Killing Floor v8 - Come Out, Come Out Little Pigs! - Games

On the subject of C4 being laughably bad, if a Zed has been hit by a C4 explosion, all C4 damage is reduced by 50% for 3 seconds. This stacks on top of itself for multiple C4 explosions. As far as I know, Pipes in KF1 did not do this. C4 is basically a worse Pipe Bomb.

another problem with demo if theres a siren you literally can't do anything

[QUOTE=Naught;49382187]lots of problems with that though. first off, fleshpounds never come alone. there will always be a lot of shit accompanying them. so while your dream scenario might be nice, it will never work. with the fleshpounds insane bullet resistance, your team will use up a huge amount of their ammo taking them out, and ammo is scarce in HOE. really really scarce. and there are shitloads of zeds in every round. another problem is that since they can't effectively kill trash, they're going to be useless for most of the rounds. this means you HAVE to dump money into them in order for them to be even somewhat useful. which you can't do, because you have to dump money into the medic to get them an AR by round 2-3, dump money to commandos for scars, etc. you just can't afford it. demo is just worthless, its literally a meme perk, more than support it. you pick demo if you want to be useless. a zerker with a pulverizer is just a better demo, every single time. the ONLY reason demo got picked is because of nuke, and they nerfed that into oblivion. literally no HOE team picks them up, and I've played with a shitload.[/QUOTE] A team is going to use a huge amount of ammo taking out a Fleshpound no matter what. Trash that accompanies FPs will be taken out with the first C4 detonation. And if not that, I doubt it would survive the RPG blast, or grenade blast, or the second C4. And you're right, Demo is highly inefficient at killing trash. That's why you leave most of the trash killing to the primary trash cleaners and only kill trash when someone is getting overwhelmed or a group is sneaking up on the team. Demo is extremely passive, most of your time is spent deciding whether or not that zed squad is going to cause problems and if the shot is worth the rocket. When a FP spawns, you blow up half of its health and make life way easier for your teammates.

Pipebombs and C4 are completely different, they fulfill different roles so it's not really fair to compare them.

[QUOTE=QuickShot;49382752]another problem with demo if theres a siren you literally can't do anything[/QUOTE] I think class weaknesses like this should be more common, not less. Kinda like how Firebug can't kill a Husk with fire (so I've heard).

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49383257]I think class weaknesses like this should be more common, not less. Kinda like how Firebug can't kill a Husk with fire (so I've heard).[/QUOTE] It can, it just takes very, very, [I]veeeeeerrrrrrrrrry[/I] long. I like the idea of ZEDs using their abilities and design to their own advantage and wish they'd expand on it more. I've already had my headshot-bound bullets block by a gorefast's blade as he stares at me with that jawless, cocky face begging me to try that shit again. Husk backpacks exploding is already something they use to their advantage when they suicide bomb. Crawlers are [I]supposed[/I] to be crawling on walls and ceilings although god knows when that's coming. I'd love to see a bloat deliberately tear his own stomach open when he's on low HP and start spinning around to throw bile everywhere and aggro anything nearby as well as corrode us.

I saw somebody on the TWI Forums suggest that the different clot types do different things when they grab you. I think the clot would simply grab you without forcing your aim onto him, so you wouldn't realize he's grabbed you until you try to move. The Cyst would grab you and force your aim onto him, and Slashers would make your view shake and deal the most damage. It was something like that, I can't remember exactly what it was but I like the concept in general of them grabbing you in different ways.

Cysts should tumble down as they grab you so you have to aim low to the ground to get them.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49383257]I think class weaknesses like this should be more common, not less. Kinda like how Firebug can't kill a Husk with fire (so I've heard).[/QUOTE] But a Husk is not the bane of a Firebug's existence. The siren literally shuts down a demo until they get to rank 15, which is a real pain in the ass. The firebug also has better alternatives to deal with a husk like using his trench gun. The demo only has the shitty 9mm or any other offperk weapon to help him until the demo gets the lvl15 perk. If anything, the husk can help justify a firebug since the firebug can eat a few husk blasts to save the team. The demo, not so much since the demo must be near his team to do any damage reduction when explosives come out, exclusively on bosses.

[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/365154562163479176/828427099906CB34EFEB388CDCF096E7A5685AF5/[/t] Managed to uncrate this nasty bastard after buying a crate key from money I got selling steam cards. Still deciding whether I should sell it or just keep it seeing as it's apparently the most valuable ski mask there is.

It's a rainbow ski mask and it's worth a pretty penny, but not for long. What are you waiting for ?

[QUOTE=wheel_user;49383636]It's a rainbow ski mask and it's worth a pretty penny, but not for long. What are you waiting for ?[/QUOTE] Well shit, seems like I'm locked out of selling this fucker for another week because I bought the key through the Steam Store.

[QUOTE=AlphaAGENT;49382729]On the subject of C4 being laughably bad, if a Zed has been hit by a C4 explosion, all C4 damage is reduced by 50% for 3 seconds. This stacks on top of itself for multiple C4 explosions. As far as I know, Pipes in KF1 did not do this. C4 is basically a worse Pipe Bomb.[/QUOTE] The patriarch had a similiar mechanic in KF1, to avoid pipe bomb stacks 1shotting him

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49382775]A team is going to use a huge amount of ammo taking out a Fleshpound no matter what. Trash that accompanies FPs will be taken out with the first C4 detonation. And if not that, I doubt it would survive the RPG blast, or grenade blast, or the second C4. And you're right, Demo is highly inefficient at killing trash. That's why you leave most of the trash killing to the primary trash cleaners and only kill trash when someone is getting overwhelmed or a group is sneaking up on the team. Demo is extremely passive, most of your time is spent deciding whether or not that zed squad is going to cause problems and if the shot is worth the rocket. When a FP spawns, you blow up half of its health and make life way easier for your teammates.[/QUOTE] then he's literally useless because your whole team is dedicated to killing trash. in HOE there are only a few big problems. first is getting overwhelmed by trash. thats solved by commandos, firebugs, zerkers, whathaveyou. after that, theres scrakes. scrakes are a huge issue because they enrage at 90% health. even a husk setting them on fire on accident will enrage them sometimes. this is where demos are pretty much useless because of the knockdown from rpgs, and explosive resistance. commandos/gunslingers need total line of sight to line up headshots for when a zerker pops an emp. after that, theres the double fp gauntlet wave, which is easily solved by a zerker pulverizer and a medic with a pulv. the only issue is if they come along with a scrake. where does a demo fit in? no where at all. demos need way, way, way too much money to sustain while bringing very little to the team. you're better off not having a player and dealing with the reduced health/spawns rather than bringing a demo along.

[QUOTE=usaokay;49383864]So what do EMP grenades do[/QUOTE] stop scrakes from raging at all while the effect is on them (so they just keep walking, aka easy kills from a commando or two with scars). they stop fp's from raging if you put two effects on them at once, I think, but thats not really as useful.

[QUOTE=usaokay;49383864]So what do EMP grenades do[/QUOTE] Damage zeds and un-rage them During the pre-release beta a single EMP would unrage a Scrake and a Fleshpound EMPs were subsequently nerfed so that you need more than one to un-rage a Fleshpound

[QUOTE=Naught;49383852]then he's literally useless because your whole team is dedicated to killing trash. in HOE there are only a few big problems. first is getting overwhelmed by trash. thats solved by commandos, firebugs, zerkers, whathaveyou. after that, theres scrakes. scrakes are a huge issue because they enrage at 90% health. even a husk setting them on fire on accident will enrage them sometimes. this is where demos are pretty much useless because of the knockdown from rpgs, and explosive resistance. commandos/gunslingers need total line of sight to line up headshots for when a zerker pops an emp. after that, theres the double fp gauntlet wave, which is easily solved by a zerker pulverizer and a medic with a pulv. the only issue is if they come along with a scrake. where does a demo fit in? no where at all. demos need way, way, way too much money to sustain while bringing very little to the team. you're better off not having a player and dealing with the reduced health/spawns rather than bringing a demo along.[/QUOTE] So in other words reworking Demo is not a concern for HoE because explosives themselves are bad for HoE and no amount of redesigns will fix that, unless you go and make Demo not use explosives, which is completely pointless.

[QUOTE=usaokay;49383864]So what do EMP grenades do[/QUOTE] A good way to remember it in general is that it temporarily disables a zed's signature ability i.e. husk shot, siren scream, sc low hp rage, etc.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49384066]So in other words reworking Demo is not a concern for HoE because explosives themselves are bad for HoE and no amount of redesigns will fix that, unless you go and make Demo not use explosives, which is completely pointless.[/QUOTE] or give them more damage for killing off fleshpounds, instead of taking what was it, 6 rockets to kill one? give them an explosive shotgun for killing trash, similar to the firebug one. right now, they have no real t2 weapon to bridge the gap. their t1 sucks dick, and after that, theres the nade launcher, which is also shit, and then the rpg, their only real redeeming weapon outside of c4, which can just be used by other classes anyways to the same effectiveness. they need some sort of rapid fire weapon, or a fast reloading system for what ones they have, so they can fire more than a shot every 4 seconds. explosives aren't bad, its the weapons they have attached. nades are really good, the weapons aren't at the moment. I understand that they don't want to make fp's weak as hell, but by doing this, they made demos weak as hell. and they need to balance for HOE anyways, not the other difficulties.

[QUOTE=Naught;49384311]or give them more damage for killing off fleshpounds, instead of taking what was it, 6 rockets to kill one? give them an explosive shotgun for killing trash, similar to the firebug one. right now, they have no real t2 weapon to bridge the gap. their t1 sucks dick, and after that, theres the nade launcher, which is also shit, and then the rpg, their only real redeeming weapon outside of c4, which can just be used by other classes anyways to the same effectiveness. they need some sort of rapid fire weapon, or a fast reloading system for what ones they have, so they can fire more than a shot every 4 seconds. explosives aren't bad, its the weapons they have attached. nades are really good, the weapons aren't at the moment. I understand that they don't want to make fp's weak as hell, but by doing this, they made demos weak as hell. and they need to balance for HOE anyways, not the other difficulties.[/QUOTE] 6 rockets to kill one, again assuming your 5 other teammates are sitting there doing nothing. Also to reiterate, using RPG alone is not an effective way of dealing with FPs at all. You have to use RPG and C4 together, with the help of your stun grenades to deal the most damage.

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49384370]6 rockets to kill one, again assuming your 5 other teammates are sitting there doing nothing. Also to reiterate, using RPG alone is not an effective way of dealing with FPs at all. You have to use RPG and C4 together, with the help of your stun grenades to deal the most damage.[/QUOTE] and thats literally all you do for the entire match. how exciting. why not just bring in another zerker with a pulverizer, or a firebug with a microwave gun?

The only time I've ever seen the demo be a useful class is when you're trying to keep a door welded, and it's about to be blown open by almost the entire wave of Zeds. As soon as the door pops, rockets land in the blob of zeds and they become a messy pile of parts. Why isn't demo a boss killer? A slow, single-shot class needs plenty of big boy killing power.

ho boy am i getting sick of wiping due to "gunshitters" if you aren't going to have at least deagles/500s by the time we get to the first fleshpound on hard, [B][I]stop playing the class[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Croninberg;49384418]The only time I've ever seen the demo be a useful class is when you're trying to keep a door welded, and it's about to be blown open by almost the entire wave of Zeds. As soon as the door pops, rockets land in the blob of zeds and they become a messy pile of parts. Why isn't demo a boss killer? A slow, single-shot class needs plenty of big boy killing power.[/QUOTE] Because TWI gave the bosses massive explosive resistance. Honestly just move the M79 down to T2 and make the M32 T3 and beef up the RPG so that it's similar to the LAW, and/or give the demo the M4+M203 (Or an M4+M320 if TWI want to get fancy) that he had in KF1

[QUOTE=Naught;49384399]and thats literally all you do for the entire match. how exciting. why not just bring in another zerker with a pulverizer, or a firebug with a microwave gun?[/QUOTE] Demo is a passive perk, sitting back with the Medic deciding when to press mouse 1 while waiting for Fleshpounds is simply what he does. Get this, some people like different things. Maybe they don't like playing Zerker or Firebug, and like trading the ability to kill trash constantly for big damage and hard stun against Fleshpounds and the ability to wipe all zeds in a 1000 unit radius with one click.

which is why they are literally never taken in hoe games outside of random pubs, doomed to fail. nuke was their only saving grace. thats barely anything when you have every other perk, even support, that can consistently beat hoe, and constantly help the team in the process. theory craft all you want, man, but demos are awful in hoe in every way. every weapon is meh, their perks are meh (they should just have explosions ignored by sirens by default, why the hell is it such a medium level perk?)

ugh the Putrid bile M79 is being made so expensive. Is it really that much harder to get than all the other rare skins? Same for the Rusted SG 500

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;49384533]ho boy am i getting sick of wiping due to "gunshitters" if you aren't going to have at least deagles/500s by the time we get to the first fleshpound on hard, [B][I]stop playing the class[/I][/B][/QUOTE] I love playing gunslinger but god do most gunslinger players suck. If you aren't getting headshots, you should just pick something else. Isn't that the whole point of the perk? Stack up a few headshot stacks for that massive damage bonus and then instagib a scrake's face?

[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;49385714]I love playing gunslinger but god do most gunslinger players suck. If you aren't getting headshots, you should just pick something else. Isn't that the whole point of the perk? Stack up a few headshot stacks for that massive damage bonus and then instagib a scrake's face?[/QUOTE] Something else to keep in mind is your Knife and Nail Grenades are also buffed to 170% by the stacks, and do not gain / lose any on use.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49383257]I think class weaknesses like this should be more common, not less. Kinda like how Firebug can't kill a Husk with fire (so I've heard).[/QUOTE] I really want sharpshooter to be all bolt action snipers that utterly destroy FPs and scrakes, but you can't do shit to trash. Hopefully it plays more like that, in KF1 since they had pistols as well sharp just killed everything.