Overwatch - We're all soldiers now - Games

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;50368437]A shotgun does 2-7 per pellet (20 pellets per shot) - 140 max damage per shot. A Reaper shots 2 times per second Mei has 250 hitpoints. If a Reaper is close enough then a Mei only has less then 1 second to press shift.[/QUOTE] ye my other top 3 characters were Mercy, Lucio, and Zenyatta in that order. Two of those are fairly frail. I can count the amount of times I died in less than 1 second to a Reaper through the entire open beta on one hand

What garbage players were you lot up against where the counter for Mei was just "go reaper and stand literally infront of her and insta kill her" Any player with a brain in their skull and is actually playing the game won't just let you do that

[QUOTE=Fox Powers;50368442]I've heard that the game has weird issues with the mouse if your framerate is under 100, is that true?[/QUOTE] I didn't notice anything like that, but I'm bad at videogames so maybe I'm not observant enough.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50368445]ye my other top 3 characters were Mercy, Lucio, and Zenyatta in that order. Two of those are fairly frail. I can count the amount of times I died in less than 1 second to a Reaper through the entire open beta on one hand[/QUOTE] probably a symptom of Reaper being a popular "noob" character for players who don't really know what they're doing

He's edgy. For some reason teenagers are just drawn to edginess. I don't know why but they are.

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;50368438]Not to weigh in on the Mei debate, but you know what I think would instantly fix her? Not allowing her icicle to get headshots on frozen foes. Bam. Done. No more executions with zero way to avoid it at close range, forcing her to actually rely on her team like a defense hero should, and not letting her guaranteed destroy anyone who 1v1's her[/QUOTE] I haven't figured out a great way to rebalance Mei because it feels like taking away or nerfing any part of her kit would just make her underpowered. The best thing I can come up with is slightly reducing her health but I don't know how much that would impact how fucking annoying it is to fight her. She just has way too much going for her. Solid damage, great control, a self-heal immune, a swiss-army knife ice wall, and one of the better ults in the game for objectives.

How to kill a Mei. Step 1. McCree Step 2. Flash and Fan Step 3. Submit this advice to a thread and get possibly ignored because people just want to nerf characters to smithereens.

Considering the number of dumb Tracers I straight up wrecked as Symmetra I'd say beta isn't the best measure of 1v1 matchups.

I think people have a hard time accepting any counters to what they consider OP. You know like how everyone was running around saying Bastion was OP and wouldn't accept the counters told to them?

[QUOTE=cccino;50368468]Considering the number of dumb Tracers I straight up wrecked as Symmetra I'd say beta isn't the best measure of 1v1 matchups.[/QUOTE] Having soft characters dive on my Symmetra only to be melted as my beam reached max power was definitely one of the most satisfying things.

[QUOTE=Nemisis116;50368447]What garbage players were you lot up against where the counter for Mei was just "go reaper and stand literally infront of her and insta kill her" Any player with a brain in their skull and is actually playing the game won't just let you do that[/QUOTE] That's what you gathered from all the discussion? Just literally stand infront of her and insta kill her? I wish the game was that easy.

[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;50368431]Reaper will also have teammates, and it's not like 1v1's don't happen, they happen often.[/QUOTE] If Mei isn't positioning herself in some ridiculously stupid way I can't see why her teammates would ever not be close enough to help her unless most or all of them were already dead in which case, yeah, she should probably lose if she's outnumbered. I thought the whole idea with Reaper was that he was supposed to get behind the enemy team and very quickly kill soft targets like Mercy, Widowmaker etc. before anyone Like keep in mind that with the way that Overwatch maps are designed (lots of chokepoints and courtyards), teams (especially defending teams) aren't going to be spread super thin over huge distances unless they're bad at the game and don't know or care about positioning. The only kind of person that I would expect is going to be forced into a 1v1 scenario are characters that are designed to position themselves away from the rest of their team I.E. snipers and flankers, not Mei, a close range anti-flanker who is very much best off sticking near her team close to where the fighting is going to be.

When Blizzards official advice to counter Mei is to bring another person I think that's tacitly admitting that she was designed atleast in part to win 1v1's generally. Which I think is kinda shitty and where the MOBA part of Overwatch starts spoiling the FPS parts. Similarly to McCree, this might not make her overpowered in terms of the effect she has on the game (she is never picked in competitive matches and iirc had a mediocre win rate in closed beta) it just makes her really fucking annoying to play against.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;50368437]A shotgun does 2-7 per pellet (20 pellets per shot) - 140 max damage per shot. A Reaper shoots 2 times per second Mei has 250 hitpoints. If a Reaper is close enough. Then a Mei only has less then 1 second to press shift.[/QUOTE] Are you saying that people don't have reaction times faster than one second? I might as well argue that Bastion is OP because people who are bad at the game are just going to feed themselves one by one into his killzone, you shouldn't be arguing the balance of characters based off of people who have bad game sense or reaction times. [editline]21st May 2016[/editline] Then again I'm not actually arguing for Mei's balance, just whether or not Reaper is a good counter to her in a real, practical game scenario.

It's all because people have the class they like to play, or the class that the team needs at the moment, and don't want to switch just to counter 1 enemy. Which I think played a big part of me really enjoying the weekly playlist thing (was it called a brawl?) where it was random heroes to start and a new random hero after each death. Kinda forced everyone to be on more even ground with each other. You didn't end up with 1 player who's insanely good with Genji or Mei or whoever making things one sided. If I didn't have friends online I enjoyed playing that more than the normal matchmaking.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;50368457]How to kill a Mei. Step 1. McCree Step 2. Flash and Fan Step 3. Submit this advice to a thread and get possibly ignored because people just want to nerf characters to smithereens.[/QUOTE] Baring in mind this is a class based game. Just because a character isn't literally unstoppable doesn't necessarily mean they are balanced.

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;50368438]Not to weigh in on the Mei debate, but you know what I think would instantly fix her? Not allowing her icicle to get headshots on frozen foes. Bam. Done. No more executions with zero way to avoid it at close range, forcing her to actually rely on her team like a defense hero should, and not letting her guaranteed destroy anyone who 1v1's her[/QUOTE] The thing is, Mei is a very close range character that shouldn't get nerfed like that. Most classes can out range her frost and kill her, or at least keep her at bay. She's a defensive class so she should be able to kill anyone who gets close, that's what she is designed for. I find no character OP, every character has their own special thing. The only change I can see them doing if they even nerf her. (Which I don't think they should). is just having her ice bolt drop off over range. Anyone that can't kill her fast enough to get frozen should be punished. If she can't kill like that, then there is no point of her character being in the game.

[QUOTE=cccino;50368468]Considering the number of dumb Tracers I straight up wrecked as Symmetra I'd say beta isn't the best measure of 1v1 matchups.[/QUOTE] Tracer stack is the new Scout Rush.

She's a little tall for you

[QUOTE=Rufia;50368499]Baring in mind this is a class based game.[/QUOTE] Exactly, each character has good and bad matchups, including Mei Mei also has the caveat that her matchups get better/worse depending on range, so you can even improve your matchup vs her or worsen it depending on your tactics

[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;50368504]The thing is, Mei is a very close range character that shouldn't get nerfed like that. Most classes can out range her frost and kill her, or at least keep her at bay. She's a defensive class so she should be able to kill anyone who gets close, that's what she is designed for. I find no character OP, every character has their own special thing. The only change I can see them doing if they even nerf her. (Which I don't think they should). is just having her ice bolt drop off over range. Anyone that can't kill her fast enough to get frozen should be punished. If she can't kill like that, then there is no point of her character being in the game.[/QUOTE] I mean I'm not going to argue one way or the other on whether or not she should be changed, but she would absolutely still be useful even if she wasn't a god-tier 1v1 character simply because of the massive amount of utility she brings to her team via ice wall and M1 [editline]21st May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=o DefcoN o;50368516]Exactly, each character has good and bad matchups, including Mei Mei also has the caveat that her matchups get better/worse depending on range, so you can even improve your matchup vs her or worsen it depending on your tactics[/QUOTE] Okay, again, want to make it very clear that I'm not arguing one way or another on Mei's balance, but a character isn't considered balanced just so long as they aren't literally unbeatable in every single matchup in every single scenario ever. Simply because it's possible to beat a character in ideal scenarios doesn't mean that they're actually balanced.

I think people should play the game longer then a couple days to decide where to fly the OP flag around. Most people didn't have enough time to try out every character let alone figure out the meta.

[QUOTE=Geikkamir;50368522]Okay, again, want to make it very clear that I'm not arguing one way or another on Mei's balance, but a character isn't considered balanced just so long as they aren't literally unbeatable in every single matchup in every single scenario ever. Simply because it's possible to beat a character in ideal scenarios doesn't mean that they're actually balanced.[/QUOTE] Mei's matchups aren't so overwhelmingly good that she is unbalanced though, that's the point. It's not like she can only be countered by one hero in one way, and if the other team aren't doing that then Mei shitstomps. btw there's an Overwatch stream happening [url]https://www.twitch.tv/ogn_overwatch[/url] Blizz devs vs cosplayers I think. It's in Korean though.

[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;50368516]Mei also has the caveat that her matchups get better/worse depending on range, so you can even improve your matchup vs her or worsen it depending on your tactics[/QUOTE] She also has the caveat that except for range and 'crees flash/bang combo, she has no other hard counter and if you don't outright burst her at a distance - she also has two "lol I'm not dealing with this" buttons, one of which provides invulnerability while regenerating all of her health. I can't believe people are trying to say she's perfectly balanced (or even balanced "good enough") because she can't counter-snipe Widowmakers (which I've actually done to bad ones who stand still) or that in a perfect scenario against Reaper with 100% accuracy meatshots can kill her 0.5 seconds before he gets frozen and headshotted twice. I understand fears of her being nerfed to the point of being useless - which are valid when people are reactionary to how a game plays (ie: Bastion Turrets) - but she's a bad class that is way too easy to play and way too frustrating to fight against. As to how to fix that, that's something we could write pages about. I don't think a solution lies in removing anything she currently has, just tweaking them massively. The ice wall is amazing and should stay, but the little ice cube [I]get-out-of-jail-free card[/I] needs something changed. I'd also argue that getting frozen is fine to mess with your move speed, but messing with your aim sensitivity is a pure gaming sin and was a horrible idea.

[QUOTE=lintz;50368191]in a sustained burst of tracer vs mei, mei won every time[/QUOTE] Wrong.

[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;50368535]Mei's matchups aren't so overwhelmingly good that she is unbalanced though, that's the point. It's not like she can only be countered by one hero in one way, and if the other team aren't doing that then Mei shitstomps.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure to point out that a character doesn't have to be invincible to be unbalanced, because after years of playing mobas you get pretty tired of seeing that fallacy.

[QUOTE=Fox Powers;50368442]I've heard that the game has weird issues with the mouse if your framerate is under 100, is that true?[/QUOTE] Never heard of that problem or experienced it myself.

Any good player should be able to take care of a "X" no problem. Someone isn't OP just because a bad player can't do anything against them. You can replace X with any character.

[QUOTE=Doom14;50368538]She also has the caveat that except for range and 'crees flash/bang combo, she has no other hard counter[/QUOTE] have you even read the last page or two?

[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;50368550]have you even read the last page or two?[/QUOTE] No, I saw 200 posts and was hoping it came out early. v:v:v I'd also like to add that my position against Mei came [B]as someone who played her a quite a bit.[/B] About my only worry was a good Parah or a ballsy McCree, and I could rely on my team to mess with that if I just hung back. Every other time I over-extended or had a match-up against a player who shoulda stomped my face in, I could pop into an ice-cube to refresh the fight. And if I still didn't like it, oops here's a wall for me to run away behind. You've mentioned that Mei isn't strong without her team, which is funny because I found her at her strongest when I ran away from the team and harassed the rear of the enemy team without any support of my own. The only time it got dangerous is if suddenly I had 2 good players, or 3+ bad players on my tail. And even then [I]I had them all distracted away from the objective, which is still extremely useful.[/I]