Paradox Interactive Thread: V3 'Check out my sick Germany blob' - Games

The whole "but it's all cosmetic!" or "it's a useless expansion!" argument doesn't make any sense because it justifies creating extra content for a charge rather than having it with the base game. Don't tell me "oh the portraits are optional!" because we all know that everyone that says "eh it's optional" ends up buying them anyways because Paradox is too willing to charge you money so Mongols and Arabs don't look 1:1 and that there's actual variety in Europeans. It's forcing you to pay for content that should otherwise come stock standard with the game. Want the Umayyads to not have a [I][B]NORSE[/B][/I] dynastic shield? Pay up. When people say "it's all cosmetic maaaan" they forget that it's [I]crucial[/I] to have someone be immersed in their game. Having Genghis Khan look like the dude from the kebab shop is not immersive.

You literally have to pay money to see black people in CK2.

Seriously I want to fucking buy Stellaris but I don't trust Paradox not to be greedy, lazy fucking shits and that's a horrible kind of limbo to be in, because with my heart I want to support them but my brain tells me that's a bad idea based on what has transpired. I think I'll just observe and see what they do.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50162895] they have another game that has yet to be announced in development.[/QUOTE]I thought that was that medieval fantasy game they announced a while ago

That is is only being published by them, not developed.

Paradox can be considered greedy solely for the fact when i buy a dlc i have to pay more money to buy a facepack, music pack, and unit pack that really should be included in the dlc itself rather than making me pay 25~ dollars all together to get everything that should be included in the base dlc

[QUOTE=EnlightenDead;50163154]Paradox can be considered greedy solely for the fact when i buy a dlc i have to pay more money to buy a facepack, music pack, and unit pack that really should be included in the dlc itself rather than making me pay 25~ dollars all together to get everything that should be included in the base dlc[/QUOTE] Oh, how I miss the good old days when we had expansion packs that gave you several gigabytes worth of content and fresh material to play with. Now the model has shifted towards nickle-and-dime DLC.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50161885]Stop with the bullshit, neither of those games cost $200 to get into, they're both fully playable with just the base game. Your $200 price tag is also total bullshit, it only comes to that if you factor in the cosmetic DLC, which is not needed to play the game. You can cut the price down even further by skipping useless expansions like Rajas of India or Conquest of Paradise.[/quote] Ah yes, a price tag of roughly $125 for the base game and the content expansions is so much better. The base game is dogshit, don't even pretend otherwise. [quote] Your logic here makes no sense at all, you're skeptical of the game because of the dev diaries, which makes sense, but then when you're given a chance to see the game in detail through a live stream you refuse because..?[/QUOTE] It makes perfect sense, the live streams in no way represent the final product considering it still subject to changes/development/Q&A. Paradox is notorious for releasing products with gobs of bugs and exploits.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50163606]When is the last time you've actually played base EU IV or CK2? They're completely playable, especially if you're someone new to these games.[/quote] I can barely even stand to play the games unmodded, much less just vanilla missing a massive chunk of their content. "Especially if your someone new to these games" could easily be spun as "they're only good because you haven't actually experienced them at their best", you shouldn't have to gimp your experience because you can't afford all the extra shit despite paradox apparently having no problem releasing complete collections of their previous games with all the DLC for roughly the same price as the base game. [quote]You're still not making any sense, the game comes out [B]in less than twenty days[/B], aside from bugs or placeholder text what you're seeing in the most recent live streams is the final product. They're not going to radically change the game in a little over half a month.[/QUOTE] Congratulations, you ignored literally the entirety of what I said about bugs. They can stream all they want, I'm of the opinion that watching someone else play is in no way the same as actually playing the game yourself. They can show me all they want, but until I actually have the chance to experience it for myself I expect nothing.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50163606]When is the last time you've actually played base EU IV or CK2? They're completely playable, especially if you're someone new to these games.[/QUOTE] A majority of the players will be people who [I]aren't[/I] new to these games.

Like, Atlascore you even said their DLC practice was bad. I don't see how them not being EA levels of bad suddenly makes $100+ of content DLC and another $100+ of cosmetic DLC suddenly ok. Bad is bad and deserves criticism that isn't sprinkled with "but at least they aren't as bad as x!"

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50162895]Uh How is Paradox greedy? They've continuously added new & free content to both EU IV and CK2, the latest EU IV patch in particular came with far more features than the accompanying expansion itself. Lazy? What. They've been consistently releasing content for two of their previous games, while simultaneously having two new games in heavy development, [I]and[/I] they have another game that has yet to be announced in development.[/QUOTE] They've continually paywalled a lot of very important features into the base games, and still overpriced a lot of their DLC. I like Paradox, and I like the DLCs they make, but the prices are just absurdly high. If it were any other company I likely wouldn't have bought as much of their DLC as I have.

It's pretty strange seeing people call Paradox cancerous and scummy when they are pretty renowned to be people of the community everywhere else I go, the fact they improved their DLC model and patching (each patch giving shite tons of features for free), made it so you don't need ANY DLCs to play with your friends (only the host needs them), openly listen to the community and its requests, do shit tons of work to make sure modding is completely accessible and are extremely awesome publishers to people like Obsidian, the City Skyline guys and the Magicka devs. They are also extremely involved in the community and have the balls to admit when they are wrong. I mean, I don't agree with everything they do and some of the DLC can be questionable, but I really don't see where you guys are coming from when paradox are considered no better than people like EA, SEGA or Capcom. I truly don't get it. I don't get how Valve are considered the golden standard of gaming companies around here when Paradox does way more for the community than Valve ever did.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50163821]It's pretty strange seeing people call Paradox cancerous and scummy when they are pretty renowned to be people of the community everywhere else I go, the fact they improved their DLC model and patching (each patch giving shite tons of features for free), made it so you don't need ANY DLCs to play with your friends (only the host needs them), openly listen to the community and its requests, do shit tons of work to make sure modding is completely accessible and are extremely awesome publishers to people like Obsidian, the City Skyline guys and the Magicka devs. They are also extremely involved in the community and have the balls to admit when they are wrong. I mean, I don't agree with everything they do and some of the DLC can be questionable, but I really don't see where you guys are coming from when paradox are considered no better than people like EA, SEGA or Capcom. I truly don't get it. I don't get how Valve are considered the golden standard of gaming companies around here when Paradox does way more for the community than Valve ever did.[/QUOTE] I'm not really sure where you're going to see people hailing paradox because multiple places I've been to have people being highly critical of them. The only places I've seen them universally hailed are the Paradox forums themselves, and there even minor criticisms have people jumping down your throats and there's been a few instances of Wiz or Johan either banning people or basically telling them to just of fuck themselves. Also lets not forget that people have been clamoring for it to be harder to maintain large blobs of countries for literally years and several games yet Paradox just goes and decides to completely ignore this and adds coalitions to CKII that were only changed due to massive backlash by the community.

I don't think I've heard anyone call Valve the golden standard for MANY years. Also you can be critical of something even if you still like it.

[QUOTE=Anderan;50163848]I'm not really sure where you're going to see people hailing paradox because multiple places I've been to have people being highly critical of them. The only places I've seen them universally hailed are the Paradox forums themselves, and there even minor criticisms have people jumping down your throats and there's been a few instances of Wiz or Johan either banning people or basically telling them to just of fuck themselves.[/QUOTE] Something Awful, Reddit and I think 4chan adore Paradox. Paradox also interact with people on the first two so I guess that happens but still, Paradox have a pretty solid rep as a community and mod friendly company.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50163897]Something Awful, Reddit and I think 4chan adore Paradox. Paradox also interact with people on the first two so I guess that happens but still, Paradox have a pretty solid rep as a community and mod friendly company.[/QUOTE] The fuck are you on if you think 4chan adores Paradox. The gsg thread is literally full of people calling Johan a shill. They like the, games not the company, and even that second part is subject to debate at times. Reddit is... well Reddit, it's not exactly known for being open to dissenting opinions. Never go on SA. [editline]19th April 2016[/editline] Seriously, most of Paradox's improvements have only come after massive backlash from the community. I don't so much see that as "listening to the community" as it is back peddling since it always seems to take said backlash before they make any significant changes.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;50163999]You want bugs? Then you should really watch the streams because they've had quite a few embarrassing bugs pop up while playing.[/QUOTE] I don't really see how this is supposed to make me excited for the game then, Paradox is, again, notorious for release bugs. Livestreaming the game isn't going to suddenly change this. I have better things to do than watch people I don't care about play a game I'm only vaguely looking forward to. It can LOOK good and all but again, until it's installed on my computer and I'm the one playing it I'm withholding all opinions of the game, good or bad.

The last truly buggy game Paradox released was 6 years ago with Vic II. CK2 and EU4 were seriously solid at release and Stellaris will probably be the same judging by the streams and the youtuber beta testers.

[QUOTE=SeamanStains;50162779]Seriously I want to fucking buy Stellaris but I don't trust Paradox not to be greedy, lazy fucking shits and that's a horrible kind of limbo to be in, because with my heart I want to support them but my brain tells me that's a bad idea based on what has transpired. I think I'll just observe and see what they do.[/QUOTE] That's why I won't get Stellaris nor HoI4 for a few months til they fix the issues (let's face it, there will be plenty of gameplay/technical issues at the release) and release all the borderline microtransaction DLCs so that I'll know what I'll be paying for. Hell, I was hyped for a new hoi game since they announced East vs West..

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50164056]The last truly buggy game Paradox released was 6 years ago with Vic II. CK2 and EU4 were seriously solid at release and Stellaris will probably be the same judging by the streams and the youtuber beta testers.[/QUOTE] Apparently you've already forgotten the utterly broken state of coalitions in CKII when they were released where a single war could literally have most of the major powers joining coalitions against you regardless of religion despite the devs saying explicitly that such a thing would not be possible. It's not like "I'll wait for it to release to form an opinion" is an unusual thing and suddenly invalidated because Paradox livestreams.

[QUOTE=Anderan;50164193]Apparently you've already forgotten the utterly broken state of coalitions in CKII when they were released where a single war could literally have most of the major powers joining coalitions against you regardless of religion despite the devs saying explicitly that such a thing would not be possible. It's not like "I'll wait for it to release to form an opinion" is an unusual thing and suddenly invalidated because Paradox livestreams.[/QUOTE] dude holy shit what crawled up your ass to make you post like this here? did your mom make you liver and onions for dinner or something?

Yeah CKII vanilla is perfectly playable. The same way Civ 5 vanilla is perfectly playable. The expansions add so much that when you go back and play vanilla it feels like a demo. Difference is after two thirty dollar expansions, Civ feels like a full experience, but after that much CK2 dlc you still lack a lot of shit. Also the best mods require you to have all the DLCs.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;50163897]Something Awful, Reddit and I think 4chan adore Paradox. Paradox also interact with people on the first two so I guess that happens but still, Paradox have a pretty solid rep as a community and mod friendly company.[/QUOTE] I can't speak for SA, but /GSG/ hates Paradox and the CK2 subreddit has gone from loving them to basically condemning their dlc releases and dev diaries because of how lackluster they are. Also just because people like them doesn't make them a good company. Paradox really only gets away with the DLC fuckery because they're the only company who really does this type of game well.

[QUOTE=EnlightenDead;50164426]but /GSG/ hates Paradox[/QUOTE] That doesn't even begin to describe it :v:

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50164497]That doesn't even begin to describe it :v:[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure there is some sort of unstated requirement that at least 30% of the posts in the thread must call Johan a jew or a shill.

Nothing prevents people from simply not buying the DLC if you don't want to support the company's policies on post-release expansions... The fact that Paradox continues to support their games for years after release with numerous free patches and corresponding DLC should be indicative of their desire to court and maintain a core audience for each game and their products as a whole. If the DLC is so overpriced, why do so many people buy them? The fact that you can buy a game for $40 and subsequently spend $160 on DLC expansions over the next 2-4 years is immaterial. How else is the company supposed to make a profit to pay their bills and employees to continue supporting the games you like to play? Its pretty likely that people would rather not want to have to buy a copy of CRUSADER KINGS (SEQUEL NUMBER): EXTREME (YEAR) EDITION each and every year. People should be happy that the company supports the game and thus the customers at all, really. I'm totally fine with buying DLC for CK2 and EU4, as long as it is reasonably priced. Some of the DLC doesn't deserve to be $16-20 each, or more than $10 for that matter. However, all the additional music, skins, sprites and cosmetics are absolutely fucking pointless, ie. trivial, and add almost nothing to any of the games. There really is no solid reason to be complaining about cosmetics when you don't even need to buy them to enjoy the game. You only buy them to support Paradox, which is also true for all of the actual gameplay expansions. TL;DR: Stellaris' future DLC and current pre-order DLC is/are fine because it means they (PDX) will actually patch the game and add new content later on as opposed to shovelling it out and abandoning it within a few months. [sp]if people really want to be idiots about getting DLC expansions, then simply >don't pay< for them at all...[/sp]

CK2/EU4 are really only expensive if want to buy them now. If you started with CK2 from the beginning it wasn't that bad until they started releasing DLC more frequently. There was enough time between the big ones. [editline]19th April 2016[/editline] CK2/EU4 DLC usually gets really cheap during steam sales

[QUOTE=Gunar;50164539] However, all the additional music, skins, sprites and cosmetics are absolutely fucking pointless, ie. trivial, and add almost nothing to any of the games. There really is no solid reason to be complaining about cosmetics when you don't even need to buy them to enjoy the game. [/QUOTE] Ah yes, cosmetic and adding nothing to the game, such as King Mtumbo Kimbe of Mali and his african Kingdom. [img]http://puu.sh/ooK2W/dbd9b19b06.jpg[/img] If you are going to build a game on realism and immersion, dont put entire races behind a paywall. I sure do love when the Mongols come down from the steppes looking like disgruntled peasants from Egypt. And the fact that the cosmetics are released alongside each big DLC release, as practically cut content. Want your saxons to actually look like saxons when you buy the DLC, well now you get to purchase another three dollars on top of the 15.

Those DLCs aren't even produced by the main Paradox team lol, but by a small indie company called Paradox south who support paradox by producing music, unit sprites and ck2 portrait dlcs. And when it's priced at the cost of a chocolate bar I can hardly complain...