Rhythm Game Megathread v1 - Don't stop moving to the funky funky beat - Games

[QUOTE=WaRRioRTF;44264849]I bet all of this is wrong. But I can't really figure out how else it might work especially without any documentation for it.[/QUOTE] For standard mode, PPv2 cares about combo more than anything. Which sucks for me as i can never keep a combo for very long (which i'm still working on). Full combo on an easy map with DT/HR that has 52 notes, compared to getting a ton of separate 50-80 combos on an insane with no mods, is worth tons more for the easy map. DT/HR has an insane PP boost, coupled with the fact that fullcomboing gives you tons of PP, means that it's near worthless to play any maps that are slightly above or a little too far above your skill range. It literally encourages you to farm shit that's too easy for you with mods if you want to get a higher rank. Which is ironic considering that was one of the things PPv2 was supposed to fix. Overall Accuracy also plays a role, but to a far lesser extent. Internal Map difficulty isn't worth anywhere near enough. Read through this thread some time: [url]https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/181850[/url]

no nooOO gripping my mouse constantly for the past week while i played diablo 3 has rendered my thumb incapable of moving quickly enough for project diva f truly, this is the worst thing that could ever have happened to anyone

[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;44265278]For standard mode, PPv2 cares about combo more than anything. Which sucks for me as i can never keep a combo for very long (which i'm still working on). Full combo on an easy map with DT/HR that has 52 notes, compared to getting a ton of separate 50-80 combos on an insane with no mods, is worth tons more for the easy map. DT/HR has an insane PP boost, coupled with the fact that fullcomboing gives you tons of PP, means that it's near worthless to play any maps that are slightly above or a little too far above your skill range. It literally encourages you to farm shit that's too easy for you with mods if you want to get a higher rank. Which is ironic considering that was one of the things PPv2 was supposed to fix. Overall Accuracy also plays a role, but to a far lesser extent. Internal Map difficulty isn't worth anywhere near enough. Read through this thread some time: [url]https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/181850[/url][/QUOTE] What was the old ranking system like? Was it better in your opinion?

[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;44265278]For standard mode, PPv2 cares about combo more than anything. Which sucks for me as i can never keep a combo for very long (which i'm still working on). Full combo on an easy map with DT/HR that has 52 notes, compared to getting a ton of separate 50-80 combos on an insane with no mods, is worth tons more for the easy map. DT/HR has an insane PP boost, coupled with the fact that fullcomboing gives you tons of PP, means that it's near worthless to play any maps that are slightly above or a little too far above your skill range. It literally encourages you to farm shit that's too easy for you with mods if you want to get a higher rank. Which is ironic considering that was one of the things PPv2 was supposed to fix. Overall Accuracy also plays a role, but to a far lesser extent. Internal Map difficulty isn't worth anywhere near enough. Read through this thread some time: [url]https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/181850[/url][/QUOTE] i don't think this is necessarily true, i'm pretty sure that it's basically something like [base difficulty modifier]*[no of misses]*[max combo]*[score] with * being some kind of operation, not necessarily multiplication. i mean, i agree with you that it values combo more than anything (just 1x missing a map can make it go from 10pp to 0/1pp, i've tested it), but i think that the base pp value for a map comes from its difficulty modifier based on tom's new star system (that you can see on the website). accuracy is also a MAJOR factor now, i used to always HD maps after Sing them for extra pp due to the aim difficulty increase, but now that aim increase is negated because of the fact that you'll lose PP unless you keep your accuracy the same. im also pretty sure this is the reason they introduced the new official "extra" difficulty on the website, above insane, so that those maps could be weighted more heavily for pp. [editline]17th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Frustration96;44265635]What was the old ranking system like? Was it better in your opinion?[/QUOTE] as much as i despise ppv2 because im trash (2175pp, im mystified as to how thats only 10.329 in the world when two weeks ago 2150 was 9.999 in the world, i guess everyone's just getting better faster than i am), ppv1 was complete shite. it was ridiculously farmable, pitifully so. [editline]17th March 2014[/editline] of course pppy loves security through obscurity so we'll never ever know anything related to the pp calculation \/(ツ)\/

[QUOTE=Frustration96;44265635]What was the old ranking system like? Was it better in your opinion?[/QUOTE] Imagine a system where every map has a set amount of PP to give, and it's only distributed to the top 500 ranks on that map. If you couldn't get into the top 500 of any map/diff you were unranked no matter what you did. Similar to how there is now, there was a decreasing curve on how much PP you would get, with the top 10 "hardest" maps you ranked on giving the most PP, and every map past that giving a far lesser amount. That didn't stop everybody under the sun playing super easy maps with DT/HD/HR/FL for PP, effectively making it near impossible for someone playing without mods to get into the top 500 of a diff that's around their level. The algorithm that decided the actual difficulties of the maps was also pretty well known for being wildly inaccurate. PPv2 is better, but both are pretty bad

[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;44267521]Imagine a system where every map has a set amount of PP to give, and it's only distributed to the top 500 ranks on that map. If you couldn't get into the top 500 of any map/diff you were unranked no matter what you did. Similar to how there is now, there was a decreasing curve on how much PP you would get, with the top 10 "hardest" maps you ranked on giving the most PP, and every map past that giving a far lesser amount. That didn't stop everybody under the sun playing super easy maps with DT/HD/HR/FL for PP, effectively making it near impossible for someone playing without mods to get into the top 500 of a diff that's around their level. The algorithm that decided the actual difficulties of the maps was also pretty well known for being wildly inaccurate. [B]PPv2 is better, but both are pretty bad[/B][/QUOTE] How could it be made better though? Lets say there was a ppv3 and we got to decide how it worked, how would you make it work? Personally I think SS's should be ranked higher than full combos, since they are harder to get. That's about all I have since I have no idea how things worked, work now or how I would really want them to work so yeah...

All I want is a system that would actually care for the difficulty together with your combo and accuracy. Beating a song is fun and all but when you climb over a difficulty you couldn't pass before, all you get to do is pat yourself on the back because you won't get any pp worth shit to show you breaking through that wall. And then you go back to your previous songs and you gain nice pp until you get bored of them enough to actually move on to harder songs and stick to them because you don't find previous difficulty fun anymore.

Are there any tablet users that feel like their wrist is bruised or something after playing for a while? Maybe I'm holding the pen weird or something but after I play I always have a pain in the middle of my wrist :( As a side note I may get a bluetooth dongle tomorrow, phase shift here I come :D

[QUOTE=Frustration96;44267572]How could it be made better though? Lets say there was a ppv3 and we got to decide how it worked, how would you make it work?[/QUOTE] the best kind of pp system would take into account difficulty, accuracy and combo, then mods - a 100% SS should be worth far, far more than a 96% S with Double Time, but with the score multiplier way mods work that isn't possible and splitting the scores into nomod-mod wouldn't work either

[QUOTE=Frustration96;44269684]Are there any tablet users that feel like their wrist is bruised or something after playing for a while? Maybe I'm holding the pen weird or something but after I play I always have a pain in the middle of my wrist :( As a side note I may get a bluetooth dongle tomorrow, phase shift here I come :D[/QUOTE] If your wrist is being pressed against the side of your desk or something, try playing with the tablet further up on your desk, so that your arm rests on the desk and you mostly use your fingers and wrist to do movements with the pen. If you think its your grip, then just try a bunch of different grips, I still don't have one that I default to, most of the time I start out playing with a normal pen/pencil grip and then by the end of the time I'm done playing its morphed into some kind of claw grip. [editline]17th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Taggart;44269813]the best kind of pp system would take into account difficulty, accuracy and combo, then mods - a 100% SS should be worth far, far more than a 96% S with Double Time, but with the score multiplier way mods work that isn't possible and splitting the scores into nomod-mod wouldn't work either[/QUOTE] I disagree, depending on the map, a 99% S/100% SS is much, much easier than FCing with DT or HR. The problem is that, until we have some kind of artificial intelligence, there's always going to be some sort of problem with the way that the difficulty modifier is assigned. The biggest problem I can think of right now is that aim is held stupidly higher than the other attributes. A blisteringly fast 200bpm map with single spacing between it's notes is around 3.1 stars, but a comparatively slower map at 180bpm that has crazy jumps is 3.3 or 3.4 stars.

Kinda optimistic to except the PP system to calculate every score ever submitted. Imo it's currently pretty fair. Combos and a high score is what you need to get in on the calculation. After that comes the difficulty of the map which gives you the PP you deserve depending on your current ranking and the accuracy you got and mods you used. Some maps may be skewered but I highly disagree that an SS is more valuable than FC DT or even HR/HD with 95~% acc. They are legitimately hard compared to an SS that mostly require the luck to not hit that green instead of getting a 99.67% accuracy.

fuck you ecksdee and your accuracy too :( [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdFiJ0RDnc8[/media] webcam is still a little laggy i wonder if there's anything i can do about that hmm

[QUOTE=Taggart;44269813]the best kind of pp system would take into account difficulty, accuracy and combo, then mods - a 100% SS should be worth far, far more than a 96% S with Double Time, but with the score multiplier way mods work that isn't possible and splitting the scores into nomod-mod wouldn't work either[/QUOTE] No, everyone can easily get accuracy on slow maps, only a few people can actually DT the maps with good enough accuracy. There would be no point for DT players to even use DT anymore, as they will be lower rank than a no-mod slow bpm player. If anything DT should give the most score/PP out of any mod as it makes the AR/OD higher and the map faster.

[QUOTE=Taggart;44269813]the best kind of pp system would take into account difficulty, accuracy and combo, then mods - a 100% SS should be worth far, far more than a 96% S with Double Time, but with the score multiplier way mods work that isn't possible [/QUOTE] Even the 150% increase in speed aside you're also looking at an increase in OD roughly the same as if you would play it with HR. PPV2 nets you PP based on the difficulty of the map, only makes sense for DT to generally net you more PP as it increases the difficulty of the map in pretty much all ways possible. Only scenario where your example would be reasonable would be if the map is already OD10 and not particularly fast.

[QUOTE=boats;44275452]Even the 33% increase in speed [/QUOTE] wtf that isn't doubletime then, it's a time-and-a-third

yeah no disregard that number I'm just retarded edit2: actually I don't know I'm bad at math, it multiplies the bpm by 1.5 so it's not really x2 either idk fug

oh not that, I was pointing out the inaccuracy of the name

Yeah the name of the mod isn't accurate but I guess it makes more sense than "ONE AND A HALF TIME"

even 150% isn't doubletime, it's time-and-a-half [editline]18th March 2014[/editline] my merge

the gurrendan skin has a good comprimise by having the icon just say "fast", which while undescriptive is technically correct [QUOTE=MitchvW;44275044]No, everyone can easily get accuracy on slow maps, only a few people can actually DT the maps with good enough accuracy. There would be no point for DT players to even use DT anymore, as they will be lower rank than a no-mod slow bpm player. If anything DT should give the most score/PP out of any mod as it makes the AR/OD higher and the map faster.[/QUOTE] This is the point of taking into account difficulty and accuracy together. A good DT player with good accuracy would be fine, because the DT is extra difficulty and they still play well, whereas a DT player who can't keep good accuracy will have to work on it (as you do for anything else). In other words, a 100% accuracy play should always take the highest scores - adding mods to that makes it worth more, because it's harder. The way it is right now, SS's with Double Time can be overtaken simply by activating another two mods and getting a 96/7% S, because of the score multiplier - Especially with the way Hidden and Flashlight work (both mainly memory, though Hidden requires you to know timing), there is no ultimate "increase" in difficulty from DT alone. There are maps where the top score is an A (not even an FC) and is only the top score because it has all five mods enabled. SSing every slow map in the game wouldn't mean much if difficulty was properly adjusted so that only actually difficult slow maps had any real impact. The issue is that both of these are very, VERY hard to correctly implement (even I, suggesting it, feel that it would still need a LOT of tweaking, never mind a lot of work), so will likely never happen ever.

2 options: 1) 2 separate PP rankings; one for plays with mods, one with no mods - - - If necessary, reducing the amount of stored replays for map in half and dividing it between the two is acceptable 2) Have it be like mania where mods don't affect your score at all and are only for e-peen. Along with the change that will be implemented soonish* (probably never) where you can overwrite scores if the new score gives more PP, would allow the elite to still get PP while not completely fucking up the rankings

I like how this has essentially turned into an osu! thread. I finally tried it out today and I've been hooked since this morning. Pretty tough, though. Finally S'd my first easy map :v:

To anyone that plays osu!mania I have a couple questions: 1. Are there any skins you use for it? I have so far found 2 and I hat both as their too flashy imo. 2. What have you binded your keys to? I see in a lot of videos that they are bound all in a line, as opposed to on the left and right. I just started playing it today and I like it a lot more than I thought I would. I suck hard of course and seem to get my fingers confused at least once in EVERY song, no matter how easy the note is my brain makes me screw up. I'll gat there though...probably...

Just to clear some stuff up: DT and HR change NOTHING but the map difficulty base multiplier and it's not a linear 1.5x increase as the speed is. When DT or HR is added the map is re-scaled and the difficulty is re calculated as if it was a new map so I'd say that they're VERY fair mods in that regard as it gives the same score as any other map which requires the same movement. HD and FL give base modifiers to accuracy and aim I do believe, they're a little hard to balance though. PPV2 cares about different things at different times. When a map is very hard to get high accuracy on but slow it doesn't give a shit about anything but high accuracy. If a map has insanely fast jumps/streams then it doesn't give a shit about accuracy. If you somehow manage to get high accuracy with insane jumps/streams I will agree that you aren't rewarded enough. I'll try to get some actual formulas to look at some time so that you guys can take a look at it. [quote=zombii]Edited: of course pppy loves security through obscurity so we'll never ever know anything related to the pp calculation \/(ツ)\/[/quote] PPv2 isn't run by peppy and it's a lot more transparent (or aims to be, maybe not right now). You guys should really take some of this discussion over to here: [url]https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/181850/start=840[/url] [editline]1[/editline] Oh one more thing, the top score of each player on a map is recorded; every single one of them (not sure if people were confused about that maybe I read wrong and have bad memory).

[QUOTE=Frustration96;44282068]To anyone that plays osu!mania I have a couple questions: 1. Are there any skins you use for it? I have so far found 2 and I hat both as their too flashy imo. 2. What have you binded your keys to? I see in a lot of videos that they are bound all in a line, as opposed to on the left and right.[/QUOTE] 1. my own skin i've been making for a while now: [url=http://pixellegacy.com/files/osu/monolegacy 0.7.osk]v0.7[/url]. Note, it has full white keys with colored lanes, instead of colored keys and black lanes. I ship colored variants of the keys/columns, although you'd need to hand edit the "4k.ini" and "7k.ini" etc to use them. 2. "a|s|d|f|[space]|j|k|l|;" - for various keymodes, just removing from both ends as it goes down in keys i wanted to bind 4K to "E|F|J|I" (which is my taiko binding), but if i hold E&F at the same time on my keyboard no other keys register. so i'm just sticking to "D|F|J|K". you can use this tool to figure out what keypresses you can use: [url=http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/antighostingexplained.mspx]micrsoft's "ghosting" tool (it's not ghosting, microsoft)[/url] ecksdee used to do something like "K|L|;|[right ctrl]|num4|num5|num6" for 7K to work around 6KRO for his rubberdome keyboard, so he could press all 7 keys at once. edit: ecksdee apparently used "L|;|'|[right ctrl]|num4|num5|num6". wowe what a tiny hand scrub

I've been using v0.4 for the longest time. [editline]19th March 2014[/editline] I can't use it without the coloured notes. What were the colour values for the rows in 0.4? i.e. pink on the second to outer keys and yellow in the middle.

[QUOTE=jesse1412;44282192]Just to clear some stuff up: DT and HR change NOTHING but the map difficulty base multiplier and it's not a linear 1.5x increase as the speed is. When DT or HR is added the map is re-scaled and the difficulty is re calculated as if it was a new map so I'd say that they're VERY fair mods in that regard as it gives the same score as any other map which requires the same movement. HD and FL give base modifiers to accuracy and aim I do believe, they're a little hard to balance though. PPV2 cares about different things at different times. When a map is very hard to get high accuracy on but slow it doesn't give a shit about anything but high accuracy. If a map has insanely fast jumps/streams then it doesn't give a shit about accuracy. If you somehow manage to get high accuracy with insane jumps/streams I will agree that you aren't rewarded enough. I'll try to get some actual formulas to look at some time so that you guys can take a look at it. PPv2 isn't run by peppy and it's a lot more transparent (or aims to be, maybe not right now). You guys should really take some of this discussion over to here: [url]https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/181850/start=840[/url] [editline]1[/editline] Oh one more thing, the top score of each player on a map is recorded; every single one of them (not sure if people were confused about that maybe I read wrong and have bad memory).[/QUOTE] I know its not, but the fact of the matter is that pppy still has control of everything related to osu!, and even if Tom wanted to release the calculation equations I doubt pppy would let him. The only things we know about the pp calculations are speculation.

I held the mouse backwards in my left hand and did three songs on it. Back to normal and it feels completely fucked, like it doesn't feel right at all now.

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;44286554]I held the mouse backwards in my left hand and did three songs on it. Back to normal and it feels completely fucked, like it doesn't feel right at all now.[/QUOTE] Well then time to become the FP's first backwards mouse player.

[QUOTE=reevezy67;44282696]I can't use it without the coloured notes. What were the colour values for the rows in 0.4? i.e. pink on the second to outer keys and yellow in the middle.[/QUOTE] replace the bottom of 7k.ini with this: (hopefully you can figure out the other modes based on this. they already have most of the values there, they're just all W) [code]//ColumnImages KeyImage0: mania-keyW KeyImage0D: mania-keyWD KeyImage1: mania-keyR KeyImage1D: mania-keyRD KeyImage2: mania-keyW KeyImage2D: mania-keyWD KeyImage3: mania-keyS KeyImage3D: mania-keySD KeyImage4: mania-keyW KeyImage4D: mania-keyWD KeyImage5: mania-keyR KeyImage5D: mania-keyRD KeyImage6: mania-keyW KeyImage6D: mania-keyWD //noteimages NoteImage0: mania-noteW NoteImage0L: mania-noteWL NoteImage0H: mania-noteWH NoteImage1: mania-noteR NoteImage1L: mania-noteRL NoteImage1H: mania-noteRH NoteImage2: mania-noteW NoteImage2L: mania-noteWL NoteImage2H: mania-noteWH NoteImage3: mania-noteS NoteImage3L: mania-noteSL NoteImage3H: mania-noteSH NoteImage4: mania-noteW NoteImage4L: mania-noteWL NoteImage4H: mania-noteWH NoteImage5: mania-noteR NoteImage5L: mania-noteRL NoteImage5H: mania-noteRH NoteImage6: mania-noteW NoteImage6L: mania-noteWL NoteImage6H: mania-noteWH[/code] W=white, R=red, S=yellow. feel free to move them around if you want. you can even mix them together and make a weird mixed color one If you don't want colored lanes behind everything, you can replace it with something like this: [code]//Colours Colour1: 50,50,50,255 Colour2: 45,45,45,255 Colour3: 50,50,50,255 Colour4: 40,40,40,255 Colour5: 50,50,50,255 Colour6: 45,45,45,255 Colour7: 50,50,50,255[/code] or just make them all 40,40,40,255 if you don't want a slight variance in their colors