[QUOTE=JoonazL;50939054]Mccree doesn't really do anything but left click enemy players. He's really good at dealing damage and doesn't do much else. I see why pros pick him so much, he's just really reliable damage.[/QUOTE]
he probably has the worst set of skills in the game, so a nerf to his left click puts him back into "well just everything about this character is terrible"
what i think could be cool is if they changed high noon to scale the time to kill based on distance rather than health - because at the moment, the most effective way of using the ult is to stand as far away as possible and use it, which doesn't fit his toolkit and doesn't fit his character
if you make it so that the ult is quicker at point blank, it might be a cool ult to use in a tense gunfight
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50939059]is it also complete coincidence that the primary people i see complaining about zarya in this thread all happen to have d.va avatars[/QUOTE]
I just want to be able to play D.Va in comp sometimes.
I already went through this shit with Pharah.
She's in every single game forever, I dont even pick D.Va to instigate it most of the time.
[QUOTE=Sweater;50939045]Because McCree's design is shit gameplay wise. If you decide to nerf his left click damage, he becomes awful. His roll is only meant to reload, he has awful mobility. They already balanced his right click which initially was OP to terrible (now it's fine, good enough to kill squishies but not instant kill to tanks and still good to break up shields).
He is not the problem now.[/QUOTE]
Oh he's a problem when you realize he's the counter answer to a good chunk of the roster, with no one who does the same to him.
I mean he's the hard counter to:
Genji
Tracer
Reaper
Pharah
Mei
Winston
Reinhardt
Symmetra
I can't even really think of a class he'd actively struggle with. Maybe widowmaker, I guess?
[QUOTE=Oizen;50939070]I just want to be able to play D.Va in comp sometimes.
I already went through this shit with Pharah.
She's in every single game forever, I dont even pick D.Va to instigate it most of the time.
Oh he's a problem when you realize he's the counter answer to a good chunk of the roster, with no one who does the same to him.
I mean he's the hard counter to:
Genji
Tracer
Reaper
Pharah
Mei
Winston
Reinhardt
Symmetra
I can't even really think of a class he'd actively struggle with. Maybe widowmaker, I guess?[/QUOTE]
you keep using the word hard counter but the fact that you're saying mccree hard counters symmetra, winston and [I][B]reinhardt[/B][/I] makes me think you have no idea what hard counter actually means
I know it's easy to give me a meme answer but what's the deal with Mei anyway? I never put much thought into it and all I know is that "she was the sole survivor of a ice storm and had to be thawed out by Overwatch."
Like she has sprays of he reading books in a ice cube, one of her abilities is to just freeze herself on the spot what's her deal? Does she suddenly love being in ice and ice has no effect on her?
[QUOTE=Oizen;50939070]
I can't even really think of a class he'd actively struggle with. Maybe widowmaker, I guess?[/QUOTE]
Every tank except Winston will give him problems. He doesn't really counter Reinhardt that hard unless he can somehow just walk up to the shield without being shot. Hanzo should also be fine against him. Zenyatta turns his slow cowboy ass into paper, too.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50939075]you keep using the word hard counter but the fact that you're saying mccree hard counters symmetra, winston and [I][B]reinhardt[/B][/I] makes me think you have no idea what hard counter actually means[/QUOTE]
[B]Reinhardt:[/B]
[I]Don't worry my friends, I am your shield.[/I]
*throw flashbang above shield*
FTH, Teammates will probably capitalize on the rest
The ability to get Reinhardt to drop his shield from standing in front of him is very powerful.
[B]Symmetra:[/B]
Flashbang can take out clusters of Sentries
Flashbang prevents Symmetra from doing the jump and hold M1 thing
Check
[B]Winston:[/B]
Flashbang prevents running around and holding m1
FTH
Hugehitbox
check
Yeah I think I got it right.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50939075]you keep using the word hard counter but the fact that you're saying mccree hard counters symmetra, winston and [I][B]reinhardt[/B][/I] makes me think you have no idea what hard counter actually means[/QUOTE]
He can handle most of those characters pretty easily given just how much damage his headshots do combo'd with his flashbang.
I don't think Pro players think he's balanced either seeing as he has a 100% pick rate with current Zenyatta and if that character is a forced part of the meta then well...
I'd love to see other characters brought up to his level but that would mean walking back a few Genji nerfs as well and we all know how that would go.
[QUOTE=Sift;50939078]I know it's easy to give me a meme answer but what's the deal with Mei anyway? I never put much thought into it and all I know is that "she was the sole survivor of a ice storm and had to be thawed out by Overwatch."
Like she has sprays of he reading books in a ice cube, one of her abilities is to just freeze herself on the spot what's her deal? Does she suddenly love being in ice and ice has no effect on her?[/QUOTE]
Mei, along many others, were hired by Overwatch as climate researchers to deal with the increasingly deadly climate changes and disasters.
Her research point in Antarctica got struct with a polar storm, and the researchers there had to resort to cryo-freezing themselves as their last hope of survival. Mei was the only survivor.
Overwatch disbanded while Mei was still frozen, and when she was eventually rescued, she continued to work on her research alone (though apparently the likely upcoming character Liao might be a partner of hers), where she developed the technology she's using, including the portable AI-controlled climate-manipulator called Snowball.
And then Recall happened, and she's back to her research (she says she hopes to gather valuable data in some games as she spawns) using her tools.
Fin. :v:
Ice actually does have an effect on her, she just doesn't get -completely- frozen when using her Ice Block, she just creates a shell around herself. She survives it thanks to self-generated heat, her coat, etc which are the exact same principles behind an igloo. As for why it heals her, probably nanomachines.
[QUOTE=Oizen;50939091][B]Reinhardt:[/B]
[I]Don't worry my friends, I am your shield.[/I]
*throw flashbang above shield*
FTH, Teammates will probably capitalize on the rest
The ability to get Reinhardt to drop his shield from standing in front of him is very powerful.
[B]Symmetra:[/B]
Flashbang can take out clusters of Sentries
Flashbang prevents Symmetra from doing the jump and hold M1 thing
Check
[B]Winston:[/B]
Flashbang prevents running around and holding m1
FTH
Hugehitbox
check
Yeah I think I got it right.[/QUOTE]
an actual hard counter in this game is pre-patch zenyatta vs pharah, or mccree vs pharah in the same situation, because there is no feasible situation where the pharah can win a 1v1 engagement. the very fact that there is a zenyatta in the GAME prevents someone from playing pharah effectively.
or winston vs genji, because winston is mobile enough to catch genji, has an auto-aim weapon that hits him consistently, and genji can't mitigate his damage like he can with other characters, so the genji's only choice is to run or have backup - everything about winston's kit helps him kill genji
fucking reinhardt?
so you're telling me a hard counter is the fact that mccree has to [I]run out to the front of the shield, at close range of reinhardt so that he can get a 1 second stun, with requires other members of his team to capitalize on?[/I]? it's p.clear that this isn't a hard counter due to the fact that people STILL play reinhardt against teams with mccree. throughout the period where zen-mccree were played, reinhardt was also played BECAUSE reinhardt's shield prevents mccree's m1 from killing squishier characters
you know what happened when an actual hard counter to pharah started being played in every game? [B]pharah stopped being played[/B]
also, you think symmetra is hard countered by mccree because flashbang destroys sentries? does that mean every class in the game hard counters symmetra other than like, mercy?
Also I wonder if Ana would be a more appealing choice if she had some way of self regen on her HP. Zen, Mercy, Sym and Lucio all have a way to just passively recover their own health while taking care of others but she has to blow her gatorade bomb if she wants anything for herself, and even then it's only 100HP refunded to her.
Also I know Sym isn't a healer or anything, just counting supports in general.
[editline]24th August 2016[/editline]
Having a hard counter doesn't mean you instantly win any 1v1 situation automatically yo. McCree vs Pharah is one drastic example true but you're saying that with Reinhardt "McCree needs his team to help him kill the Rein" when it's literally the same way as Rein can't attack with his shield up and needs his team to chase the cowboy off. Soon as he lowers his shield headshot spam starts up or FTH, pick your posion and there's a huge chunk of his HP gone and with a roll he's ready for round 2 to close it out.
Also Symmetra is only ever used for her teleport because everything fucks Symmetra up in high level play, so uh... yeah. She is kind of countered by everyone- even Mercy to a extent if we're just going by sentry wipes seeing as Mercy gets her HP back pretty quickly.
[editline]24th August 2016[/editline]
Pharah has my favorite design but I think she's a bad example because she's a insanely weak and poorly thought out character in general. I feel like fucking anything invalidates her due to her crawling baby air speed and low hp pool.
Like that lady seriously needs a rework in general be it a speed adjustment, more mobility options to help her survive flying around in the air with no cover, more damaging attacks I don't know. I wanna use her so often but everyone with a few IQ cells can just aim up and ping me out of the sky even with a PS4 controller restricting them.
[QUOTE=Sift;50939125]Having a hard counter doesn't mean you instantly win any 1v1 situation automatically yo. McCree vs Pharah is one drastic example true but you're saying that with Reinhardt "McCree needs his team to help him kill the Rein" when it's literally the same way as Rein can't attack with his shield up and needs his team to chase the cowboy off. Soon as he lowers his shield headshot spam starts up or FTH, pick your posion and there's a huge chunk of his HP gone and with a roll he's ready for round 2 to close it out.
Also Symmetra is only ever used for her teleport because everything fucks Symmetra up in high level play, so uh... yeah. She is kind of countered by everyone- even Mercy to a extent if we're just going by sentry wipes seeing as Mercy gets her HP back pretty quickly.[/QUOTE]
then the term hard counter is just totally meaningless
reinhardt is great against mccree because it prevents him from getting easy picks of the squishier characters that can hide behind the rectangle
if mccree hard counters winston and reinhardt, why are winston and reinhardt frequently played in a meta that has an enormous pickrate of mccree
not to mention that the logic of "well he can just flashbang and FTH" is logic that works with every character in the game, but theory does not mean this actually happens
and pharah is a victim of the environment, why are people so fixated on "fixing X/Y/Z damage characters" when before the zen/mccree meta, pharah was consistently above half the cast in pick rates, to the point where pharmercy was a competitive staple.
let the meta settle, work out what is overperforming and then make changes, rather than just throwing out nerf after nerf to the point where the meta is a retarded rollercoaster of changes
[QUOTE=Sift;50939078]I know it's easy to give me a meme answer but what's the deal with Mei anyway? I never put much thought into it and all I know is that "she was the sole survivor of a ice storm and had to be thawed out by Overwatch."
Like she has sprays of he reading books in a ice cube, one of her abilities is to just freeze herself on the spot what's her deal? Does she suddenly love being in ice and ice has no effect on her?[/QUOTE]
[quote=Wiki]Mei-Ling Zhou was a member of this multiyear initiative. A peerless climatologist, she had introduced cutting-edge innovations in the field of climate manipulation that protected at-risk areas in Asia and beyond. She was assigned to the program's monitoring station at Watchpoint: Antarctica when disaster struck: a sudden, catastrophic polar storm battered the installation and cut it off from the outside world, leaving the facility damaged and the scientists stranded. As their supplies dwindled, they entered cryostasis in a last-ditch effort to survive until a rescue attempt could be made.
But that rescue never came. It was years later when the team's cryogenics chamber was finally discovered. Mei, still in hibernation, was the only survivor. The world Mei awoke to had gone through considerable changes: Overwatch was no more, the serious climate issues had worsened, and none of the eco-Watchpoints were in operation. Any clues that they had uncovered were lost.
Mei has decided to continue her work on her own. Equipped with a portable version of her climate-manipulation technology, she travels around the world, hoping to re-establish the eco-network and track down the causes of the threats to the planet's ecosystem.[/quote]
Overall pretty sad story, really makes me appreciate Mei despite her annoying as fuck kit.
I think the best trait she has is the fact that despite everything going against her plans, she's still motivated to saving the Planet from climate issues.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50939143]then the term hard counter is just totally meaningless
reinhardt is great against mccree because it prevents him from getting easy picks of the squishier characters that can hide behind the rectangle
if mccree hard counters winston and reinhardt, why are winston and reinhardt frequently played in a meta that has an enormous pickrate of mccree
not to mention that the logic of "well he can just flashbang and FTH" is logic that works with every character in the game, but theory does not mean this actually happens[/QUOTE]
Winston's picked mostly because of his bubble and the fact he can harass healers and usually skitter away perfectly fine. Mercy, Zen and others just kind of crumple to mega monkey and watching some high level play it's usually who he goes after while assault classes try to chase him off. (He also goes after snipers but I have no idea how he does against hanzo after these buffs)
Like I said before Reinhardt is entirely dependent on his team in a fight. If Rein is totally alone he's going to get shit on by almost anyone because all he can do is swing his hammer hoping to scare you away before he resumes blocking. He's picked in comp often because this isn't a problem due to the communication going on, the 1v1 situation just won't happen because his team understands they can't let the big guy go out on his own unless he's nanoboosted and getting supported.
[editline]24th August 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;50939157]Mei Lore[/QUOTE]
I knew most of that but still doesn't quite answer why Mei is now ICE LORD capable of freezing herself in a chunk of ice with no harm whatsoever whenever she wants- let alone heals from it.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50939124]an actual hard counter in this game is pre-patch zenyatta vs pharah, or mccree vs pharah in the same situation, because there is no feasible situation where the pharah can win a 1v1 engagement. the very fact that there is a zenyatta in the GAME prevents someone from playing pharah effectively.
or winston vs genji, because winston is mobile enough to catch genji, has an auto-aim weapon that hits him consistently, and genji can't mitigate his damage like he can with other characters, so the genji's only choice is to run or have backup - everything about winston's kit helps him kill genji
fucking reinhardt?
so you're telling me a hard counter is the fact that mccree has to [I]run out to the front of the shield, at close range of reinhardt so that he can get a 1 second stun, with requires other members of his team to capitalize on?[/I]? it's p.clear that this isn't a hard counter due to the fact that people STILL play reinhardt against teams with mccree. throughout the period where zen-mccree were played, reinhardt was also played BECAUSE reinhardt's shield prevents mccree's m1 from killing squishier characters
you know what happened when an actual hard counter to pharah started being played in every game? [B]pharah stopped being played[/B]
also, you think symmetra is hard countered by mccree because flashbang destroys sentries? does that mean every class in the game hard counters symmetra other than like, mercy?[/QUOTE]
I like how you're telling me that Winston vs Genji is a hard counter, even though you go onto to say Pharah stopped being played as a result of a hard counter, while Genji never did. Thats just pretty inconsistent. Genji is overall more mobile than winston is, or uesd to be thanks to triple jump. Probably will change more after PTR.
For Reinhardt, again.
Yeah I am, but at least the McCree shit can be prevented by Reinhardt's team, I'm not just going to ignore the fact that McCree has the power to make Reinhardt put down the thing that put him in the meta in the first place.
I honestly see this strategy used a lot by teams, and its very deadly for Reinhardt. For someone whos not supposed to bust tanks, he can sure bust tanks. Reinhardt is still played because he can still overall offer something in other situations.
And Symmetra, please learn to read. I specifically said a cluster of sentries,
If Symmetra is doing the Microwave oven strategy, you can just stand outside the doorway and throw a flashbang in, most of those if not all are gone,
You effectively destroyed about a minute of her work in seconds without even going into her trap. This issue is actually made worse by the PTR patch, which increased the hitbox size of Flashbang.
And then gj just ignoring the other half of Symmetra entirely. The part where she holds m1 and dances around people, flashbang has a lot to say about that as well.
Mercy cannot take out clusters of sentries at a time, so I have no idea where you're getting these odd fantasies of yours.
[QUOTE=Sift;50939161]I knew most of that but still doesn't quite answer why Mei is now ICE LORD capable of freezing herself in a chunk of ice with no harm whatsoever whenever she wants- let alone heals from it.[/QUOTE]
Because that's the technology/ability she created, she invented it.
Unrelated to anything but what's with the Olympic voice lines? Just now sitting down and listening to them and half of them sound like completely different people.
I'm pretty sure Mercy's "Piece of Cake!" line has a guy trying to sound feminine for the work "Cake"
[QUOTE=usaokay;50932013]It was a mistake looking up Tracer x Winston ships.
I just didn't know the internet would do [I]that.[/I][/QUOTE]
[t]http://img12.deviantart.net/e699/i/2016/195/9/1/overwatch__tracer_and_winston_by_splashbrush-daa03qq.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Oizen;50939174]I like how you're telling me that Winston vs Genji is a hard counter, even though you go onto to say Pharah stopped being played as a result of a hard counter, while Genji never did. Thats just pretty inconsistent. Genji is overall more mobile than winston is, or uesd to be thanks to triple jump. Probably will change more after PTR.
For Reinhardt, again.
Yeah I am, but at least the McCree shit can be prevented by Reinhardt's team, I'm not just going to ignore the fact that McCree has the power to make Reinhardt put down the thing that put him in the meta in the first place.
I honestly see this strategy used a lot by teams, and its very deadly for Reinhardt. For someone whos not supposed to bust tanks, he can sure bust tanks. Reinhardt is still played because he can still overall offer something in other situations.
And Symmetra, please learn to read. I specifically said a cluster of sentries,
If Symmetra is doing the Microwave oven strategy, you can just stand outside the doorway and throw a flashbang in, most of those if not all are gone,
You effectively destroyed about a minute of her work in seconds without even going into her trap. This issue is actually made worse by the PTR patch, which increased the hitbox size of Flashbang.
And then gj just ignoring the other half of Symmetra entirely. The part where she holds m1 and dances around people, flashbang has a lot to say about that as well.
Mercy cannot take out clusters of sentries at a time, so I have no idea where you're getting these odd fantasies of yours.[/QUOTE]
so you say that mccree counters the microwave oven strategy by using flashbang to destroy all the sentries, and then you say that he defeats symmetra by using flashbang
the skill has a cooldown, also, the microwave oven strategy is shit
and once again, you've described almost every character in the game - nearly everyone has a way of destroying these nests other than mercy (please read the post again, i was making exactly the point you just said) - so if you're saying that's a hard counter, then everyone other than mercy and maybe a couple of others don't hard counter her
so you're telling me that competitive teams run reinhardt DESPITE the fact that mccree hard counters them, and they run winston DESPITE the fact that mccree hard counters him
if he's such a hard counter to the cast, why wasn't mccree 100% picked in the EnvyUS vs Rogue finals where both teams were running reinhardts and winstons?
the answer is that while mccree is very good, he doesn't fucking hard counter nearly as many characters as you think he does
[QUOTE=Sift;50939161]
I knew most of that but still doesn't quite answer why Mei is now ICE LORD capable of freezing herself in a chunk of ice with no harm whatsoever whenever she wants- let alone heals from it.[/QUOTE]
She is "ICE LORD" because of her advanced climate-manipulator technology. It's not magic, just extremely unrealistic thermal science.
It doesn't harm her because she freezes the air around her, not herself, which can also be seen in the spray. The healing makes no sense, and only exists as a gameplay element.
On another note I hope Blizzard soon deals with the DDOS'ing fuckheads. I just want to play my game without having 140 ping.
[QUOTE=Oizen;50939174]For Reinhardt, again.
Yeah I am, but at least the McCree shit can be prevented by Reinhardt's team, I'm not just going to ignore the fact that McCree has the power to make Reinhardt put down the thing that put him in the meta in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Only braindead Rein players let McCree walk up to him through barrier and spam FtH.
Most of these attempts end for average McCree players being smacked to death with a big ass hammer.
[QUOTE=cccino;50939186][t]http://img12.deviantart.net/e699/i/2016/195/9/1/overwatch__tracer_and_winston_by_splashbrush-daa03qq.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Tag that shit. This is a Christian forum.
[QUOTE=Hammer7;50939218]Only braindead Rein players let McCree walk up to him through barrier and spam FtH.[/QUOTE]
I think you missed the point where McCree can stun Reinhardt from a distance by throwing his skedaddle stuncake over his shield like it was nothing.
And if Reinhardt stats smacking with his hammer, the McCree still managed to make him lower his guard, making an opening for McCree's team to obligerate them.
[t]http://i.cubeupload.com/HmjdhL.png[/t]
Mei put the gun down.
it may well be the case that they nerf mccree, but the nerf should be after a period of seeing the results of the PTR buffs and nerfs
the problem with the fairly quick balancing that blizzard has been doing is that everyone is now out for blood for every other character, fucking nerf zarya she's OP, fucking nerf Mccree he's crazy, man when are they going to change Tracer she's ridiculous
it's insane
meanwhile an entire section of heroes in the game goes nearly untouched because they're significantly worse
like, be reasonable, wait and see what changes rather than tearing up the floorboards every few weeks, because every time there's a change, more people will complain about the wacko-balance, more people will become unfamiliar with things that have changed, more people will be upset that their character got nerfed
Yep, defense heroes buff when.
Last time I was personally able to use Bastion in a useful way was the open beta.
whatever happens I just hope sombra and the following heroes don't have cc
[t]http://i.imgur.com/ovsBwDp.gif[/t]
[QUOTE=Hammer7;50939254]Yep, defense heroes buff when.[/QUOTE]
Probably not in a long time. They already stated that they are fine with offense heroes dominating the meta at higher levels of play.
I read that Blizzard see's Defense heroes as "Obstacles to overcome" and I think that mentality is what damns them. It means they're made to be beaten in some way shape or form, just to delay things.
I wouldn't know how to buff them personally without flipping them over to assault classes, but then again maybe there shouldn't really be a defense class to begin with outside builders/snipers.
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