Killing Floor v8 - Come Out, Come Out Little Pigs! - Games

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49384861]Demo is a passive perk, sitting back with the Medic deciding when to press mouse 1 while waiting for Fleshpounds is simply what he does. Get this, some people like different things. Maybe they don't like playing Zerker or Firebug, and like trading the ability to kill trash constantly for big damage and hard stun against Fleshpounds and the ability to wipe all zeds in a 1000 unit radius with one click.[/QUOTE] Then why would I pick a passive perk that only slightly dents big zeds when there's other perks that can easily deal with trash AND big zeds at that? KF1 demo was pretty much OK. Heavy and expensive as hell, but it could clear a hallway and a Fleshpound in a pinch

[QUOTE=NitronikALT;49386862]Then why would I pick a passive perk that only slightly dents big zeds when there's other perks that can easily deal with trash AND big zeds at that? KF1 demo was pretty much OK. Heavy and expensive as hell, but it could clear a hallway and a Fleshpound in a pinch[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49384861]the ability to wipe all zeds in a 1000 unit radius with one click.[/QUOTE] You know this doesn't really sound all that useful, my team is pretty disorganized, getting swarmed constantly, wiping to Fleshpounds, ...I think I'll go Commando so I can use a whole magazine to decap the zeds that are attacking them or go Firebug so I can slowly burn them to death individually. Or maybe I'll pick Gunslinger so I can help out with big zeds but hmm I couldn't really save my team if they get swarmed... if only there was a perk that could deal gigantic AOE explosive damage to trash and also deal big damage to Fleshpounds

Demo is shit right now because his only gimmick is removing a blob of ZEDs fast and doing damage to Fleshpounds except not really unless you're perked to stun them. Anything else he can do is either done better, has to be done stupidly (RPG dud headshots), or is useless (boss explosive resistance comes to mind.) And that Demo relies almost entirely on his 15+ skills, with the strongest one being all the way at Level 25 and only in ZED time. And if your team is remotely decent, "blob of ZEDs" is a threat that almost never happens. Demolitionists often feel worse to have on my team than Commandos, because at least Commandos aren't exploding stuff I have under control constantly or raging fleshpounds (that are targeting me) 50m away by shooting them with RPGs. It doesn't help that his weapon choice is abysmal too. Tier 1 - Starting gimmick that struggles to kill stuff, has horrible range, and isn't even all that "explodey" Tier 2 - Expensive gimmick that is pretty much a waste of money and like throwing extra grenades without nuke. Tier 3 - Overweight weapon with no ammo you'll never use because RPG. Tier 4 - Single shot RPG that still takes a chunk of ammo to deal with any singular big ZED. Compaired to KF1, which had: Tier 2 Pipe - Expensive initially, but cheap to maintain and excellent for defending a hallway with it's proximity overload feature. Tier 2 M79 - Excellent long-range explosive that didn't weigh much and could remain your mainstay weapon. Tier 3 M32 - Wave/Big-ZED removing panic button with a horrendous reload and small ammo count that meant it couldn't be spammed back-to-back. Tier 4 LAW - Chunky BFG that removed your inventory space, but actually dealt massive damage and could take out Big ZEDs in a shot or two.

[QUOTE=Doom14;49386919]Demo is shit right now because his only gimmick is removing a blob of ZEDs fast and doing damage to Fleshpounds except not really unless you're perked to stun them. Anything else he can do is either done better, has to be done stupidly (RPG dud headshots), or is useless (boss explosive resistance comes to mind.) And that Demo relies almost entirely on his 15+ skills, with the strongest one being all the way at Level 25 and only in ZED time. And if your team is remotely decent, "blob of ZEDs" is a threat that almost never happens. Demolitionists often feel worse to have on my team than Commandos, because at least Commandos aren't exploding stuff I have under control constantly or raging fleshpounds (that are targeting me) 50m away by shooting them with RPGs. It doesn't help that his weapon choice is abysmal too. Tier 1 - Starting gimmick that struggles to kill stuff, has horrible range, and isn't even all that "explodey" Tier 2 - Expensive gimmick that is pretty much a waste of money and like throwing extra grenades without nuke. Tier 3 - Overweight weapon with no ammo you'll never use because RPG. Tier 4 - Single shot RPG that still takes a chunk of ammo to deal with any singular big ZED.[/QUOTE] So killing lots of zeds with one shot is a gimmick? So then Support penetration is a gimmick. And Gunslinger penetration. You know what? Grenades are gimmicks. Killing zeds isn't all that useful. I don't know what part about removing half of a 6 man HoE Fleshpound's health single handedly counts as 'not really' doing damage to them. And I'm sorry that the Demolitionists you've been playing with don't know how to play the class. That's not the perk's fault.

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49386908]You know this doesn't really sound all that useful, my team is pretty disorganized, getting swarmed constantly, wiping to Fleshpounds, ...I think I'll go Commando so I can use a whole magazine to decap the zeds that are attacking them or go Firebug so I can slowly burn them to death individually. Or maybe I'll pick Gunslinger so I can help out with big zeds but hmm I couldn't really save my team if they get swarmed... if only there was a perk that could deal gigantic AOE explosive damage to trash and also deal big damage to Fleshpounds[/QUOTE] Dude, why are you being the Tripwire Defense Force right now? The game is flawed, admit it. This class is flawed. Have you never played a game above Normal to realize how bad Demo is and how, with some overall buffs, he could be a legitimately fun class to play?

Demo was literally untouched in testing, there is no way someone actually played with it competently.

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49386908]You know this doesn't really sound all that useful, my team is pretty disorganized, getting swarmed constantly, wiping to Fleshpounds, ...I think I'll go Commando so I can use a whole magazine to decap the zeds that are attacking them or go Firebug so I can slowly burn them to death individually. Or maybe I'll pick Gunslinger so I can help out with big zeds but hmm I couldn't really save my team if they get swarmed... if only there was a perk that could deal gigantic AOE explosive damage to trash and also deal big damage to Fleshpounds[/QUOTE] Switch to double anything / pop a nade and you cleared a mob of trash (GS) Commando is the only one who really has trouble with big zeds, but if you can line up headshots with the SCAR-H that's scrakes taken care of Don't get me started on Firebug. Not only demo is way too situational, but it also underperforms in its own niche. Yeah sure, you could wipe a mob of zeds, but you're wasting ammo intended for the big ones - and let me remind you that as a demo you're constantly starved for ammo

[QUOTE=MrHeadHopper;49386960]Dude, why are you being the Tripwire Defense Force right now? The game is flawed, admit it. This class is flawed. Have you never played a game above Normal to realize how bad Demo is and how, with some overall buffs, he could be a legitimately fun class to play?[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to say he doesn't need buffs, I'm saying he doesn't need "huge, sweeping buffs across the board" or a 6 shot rapid fire grenade launcher to make him viable. I'm trying to point out that the perk has strengths laid out already, and TW should fix what is broken with him instead of throwing new toys at him which will eventually need to be balanced as well or give him huge sweeping buffs and shoot Demo up to Firebug levels of overpowered. I originally just wanted to share how I think Demo should be balanced, but I guess I got carried away.

As a point, Slash, you have fairly recently said he needs the M32 to help fix him up. [QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49265353]All he needs is the M32 really. Among other tweaks but the M32 would let him actually do his job of Fleshpound removal.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;49387053]As a point, Slash, you have fairly recently said he needs the M32 to help fix him up.[/QUOTE] And after playing Demo for a couple of weeks, my opinions changed.

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49387078]And after playing Demo for a couple of weeks, my opinions changed.[/QUOTE] Then you should at least beat a map as a demo on hard. You've only done it on normal and you've reached level 15 already meng.

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49386952]So killing lots of zeds with one shot is a gimmick? So then Support penetration is a gimmick. And Gunslinger penetration. You know what? Grenades are gimmicks. Killing zeds isn't all that useful.[/QUOTE] You totally missed the point and instead proved it more. Demolistionists' current defining trait is only a tiny bit stronger than [B]what half the classes already do easily.[/B] [QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49386952]I don't know what part about removing half of a 6 man HoE Fleshpound's health single handedly counts as 'not really' doing damage to them.[/QUOTE] Because now that the Demolistionist has wasted all his energy with grenades/pipes and a rocket combo, the team now has to finish off the now-raging Fleshpound the [I]Demolistionist didn't kill[/I] that still has half it's health. And by "half", if you mean somehow the Demo got it down to 4000~ HP, congrats, you have a raging Fleshpound with just as much health as it does nearly topped off on a 6-man Normal/Hard server. Hope your team was ready for that while you reload all your shit, and I hope you have the ammo for the other Bigs that are sure to show up. [B]I would implore you to actually beat a 6-man HoE with a Demolistionist before you make up inane scenarios. [/B]Not just Normal. No other class is so across-the-board mediocre while simultaneously relying so heavily on it's class perks to be remotely viable. A Demolitionist without the anti-siren perk and Nuke might as well be a wasted slot given how much he's increased the HP of everything and the total number of Zeds. There's also the fact that [highlight]they're innately fucking useless on a boss wave which is a huge no-no in game design.[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Doom14;49387124] There's also the fact that [highlight]they're innately fucking useless on a boss wave which is a huge no-no in game design.[/highlight][/QUOTE] Exactly! What's the deal with demo doing HALF damage against bosses? (It's 50% penalty on Hans and 40% on Patty IIRC)

[QUOTE=slashsnemesis;49386952]So killing lots of zeds with one shot is a gimmick? So then Support penetration is a gimmick. And Gunslinger penetration. You know what? Grenades are gimmicks. Killing zeds isn't all that useful. I don't know what part about removing half of a 6 man HoE Fleshpound's health single handedly counts as 'not really' doing damage to them. And I'm sorry that the Demolitionists you've been playing with don't know how to play the class. That's not the perk's fault.[/QUOTE] sorry but the class is bad. it needs sweeping buffs everywhere. you're talking tough for someone who doesn't even have an achievement for beating HOE on any map, dude. I have actual EXPERIENCE in the mode. a lot of experience. im not some sort of ultra mega pro at the game but I've beaten HOE on almost every map. the class is just dead in the water compared to any other class. being able to kill off a group of zeds isn't that exciting when a firebug can do the exact same thing with a sweep of a caulk and burn/flamethrower, and be useful for other parts of the game, including the boss. the only saving grace about them is the rpg being 'okay' (but why even use that when you can use a pulverizer? you aren't going to be taking them on at medium range anyways) c4 is alright, but a money sink, and the nades are okay.but even all those need some sort of buff to make them viable.

I want an AT-4 CS that can one-shot Fleshpounds, but light enough that you can carry the M79 with it (since the AT-4 is a one-shot wonder). [editline]25th December 2015[/editline] Also another thing Demo needs is one of his tier's replaced with a "Loadout" tier, where you can either choose Backup or Strong Back.

[QUOTE=usaokay;49387389]Give the demolitionist more ammo. There's a reason why demo players keep purchasing a couple RPGs and throwing it on the ground every boss wave.[/QUOTE] Give everyone more ammo TBH, atleast on Normal or Hard maybe. I really like shooting things and only having like 2 bullets specially as a Commando gets really annoying.

I thought this was pretty cool, put "showhud" in the console to toggle the hud on and off. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDwPTxrKArk[/media] How late am I?

Only things I think Demo needs: - Reduce the weight on the M79, drop it to being a tier 2 weapon ($650) - Throw out useless skills (Door Welding, Off-Perk) - Get rid of the dumb resistance on C4, or at least make it take effect after two simultaneous C4 explosions on one Zed. - Add the M32 back, make it a tier 3 weapon ($1100), C4's price can stay as is. - Buff the RPG, keep it as a tier 4 ($1500) - Buff the passive that gives Demo more ammo, or make an entirely new passive that gives an additional grenade per 5 levels with a final total of 10.

[QUOTE=Zombie626;49387479]I thought this was pretty cool, put "showhud" in the console to toggle the hud on and off. How late am I?[/QUOTE] How would one bind that command to a button? I mean you don't really need hud for anything really except maybe quick glance every now and then how many zeds left.

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;49387483]Only things I think Demo needs: - Reduce the weight on the M79, drop it to being a tier 2 weapon ($650) - Throw out useless skills (Door Welding, Off-Perk) - Get rid of the dumb resistance on C4, or at least make it take effect after two simultaneous C4 explosions on one Zed. - Add the M32 back, make it a tier 3 weapon ($1100), C4's price can stay as is. - Buff the RPG, keep it as a tier 4 ($1500) - Buff the passive that gives Demo more ammo, or make an entirely new passive that gives an additional grenade per 5 levels with a final total of 10.[/QUOTE] Keep Door Trap but make it a Passive.

[QUOTE=Combine 177;49387573]How would one bind that command to a button? I mean you don't really need hud for anything really except maybe quick glance every now and then how many zeds left.[/QUOTE] setbind p showhud change p to your preferred key

Ok how in the FUCK has the votekick bug not been fixed already after all these months? I just got fucked over again because my trader UI got locked up and I couldn't buy anything.

[QUOTE=pebkac;49387748]Ok how in the FUCK has the votekick bug not been fixed already after all these months? I just got fucked over again because my trader UI got locked up and I couldn't buy anything.[/QUOTE] that fucking bug is still there?

They can't ruin classes any more than they have so I don't see why they can't release a few number tweaks.

I still get a kick out of Firebug seeming more explosive than Demolitionist, and perhaps more effective too. It really is a shame the class seems so lackluster. I wonder if they'll actually make it worth using at some point in the near future.

[QUOTE=Notanything;49388007]I still get a kick out of Firebug seeming more explosive than Demolitionist, and perhaps more effective too.[/QUOTE] Agreed, Demo should have the explosive shotgun, not Firebug. I cannot understand how they designed these two classes side-by-side and thought "Which one should have the exploding shotgun, Firebug?"

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;49388050]Agreed, Demo should have the explosive shotgun, not Firebug. I cannot understand how they designed these two classes side-by-side and thought "Which one should have the exploding shotgun, Firebug?"[/QUOTE] It's not an explosive shotgun at all.

Why even should tripwire buff demo? For example, all my friends who own kf2, play on Normal and rarely Hard. On these levels, demo is passable. Why the hell would they waste effort on people who are not casuals? Skins are more important anyway. I want to decapitate Tripwire with RPG in close range while wearing wielding mask. I am angry and bitter at a disservice done to Demo.

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;49387483]Only things I think Demo needs: - Reduce the weight on the M79, drop it to being a tier 2 weapon ($650) - Throw out useless skills (Door Welding, Off-Perk) - Get rid of the dumb resistance on C4, or at least make it take effect after two simultaneous C4 explosions on one Zed. - Add the M32 back, make it a tier 3 weapon ($1100), C4's price can stay as is. - Buff the RPG, keep it as a tier 4 ($1500) - Buff the passive that gives Demo more ammo, or make an entirely new passive that gives an additional grenade per 5 levels with a final total of 10.[/QUOTE] I still think Demo could use quicker reloads somewhere

[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;49390451]You can't say not at all, because it makes zeds explode with a perk.[/QUOTE] We might as well call him the Firebomb seeing as he'd also have a Explosive Firethrower, Caulk 'n Boom and a Microwave Exploder. This actually sounds rad as shit, let's just cut demo and make the Firebug a doomsday device.