Killing Floor v8 - Come Out, Come Out Little Pigs! - Games

KF1 Zeds had shitty AI and the way people killed them was by exploiting that shitty AI so that they never attack. Suddenly in KF2 they start fixing such AI exploits and people cry that the game sucks and there's no counter to anything. Zeds should have counters and weaknesses, but breaking the AI so they stand motionless or never attempt to attack shouldn't be one of them. People are already complaining that HoE is boring because if you Zerkwall, the AI breaks and just stands there for you to shoot.

I played KF1 yesterday and I feel it is aging terribly.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49707032]KF1 Zeds had shitty AI and the way people killed them was by exploiting that shitty AI so that they never attack. Suddenly in KF2 they start fixing such AI exploits and people cry that the game sucks and there's no counter to anything. Zeds should have counters and weaknesses, but breaking the AI so they stand motionless or never attempt to attack shouldn't be one of them. People are already complaining that HoE is boring because if you Zerkwall, the AI breaks and just stands there for you to shoot.[/QUOTE] Why not break AI? That's fun. Breaking the game, figuring out how it works, HoE is still hard even with how predictable the Zeds are. I mean we even have an entire way of playing games that is purely about exploiting and breaking games. Speedrunning. You know what's not fun? the hunting shotgun not killing Sirens on Hard at close range unless it's a headshot as a lvl23 Support. Or the SC/FP being unpredictable so parrying is totally unreliable and their attacking animations are also difficult to aim at so all you can do is hold down M1 In KF2 Zeds have no easily exploitable weaknesses. It all boils down to how much damage you can dish out in the shortest amount of time, so you kind of contradicted yourself. At least breaking the AI is finding a counter and way to beat them. KF1 had strategy, KF2 is streamlined for the sake of "look at how good our animations and gore are". At lvl6 in KF1 you got like a 60% damage boost for Support and a similar number for other perks. In KF2 it's like 25% at max level and 35% if you take tenacity. That's like being lvl3-4 in KF1.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49707032]KF1 Zeds had shitty AI and the way people killed them was by exploiting that shitty AI so that they never attack. Suddenly in KF2 they start fixing such AI exploits and people cry that the game sucks and there's no counter to anything. [/QUOTE] Exploiting AI as a primary mechanic in winning is shitty. So is "ha ha the last enemy is a scrake and you're alone without a good enough perk/weapon to abuse watch him gorilla glue himself to your ass while you hopelessly backsprint" and "too many players on the server means the Fleshpound now has more health than a solo boss." Rock and a hard place, really. Killing Floor has a mix of innate balance issues that play no part from Tripwire's fault (how do you make 6-man challenging and fun, without over/under relying on teamwork); whereas other things they do are clearly just dumb (bosses have needless explosive resistance, perk-tradeoffs are usually comically one-sided, etc.)

exploting the ai is an easy way to make a game boring. kf1 was 'better' for other reasons, not the shitty slow ai. kf2's issues aren't that difficult to solve, really. they're just taking it so slow, and whenever they fuck up, it takes like 4 months to fix it. they already nerfed weapon ammo finding, so why nerf it even more by forcing the last zeds to sprint? why not make normal zeds sprint but harder zeds stay the same, so you don't have to deal with 3 enraged scrakes at the end of each round if you're the last one alive. they can just nerf FP health, like, a lot, or maybe buff demo so that they'll be a nice anti-fp class thats also at least partially useful for the rest of the game.

If scrakes and fps had super easy exploitable ai, the gameplay would be ultra boring. It would turn into a flowchart of "walk into x distance of fp, wait for them to use Y melee attack, parry said attack, do damage, repeat". I'm glad zeds are more difficult to hit on harder difficulties. It keeps Tripwire from being one dimensional in increasing difficulty, I mean c'mon we don't want their difficulty curve to be completely dependent on just making zeds take more and do more damage. By making zeds have a decent ai, it makes classes like firebug and demo more useful since their tools don't require headshots to be effective (however tripwire kinda fucked up on bosses with their resistances). All we need is a few numbers changes, but overall I'm pretty happy with how kf2 plays.

[QUOTE=Naught;49706905]kf2 just shows that tripwire doesn't know jack about balancing a class right. but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because all the classes aren't in yet. by the end of like 2017 when all the classes are in, and the game is 'released' if its still a messed up piece of shit, that'll just prove my point even further.[/QUOTE] if tripwire and all the tripwire white knights had to say anything about it: they're balancing for future content not yet in the game! stop whining!

I think i took a screenshot that perfectly describes how i feel when Volter is picked as the Boss [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/548680779274462180/FEA7D71456C9AA91D5F6A5A4390D76CDF718F5DF/[/t]

To be honest, the biggest problem with KF2 right now is the players. Is hard to find a decent team who knows how to use your perks properly and do a teamwork. Most of them are just players trying to play solo on a server with 5 people or people like Commandos who keeps trying to kill the Scrakes and FPs with a Bulp. I agree with Naught about the fixes and nerfs but really, who needs to change is the playerbase, who thinks using exploits and glitches on a survival game is the legit way to be played

[QUOTE=Nickolas;49716133]I think i took a screenshot that perfectly describes how i feel when Volter is picked as the Boss [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/548680779274462180/FEA7D71456C9AA91D5F6A5A4390D76CDF718F5DF/[/t][/QUOTE] I'm disappointed I can't find a screenshot of a match I played with my friend ages ago. He was dead on the ground with a zed ontop of him eating him with it's ass directly over his face. Pretty much exactly how I feel when Hans appears.

So did anyone notice there's some unreleased crates on the steam market? They don't have images and there's only 1 available for each one, but they're definitely new.

[QUOTE=Bokito;49719679]So did anyone notice there's some unreleased crates on the steam market? They don't have images and there's only 1 available for each one, but they're definitely new.[/QUOTE] They share the names of item sets on the workshop, no doubt they plan on selling them through crates in the next update.

What's this new update all about? I coulda sworn they already put that stuff in.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;49720843]What's this new update all about? I coulda sworn they already put that stuff in.[/QUOTE] That was their WIP changelog they posted you're thinking of. Now the game has actually updated.

Developer post from Reddit: [quote=Squirrlz] This is an interesting topic. I started out as a modder, with my previous "coding" experience spent writing scripts for IrcII. I had no idea what I was doing, so I enlisted a lot of help from the community. There was no game design for my mod, I just had a vague idea of "it should be like CS, but with rpg-like progression." The community then helped shape it into something great. There are quite a few modders on the TWI team. Games like RO and Killing Floor only happened because of community input, and believe it or not, KF2 is no different. We are always reading your posts and criticisms and it constantly readjusts our priorities. The bottlenecks we encounter are when we have a desire to do new things, but want to try to answer the community. This is a very hard thing for me personally, because I have such a large desire to answer; the difference is that there are a thousand times as many people playing KF2 than there were in my modding days. It is very overwhelming. I recall a several-day ordeal shortly after I joined TWI where a forum member could not start the game. I stayed up late at night trying to solve his issue, even responding during breaks during my move to Georgia. He did eventually solve his issue, but I was distraught that he couldn't play the game. Now, multiply that by a hundred. Then, multiply that number by a hundred, and you get the number of suggestions and bug reports we get on a weekly basis. And then imagine my despair when I realize that no matter how hard any of us work, we will never be able to answer all of you. But, and this is key -- we never stop trying. Ever. I spent 10 years working on games that had no community input. No forums. No post-release support. No in-dev support. I can't begin to explain how shallow and disconnected I felt. TL;DR no matter how angry and upset you all get, I am just so incredibly happy that I get to read your posts and respond. And maybe even occasionally fix a startup crash for a random player that is just so excited to play the game, but can't. You make it all worth it. This is my view. Thank you. Thank you for letting me be a part of this community, good or bad or angry or happy. [/quote]

Is there something about normal difficulty that people refuse to play at lower levels on? After I leveled up some of my classes I went back to hard difficulty and in my first 2 games I had people join in as level 0 shit. Like cmon guys we can't carry your level 0 demo or lvl 2 zerk in a 6 man server. As soon as one of the higher level guys die they quit because they know we can't do this and it leads to an empty, dead game.

Yeah, Normal is boring as shit. One day me and 3 friends decided to crash a Normal server to get all the achievements for beating Normal. I went Level 1 or 2 Firebug and ran around Catacombs solo the entire game and was never in any danger. I was the only one that died during boss wave, because a teammate was blocking my movement out of a hallway, and the Patriarch trapped me in a corner. We were bored and left after that game.

I feel like more noobs play hard than normal. Like I had a match of normal where everyone knew where to hold up, then I go to a hard server and legit no one could decide which direction to go after the trader and ended up just defending right where the trader was, leading to a quick clusterfuck and death.

I'm level 20-25 and I almost exclusively play normal, even though I'm good at FPS games, because at least on the East Coast every Hard server is full of people who must have some sort of mental handicap. Everyone goes off in different directions, people get assfucked by clots of all things, often get an afk or two, a ton of commandos and low level classes in the same match, nobody can aim for shit. When I play on normal funny enough I find a lot of level 20-25 people who are legit good at the game, have good teamwork, use chat/voice, and they must be dealing with the same shit.

It fucking mind boggles me how shit people are, like they don't adapt their playstyle at all, they just continue to do stupid shit and wonder why it isn't working. This is where most of the whining comes from too.

I think this new system that modifies difficulty depending on how your team does is great i'm tired of hopping in between 10-30 pubs and finding one good game of decent players

[QUOTE]Demo - Offperk skill was doing 15% instead of the intended 10% [/QUOTE] I'm glad they stopped Demo from being too useful, that nasty little bugger was almost balanced! Nice try Demo!

[img]http://i.imgur.com/QTUGCro.png[/img] Yay

Is the grenade pistol worth salvaging, or do you guys have something more interesting you would like to see?

replace pitiful grenade pistol with a bolt pistol.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;49725460]Is the grenade pistol worth salvaging, or do you guys have something more interesting you would like to see?[/QUOTE] Originally I suggested that an HE Shotgun would be better, but the Grenade Pistol has grown on me. It's not great, but I'm at a point where I'd be a bit sad to see it go.

How about just make the grenade pistol a grenade pistol instead of this weird shotgun thing it is now?

I'd like the grenade pistol to function like the M79 but with a shorter time before it starts arcing down, leave C4 as it is, have the M79 work like it does now but make holding down the trigger not have the grenade explode but instead explode when you release the trigger or after a set amount of time, and leave the RPG as it is. So there's a bit of variation all around instead of small grenade launcher, big grenade launcher and bigger grenade launcher with no arc.

If they don't add an MG32, they should add a China Lake or EX41, they're basically 2-round M79's and it can be balanced by having lower damage/explosive range or something like that, maybe even add an XM25 instead of either of those. There needs to be more variety rather than single-shot weapons, if they're not going to buff the Demo's damage, then at least allow it to fire faster/more frequently.

The China Lake should have been in the game instead of the M79. It's a good middle ground between the Single-Fire M79 and the Semi-Automatic M32. It's also more appropriate for the faster flow of KF2.