give Asgore's soul to Flowey. Cue Flowey breaking down in tears, overwhelmed by his murderous actions, and you'd fight one last "fight" where you try to stop the emotional wreck of a flower-kid from killing themselves. You manage to get him to stop, but it is implied that now Frisk will have to take very close care of their "best friend" to make sure he doesn't do anything rash, convincing them that, as Flowey, they were not themselves. Whether that be a convenient truth or a convincing white lie, is open to interpretation, though it'd still echo what Asriel told you at the flowerbed in a timeline distant yet near.[/sp]
[URL="https://insaneintherainmusic.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-grillbys"]Official jazz album by Insaneintherainmusic is finally released![/URL]
[video=youtube;-dqNTubnV1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqNTubnV1k[/video]
[QUOTE=M3l0m4ni4c;49684482][URL="https://insaneintherainmusic.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-grillbys"]Official jazz album by Insaneintherainmusic is finally released![/URL]
[video=youtube;-dqNTubnV1k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqNTubnV1k[/video][/QUOTE]
Damn, this guy is pretty good. Can't believe I've never heard of him before.
[sp]I have a feeling that some how there is away to save Asirel.
But it will never appear in game -or at least this game if there is to be a sequel or spinoff game- as it would just break the flow of the game itself, as has been said previously it will just make things all the more convoluted and complex which are two things that are thankfully absent from the main game itself.
Its a fine, well oiled machine; two distinct paths that feel natural and unlaboured that lead to two clear end points, there is no complex set of prerequisites to earn the best ending. You just do as you wish and you get the ending with the appropriate result for your actions.
Image going into this game fresh, no knowledge of the whole "no one has to get hurt thing" that ending that you get is because of your own instinctive choices and not because you did X to activate Y to set up Z, the course of events feel natural for what they are. Even with that prior knowledge you aren't having to break your back to get to where you want to be.
Whenever I see theories or ideas as to how to save Asriel they are -no offence to anyone- convoluted and overly melodramatic.
TO SAVE ASRIEL YOU MUST GIVE THE HEART OF THE ONE YOU LOVE! CAN YOU KILL THE ONE YOU LOVE?! HOW DARE YOU THAT IS MEAN! THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION IN THE GAME!! THIS WILL STICK WITH YOU FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!
Or its the complex, nuanced, time space bending journey making you do a series of ornate tasks to set into motion events that through the sheer weight and number of tasks undertaken lose any real emotional impact. Two things that fly in the face of the very nature of the game. Yes it is emotional, but that is because it presented you with a situation that you didn't expect; whenever you play games with a pacifism angle everyone lives! Everyone is redeemed! You win!
Not here, the person that needs redemption does not get it and never will, they were an unwitting pawn in a greater game and it hurts you because you want to save everyone, to do what is right. And not for an achievement or a high score but because it is really the right thing to do.
So then we find ourselves coming up with these ideas and theories where we second guess the end result, the conclusion of that is that there is no surprise but one we expect with stakes we are willing meet. Any saving Asriel scenario that were to happen would happen in a way we wouldn't otherwise expect. That would be as result of actions we did not foresee and as a result would then mean something to us. As that is the way the game worked, that is the reason why we are here talking about it, why we share fan art, jokes, animations, comics because we played the game and it means something to us for whatever reason, be it just as a fun game or something more meaningful.
Maybe there is a way to save Asriel, maybe there isn't. But if there is it will happen in its own time and in a way that stays true to the nature of the game itself.[/sp]
[sp]Being unable to save Asriel wouldn't even bother me if he were actually dead, but he isn't. He's STILL ALIVE. He's RIGHT THERE. Saving him could be as easy as waiting for a human/monster to kick the bucket and borrowing their soul. Hell, NOBODY in this game seems to be straight-up dead. Gaster still seems to exist in some form or another, somewhere. The Six Human Souls still have some semblance of life/sentience (Actually, what happened to them, anyway? Did Asriel just put them back in the jars?). Even the First Fallen still exists as some sort of ghost or presence and could be brought back, if you're in the group that believes they're redeemable.
None of these fuckers are actually dead and it drives me crazy because there's still a possibility that they could all live again. It doesn't do a whole lot for closure.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Magmacow358;49685044][sp]Being unable to save Asriel wouldn't even bother me if he were actually dead, but he isn't. He's STILL ALIVE. He's RIGHT THERE. Saving him could be as easy as waiting for a human/monster to kick the bucket and borrowing their soul. Hell, NOBODY in this game seems to be straight-up dead. Gaster still seems to exist in some form or another, somewhere. The Six Human Souls still have some semblance of life/sentience (Actually, what happened to them, anyway? Did Asriel just put them back in the jars?). Even the First Fallen still exists as some sort of ghost or presence and could be brought back, if you're in the group that believes they're redeemable.
None of these fuckers are actually dead and it drives me crazy because there's still a possibility that they could all live again. It doesn't do a whole lot for closure.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]bruh he's dead. his soul is gone. it's just a flower with his dust-memories activated by some determination[/sp]
[QUOTE=ElderLolz;49685078]We could always sacrifice Jerry to open the barrier.[/QUOTE]
I don't think the barrier would want anything to do with Jerry either, so that wouldn't be of much use. :v:
I'm really enjoying this jazz album
[QUOTE=Magmacow358;49685044][sp]Being unable to save Asriel wouldn't even bother me if he were actually dead, but he isn't. He's STILL ALIVE. He's RIGHT THERE. Saving him could be as easy as waiting for a human/monster to kick the bucket and borrowing their soul. Hell, NOBODY in this game seems to be straight-up dead. Gaster still seems to exist in some form or another, somewhere. The Six Human Souls still have some semblance of life/sentience (Actually, what happened to them, anyway? Did Asriel just put them back in the jars?). Even the First Fallen still exists as some sort of ghost or presence and could be brought back, if you're in the group that believes they're redeemable.
None of these fuckers are actually dead and it drives me crazy because there's still a possibility that they could all live again. It doesn't do a whole lot for closure.[/sp][/QUOTE]
True. It's reasonable to have it be actually impossible to save someone, but when you have a game that enables you to go back and remembers that you've done so, on top of their being evidence as to how that character could potentially be saved, it doesn't just make me sad. It makes me annoyed, since we COULD do something for them if we just stayed determined, whether or not that's "right" or "wrong".
If there was absolutely no way to save [sp]Asriel[/sp], as in if so many of the game's lore aspects were not there at all, I could accept that and move on. But I'm sorry, when [sp]Asriel's compassion was returned and sustained by the presence of monster souls, when Alphys' wild DT experiments yielded a living breathing "Lordvessel" that we call Flowey, when Sans is indeed quite aware (though not perfectly) of the time-fuckery going on as we save, load and reset, and when it is implied that the power of the Core was great enough to scatter someone across time and space, there is still hope. Not to mention, Frisk is very determined for a 9 year old. And if you took all of that away, it would remove so much from the game.
So like it or not, the science is there for us to save Goatkid. And with enough determination, Frisk could probably do it. They have the technology. Through many MANY runs they could gather the information they needed, they could convince the two "doctors" to work together, regardless of the notion that saving Asriel would somehow invalidate the whole narrative because the ending wouldn't be bitter enough for some people's liking. The kid's fucked up enough as it is, so having him face the people he killed over and over again, much like Frisk woulda had to in order to learn part of the greater secret, would certainly be pretty damn bitter. Knowing that even though he won't revert to being a sociopathic flower again, he'll probably never be "normal" again even with friends supporting him, that'd be a bittersweet pill to pop twice a day. THERE'S your "bitterscotch" for ya. It might not have cost many lives, but it would certainly have cost three (four if we count Chara) children their innocence and sanity. That in itself's a heavy price to pay.[/sp]
[IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/306611821587120818/17B87FE2DB056594CEC95F577FEB5A4A4A2246C2/[/IMG]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617161924[/url]
Hit and miss in my opinion.
[QUOTE=ILLUMM;49685324][IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/306611821587120818/17B87FE2DB056594CEC95F577FEB5A4A4A2246C2/[/IMG]
[URL]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617161924[/URL]
Hit and miss in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
it looks like shit
[QUOTE=ILLUMM;49685324][IMG]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/306611821587120818/17B87FE2DB056594CEC95F577FEB5A4A4A2246C2/[/IMG]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=617161924[/url]
Hit and miss in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Oh, it's from [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=569779433"]that[/URL] guy. (Pacifist spoilers)
It looks better than the [sp]Asriel[/sp] model, it still seems off to me.
Yikes, I wish I didn't know who [U]that[/U] guy was. It only makes me wish for a better [sp]Asriel[/sp] model, preferably from the user who did that fine Toriel model.
Here's a lil drawing i've been working on for the past few days.
[t]http://40.media.tumblr.com/dcfc1e1030f313bd1554d7c02d34e2fd/tumblr_o25a4hSVb01sv2kmyo1_1280.png[/t]
[URL="http://datgmann.tumblr.com/post/138813063632/i-dont-think-ive-ever-properly-finished-a"]Tumblr[/URL]
[QUOTE=salty peanut v2;49685065][sp]bruh he's dead. his soul is gone. it's just a flower with his dust-memories activated by some determination[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp] hes pretty lively and personable for someone who is just a collection of 'dust-memories' [/sp]
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Undertale megathread v5 - An award-winning RPG where nobody has to get SPOILERS. YES, that STILL inc
