Killing Floor v8 - Come Out, Come Out Little Pigs! - Games

I wouldn't mind a mixture of the two, or atleast implementing a drop system for items.

Another game that has micro-transactions in early stage is Unreal Tournament. Unreal Tournament has a market where you can buy cosmetic for fine price. It's not directly in the game but it's in the launcher. Edit: Here take a look [t]http://u.cubeupload.com/Coverop/20151124142129.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Kowalski;49172813]Rust also made skins in early and no one whined. I don't uderstand why people are so upset about skins. I don't care as they doesn't affect gameplay, plus it's a good thing for modders. Seriously relax, it's not the same thing as Payday 2.[/QUOTE] Tbh, Rust never had/has a fixed roadmap. They add random content and experiment. KF2 on the other hand, the playerbase was promised something (perks, maps and sidegrades) since the beginning and this Zed-Conomy thing wasn't wanted at all. It gets between the playerbase and what they actually want. That's the main difference, i think, from what's happening in the two games. I'm not against this business model, if done right, but i think given the circumstances they dropped the ball. Should've waited until after Early Access and many would take it as a nice extra and a way to keep the game alive for many years.

The players were also promised that they would have most content by next month, look how that turned out

[QUOTE=Mr_Ripper;49177303]I just wrote a small essay about this situation on the subreddit that explains my feelings on the situation. Or if preferred I can quote it here.[/QUOTE] You've missed one of the major bullet points that people are upset about. They've said "purely cosmetic", but they've also said they'll be pushing sidegrade weapons with different gameplay styles (aka a cute way of saying new weapons) through this pipeline later too. It'll be like the Zweihander, where they are shared, but Tripwire has already shown that it does not know what a "sidegrade" really is. And the last thing (of many) that any of us want to see in an [B]unfinished game[/B] is new weapons hidden behind shitty microtransactions.

[QUOTE=Zeos;49177873]The players were also promised that they would have most content by next month, look how that turned out[/QUOTE] I feel like I'm standing on the edge of sanity. DLC's are bad Micro-transactions (crates) are bad Games are bad What's good left?

The game itself is fine.

the only part of the game that would actually take more than a week to fix is the developers

[QUOTE=Ax3l;49177948]The game itself is fine.[/QUOTE] The foundation is fine. The current maps are pretty great. The weapon/zed/perk balance leaves a little to be desired. [QUOTE=coverop;49177908]DLC's are bad Micro-transactions (crates) are bad Games are bad What's good left?[/QUOTE] A lot of this is on: It depends. DLC is fine if the price justifies what it adds to the game. There's a big difference from the "new skin" or "30 minute low effort mission" DLC and the "here's nearly an entirely new game" expansion pack of old. Microtransactions are fine, if they don't affect game balance and mostly rely on cosmetics or replace shitty low-effort DLC all together. Crates are bad. Gambling systems in a game are bad. Shitty roulette wheel drops and the like are bad. (Free to play games that rely on premium time to be semi-enjoyable, aka freemium/Pay2Play games are bad; but that's not KF2's market. You could argue TF2 has almost, in spirit, become P2W for casual players as new, free players have drastically less options versus someone with a hundred plus pieces of equipment.) Games are only bad if they're actually bad. And what constitutes bad can cover a wide-range, from a poor engine/port (that new batman game), broken promises (Payday 2) and snail-like development cycles (Starbound), or straight up being bad all around in either gameplay, balance, or story. Killing Floor 2 has a pretty solid foundation. The engine and framework is there, but it's not being utilized very well by Tripwire and their refusal to actually coordinate and cooperate with the community is apparent with all the dumb internal testing. If I've learned anything by playing a lot of developing games, it's that you need as many players as possible for balance testing. Internal testing leads to narrower view-points and then things often wind up needing a re-balance on day one; except that with Tripwire, it takes them 2 - 7+ months to get around to fixing anything (and by fixing I mean possibly fucking it up more.) They also really need to bin whoever is making the current perks stats, because the guy is fucking inept. While we're at it, get Yoshiro off the community stuff because any time he tries to be interesting, it comes off as horribly cringey.

I'm upset because all the effort that's going into this will only delay the real updates further. This isn't some trivial thing that an intern can do in a few days, this is at least a month of hardcore design, coding, and bug testing, probably more like 2 or 3. That says very bad things about TWI. It says they value getting even more money out of us more than they value delivering the content promised us months ago. It means they value that sweet sweet crate revenue more than they value finishing their damn game. That's what disgusts me. It's an Ubisoft-style corporate greed, and I'm sorry I had to see Tripwire sink this low.

[QUOTE=Doom14;49178004]The foundation is fine. The current maps are pretty great. The weapon/zed/perk balance leaves a little to be desired.[/QUOTE] And the gameplay is you know, pretty solid and polished.

imo DLC is a side dish; it's what you put out between the first game and the next. i'd prefer they actually, you know, get out of early access before they start churning out half-sequels and [DEL]hats[/DEL] microtransactions

[QUOTE=Ax3l;49178020]And the gameplay is you know, pretty solid and polished.[/QUOTE] Well, to be pedantic, balance is a pretty big part of gameplay. Hans is shitty, big zeds need their health scaling tweaked, and some of the weapons really need reworked. Yadda yadda yadda. But yes, all that aside, it's a fun game to play. It's a big leap from Killing Floor 1, both visually, and how enjoyable it actually is to just play. A client-friendly netcode was their smartest decision, along with the better hitboxes. I can actually aim for heads now and have fun, not lead a foot ahead and aim roughly at the collarbone or above the head because that's where the hitbox actually is; ala KF1.

[QUOTE=Doom14;49178035]Well, to be pedantic, balance is a pretty big part of gameplay. Hans is shitty, big zeds need their health scaling tweaked, and some of the weapons really need reworked. Yadda yadda yadda. But yes, all that aside, it's a fun game to play. It's a big leap from Killing Floor 1, both visually, and how enjoyable it actually is to just play. A client-friendly netcode was their smartest decision, along with the better hitboxes. I can actually aim for heads now and have fun, not lead a foot ahead and aim roughly at the collarbone or above the head because that's where the hitbox actually is; ala KF1.[/QUOTE] I never even thought about the hitbox thing, but now when you mention it, yeah. Thank fuck they fixed that cause that's one of the things that kept me off killing floor 1 so often.

What kinda pisses me off is that they're also planning on selling weapon packs too. I'm sure the crates would make more than enough cash, we don't need to wall off additional content. Plus what happens if they decide to release skins for guns you don't even own, and you get one?

They're handling terribly, that's the problem. Hell, you can put as many dumb cosmetics as you want but this whole Early Access isn't going the way that it was promised to the customers. They're wasting the potential.

These microtransactions would have been met with a lot more positivity if they had just first marketed it alongside the right microtransaction content. Who cares about golden weapon skins and Classic Foster? Let us pay for what we really want! [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/27339016287513440/1774ECDA12073AABF08E7171E36A210C6318C5CE/[/t]

[QUOTE=Ax3l;49178020]And the gameplay is you know, pretty solid and polished.[/QUOTE] It's not solid when you go above hard difficulty. The balance is a mess and the only way to play higher difficulties is to use cheese strats with zerkers and medics. All the other perks are pretty much garbage thanks to Tripwire

[QUOTE=Marphy Black;49178207]These microtransactions would have been met with a lot more positivity if they had just first marketed it alongside the right microtransaction content. Who cares about golden weapon skins and Classic Foster? Let us pay for what we really want! [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/27339016287513440/1774ECDA12073AABF08E7171E36A210C6318C5CE/[/t][/QUOTE] The problem for the companies is... If its not in crate It sells poorly.

The shared content thing doesn't sound too bad, honestly Feels like Payday's system of only needing a host that has a new heist bought

[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;49178233]It's not solid when you go above hard difficulty. The balance is a mess and the only way to play higher difficulties is to use cheese strats with zerkers and medics. All the other perks are pretty much garbage thanks to Tripwire[/QUOTE] Can't say I ever noticed. :v:

[QUOTE=coverop;49178249]The problem for the companies is... If its not in crate It sells poorly.[/QUOTE] Because they latch onto a gambling addiction.

I don't think i've ever seen such backlash over something so non-gamechanging. Did people really not think they were going to add stuff like this? All the characters have multiple slots for customization, so it was pretty obvious there was gonna be a bunch of little items available. I guess maybe it could be a bit better and have the "hats" drop for free, but hey at least it's not Overkill's system.

We should calm down until the game actually is updated with this system Until we know drop rates, prices and all the rest, we shouldn't judge just yet [editline]24th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=BigPalooka;49178291]I guess maybe it could be a bit better and have the "hats" drop for free[/QUOTE] That's supposedly what happens though Everything will drop except the most rarest quality and gold items

[QUOTE=BigPalooka;49178291]I don't think i've ever seen such backlash over something so non-gamechanging. Did people really not think they were going to add stuff like this?[/QUOTE] People were expecting it. People aren't even really upset over the implementation. They're upset over two or three key points. [B]1. The game isn't done.[/B] 2. There's dumb gamble-y crates. 3. """Sidegrade""" weapons will find their way onto this system. You have to read the fine print. Like how the new Gunslinger character is supposedly only going to be one you can use if you ~~follow~~ Killing Floor 2's Steam group. Payday 2 pulled that kinda stuff before their grand fiasco. It disgusted me back then, and it disgusts me now - it's a low-effort blow to inflate numbers by artificially locking content behind shitty social features. If games get away with that kind of trend, it won't be long until we see shit like "TO FINISH THE CAMPAIGN, REMEMBER TO LIKE, FOLLOW, AND SUBSCRIBE ON FACEBOOK, TWITTER AND YOUTUBE xD" Similarly, [I]Trading Floor[/I] is going to be a nice hotbed for them to put any additional content on once they've finished the core perks and their accompanying four weapons. I'm still holding out to see how this all blows over, because it's all really down to how Tripwire handles it. It [I]could[/I] actually be a decent implementation and example for other games to follow, but I just highly doubt Tripwire has the integrity or know-how to pull it off. It'll likely wind up mediocre at best and something that can be largely ignored while playing.

[QUOTE=BigPalooka;49178291]I don't think i've ever seen such backlash over something so non-gamechanging. Did people really not think they were going to add stuff like this? All the characters have multiple slots for customization, so it was pretty obvious there was gonna be a bunch of little items available. I guess maybe it could be a bit better and have the "hats" drop for free, but hey at least it's not Overkill's system.[/QUOTE] Its very poorly timed with the games current status.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;49178505]Its very poorly timed with the games current status.[/QUOTE] This is like putting icing on a cake you haven't even baked yet

[QUOTE=LolzMan1325;49178593]This is like putting icing on a cake you haven't even baked yet[/QUOTE] Nice analogy, still adds flavour but you probably shouldn't do it because it might ruin it.

[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;49178603]Nice analogy, still adds flavour but you probably shouldn't do it because it might ruin it.[/QUOTE] It's already ruined it. We will see game published as "FULL RELEASE" with missing features or It will stay forever in Early Access. There are far too many games that sit in Early Access for YEARS already.

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1452669&postcount=46[/url] Sharp probably delayed due "new tech". Oh well.