It's very easy to make most attempts at balancing.
Listen to feedback, or maybe look at statistics, or playtest.
Change some numbers.
You're good, or at least better.
Repeat.
There was another poll, that I'm pretty sure a Facepuncher did and it showed that most of the 343i stuff like sprinting and ADS was near enough a 50/50 split in the community.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51833134]If you're going to cite a poll, link it, because I have evidence that proves the contrary:
Lastly, if 343's take on Halo is so well liked, why is the total population absolute trash compared to the Bungie days? Reach saw a small/moderate decline from Halo 3, but Halo 4 absolutely tanked
after a few weeks. Now we see that Halo 5 doesn't even appear in the top ten most played games on Xbox Live, a little over a year since it came out.
[url]https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/most-played/games/xbox[/url]
So how do you rationalize that?[/QUOTE]
Because Halo 5 had a very lackluster launch and not as many people bought it at the time after being previously burned by MCC and Halo 4. Halo 5 is doing quite well for a game that wasn't going to be a "smash hit" like Titanfall 2, the Division and Battlefront. Those who have played Halo 5 generally enjoy the gameplay, it's smooth, fluid and has much better balancing than Reach or Halo 4. There's still room for improvement, but I would gladly argue that it's closer to traditional Halo than either of those games in that it's a level playing field.
All I want is Sprint, Spartan Charge and Smart Scope gone and I'm happy.
I think Spartan Charge is fine but I'm also an asshole that used Shoulder Charge all the time in Destiny
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51833387]All I want is Sprint, Spartan Charge and Smart Scope gone and I'm happy.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. Sprint is a nuisance because it negatively impacts map design and dumbs down the gameplay by giving people a much larger window to
escape from a situation where they fucked up. It simply doesn't mesh well with Halo's slower TTK. They should have just increased the base movement speed
like people were suggesting before Halo 5 was revealed.
I'm 100% okay with thrusters, however.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51832430]
I mean, they kind of are ruining everything, though. We now have to deal with the god awful Created bullshit, the terrible looking designs, etc. etc.
Like, who the fuck thought it was a good idea to throw Halo 4 out the window? It had a decent story despite being a little heavy handed on the expanded universe.
Not to mention that Halo 5 launched with a pitiful amount of content compared to its predecessors and then added old features the other games had as DLC.
But hey, it's free so it's all good! Right? Right...?[/quote]
I mean, they kindof are not. You're right about throwing Halo 4's story arc out the windows, not so much about everything else.... This "god awful created bullshit" is a huge asset to Halo 5, Halo has been all about creative freedom since Halo 3. Halo 5 launched with more than enough content to keep my busy until Forge/BTB/dropped. You are aware of how much work went into this game, and how little time they had to complete it, right? More time than they were given to complete the project. You seem to have a hate boner for 343 on factors that are our of their control. You can blame Microsoft for most of the crap you're going on about.
Other questionable shit they've done:
[QUOTE]- Keeping sprint and armor abilities[/QUOTE]
Oh no! Halo's gameplay matches now properly matches the lore of what Spartans can do, what are we going to?! Lol it's 2 years ago all over again! Sprint is in Halo now, last time I checked Bungie experimented with that before 343i was even a thing. I thought you said questionale shit, not your opinion of what does and doesn't belong in Halo.
[QUOTE]- Not launching with Big Team Battle
- Not making any dedicated maps for BTB
- Not changing BTB starts from BR/AR to AR/Magnum[/QUOTE]
BTB wasn't included at launch because of A. Time Constraints, they do have to work on a schedule ya know, one they don't set. B. Because of such time constraints Forge development got delayed, leading to BTB maps being delayed at launch as well. While I agree there should indeed be dedicated BTB maps, I also understand why there isn't, and not going to bitch about it. They chose to focus on Warzone development over dedicated BTB development. Last time I checked, weapon starts are also a matter of opinion, so how exactly is that "Questionable shit"?
[QUOTE]- Launching without social arena playlists[/quote]
You make the game they did, in the time they did and see how much content makes it into your game at launch. Would you rather them release all that content day 1 broken, or have them release it when it's ready. Either way there's gonna be someone like you complaining about it.
[quote]- RNG packs for unlocking cosmetics[/QUOTE]
Welcome to what the gaming industry is now, be happy it's just cosmetics.
[QUOTE]- Remixing old maps instead of making actual new ones[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but not a deal breaker.
[QUOTE]- Fireteam Osiris[/QUOTE]
Okay? Nobody here is going to argue that Halo 5's story was crap. Not sure how Osiris counts as questionable shit.
[QUOTE]- Taking a full year to do anything about horrible team balancing in Warzone. Taking months to bring Warzone Firefight to a manageable difficulty.[/QUOTE]
Do you not understand how game development works, things get fixed by priority, and they didn't do nothing for a full year, they simply didn't have a working solution.
[QUOTE]- A completely unnecessary change in designs[/QUOTE]
A completely unnecessary bullet point.
[QUOTE]- Finally adding classic helmets and then taking them away after two weeks in an obvious attempt to get people to spend money on them[/QUOTE]
You mean helmets you can still buy, or obtain in REQ packs?
[quote]I've pretty much lost all hope for the main series. Sure, 343's games have the Halo name on them,
but they sure as hell don't feel like Halo to me.[/QUOTE]
Okay, bye then. Nobody is forcing you to stay.
[editline]16th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Soul_;51833134]If you're going to cite a poll, link it, because I have evidence that proves the contrary:
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2qpdbm/surprising_poll_results_sprint_halo_does_the/"]See here[/URL]
[URL="http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8553-what-do-you-think-about-sprint-belonging-in-halo-5/"]See here[/URL]
So it's clearly not as cut and dry as you're making it to be.[/quote]
You are correct, polls do not make it clear cut, but atleast he's using current statistic, and not 2 year old data.
[QUOTE]Just because it's a "competitively focused game" doesn't justify not giving attention to something that's been a staple of the series since it launched in 2001. [/QUOTE]
Actually, it does but i'm done aruging with you because HALO WARS 2 IS LIVE ON PC!!!!!
[QUOTE=Niven;51833094]about to get a xbone with the master chief collection and finally play through all the halo games since i've never played any of them[/QUOTE]
I hope you have a good time and enjoy yourself, personally I will never forget the magic experienced when I sat down with little brother infront of an Xbox to play Combat Evolved for the first time.
[QUOTE=Delta616;51833974]-snip-[/QUOTE]
[I]"Oh no! Halo's gameplay matches now properly matches the lore of what Spartans can do, what are we going to?! Lol it's 2 years ago all over again! Sprint is in Halo now, last time I checked Bungie experimented with that before 343i was even a thing. I thought you said questionale shit, not your opinion of what does and doesn't belong in Halo."[/I]
Lore shouldn't dictate gameplay when it negatively impacts the game.
Here's what I said from a previous post: Sprint is a nuisance because it negatively impacts map design and dumbs down the gameplay by giving people a much larger window to
escape from a situation where they fucked up. It simply doesn't mesh well with Halo's slower TTK. They should have just increased the base movement speed
like people were suggesting before Halo 5 was revealed.
There's far more detailed arguments against it that I'm happy to share with you if you'd like.
Note that I also never said that it was good when Bungie did it, but at least it wasn't a standard feature that everyone had. And you're right, they did try working with sprint in Halo 2,
but cut it because it simply didn't work well. It didn't work well then, and still doesn't now.
Anyway, if you could come up with an argument beyond "muh lore" for keeping sprint, I'd love to hear it.
[I]"BTB wasn't included at launch because of A. Time Constraints, they do have to work on a schedule ya know, one they don't set. B. Because of such time constraints Forge development got delayed, leading to BTB maps being delayed at launch as well. While I agree there should indeed be dedicated BTB maps, I also understand why there isn't, and not going to bitch about it. They chose to focus on Warzone development over dedicated BTB development. Last time I checked, weapon starts are also a matter of opinion, so how exactly is that "Questionable shit"? "[/I]
The "time constraint" argument is such horseshit. They had [I]three years[/I] to develop this game and couldn't include it at launch?
Like I said before, that's the same amount of time between each mainline Halo game, but they somehow managed to launch with less content than the previous games.
That's both laughable and inexcusable.
[I]"You make the game they did, in the time they did and see how much content makes it into your game at launch. Would you rather them release all that content day 1 broken, or have them release it when it's ready. Either way there's gonna be someone like you complaining about it."[/I]
Game should be delayed until everything is ready.
[I]"Actually, it does..."[/I]
It actually doesn't, because Halo 2 and Halo 3 were competitive and still managed to have it.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252]
Note that I also never said that it was good when Bungie did it, but at least it wasn't a standard feature that everyone had. And you're right, they did try working with sprint in Halo 2,
but cut it because it simply didn't work well. It didn't work well then, and still doesn't now.[/QUOTE]
The industry moved towards a faster-paced movement system and the idea was that Halo had to keep up. This was started with Bungie, and 343 at least had the sense to make it standard so that you wouldn't be playing the rock-paper-scissors game of "What armor ability does my enemy have that can fuck me up?" that amplified the problems of Halo 3. It is now at the very least consistent and fair.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252]The "time constraint" argument is such horseshit. They had [I]three years[/I] to develop this game and couldn't include it at launch?
Like I said before, that's the same amount of time between each mainline Halo game, but they somehow managed to launch with less content than the previous games.
That's both laughable and inexcusable.[/QUOTE]
Three years, a surprising amount of which was devoted to overhauling the game engine and creating an entirely new major gamemode because Microsoft wants money.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252]
Game should be delayed until everything is ready.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, try that when your boss is Microsoft and see how well that goes.
apparently HW2 requires an xbox live sub to play MP even on PC
weeewwwww
[QUOTE=apurplerock;51834440]apparently HW2 requires an xbox live sub to play MP even on PC
weeewwwww[/QUOTE]
are you fucking kidding me
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51834459]are you fucking kidding me[/QUOTE]
i wish i was
[img]http://i.imgur.com/91huLsW.png[/img]
[url]https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/halo-wars-2-twenty-questions[/url]
[QUOTE=apurplerock;51834440]apparently HW2 requires an xbox live sub to play MP even on PC
weeewwwww[/QUOTE]
Thankfully that's not the case. That happened to me in the beta, rebooting my computer fixed that.
Or maybe not? I don't have Gold how am I playing online?
[QUOTE=Delta616;51834475]Thankfully that's not the case. That happened to me in the beta, rebooting my computer fixed that.
Or maybe not? I don't have Gold how am I playing online?[/QUOTE]
why-- by bending over and spending $60 a year for a subscription fee to play one game's multiplayer, of course! Right after spending $60 to actually buy the game in the first place
I finished my download of the game after I posted that. Haven't played any multiplayer but I got into matchmaking without needing XBL.
So far the game runs very well, but when a Blur cutscene is about to begin the framerate drops for a sec.
[QUOTE=apurplerock;51834514]why-- by bending over and spending $60 a year for a subscription fee to play one game's multiplayer, of course! Right after spending $60 to actually buy the game in the first place[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you don't need gold to play online, that FAQ is wrong. Played 5 rounds of blitz no problem with friends who don't even own an xbox and never subbed to gold. And my gold has been on hold since December. If it's giving you that message, it's by mistake it happened to me twice in the beta.
[editline]17th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252]
Lore shouldn't dictate gameplay when it negatively impacts the game.[/QUOTE]
"Negatively impacts gameplay." That is your opinion, not shared by everyone, or the devs.
[QUOTE]Here's what I said from a previous post: Sprint is a nuisance because it negatively impacts map design and dumbs down the gameplay by giving people a much larger window to
escape from a situation where they fucked up. It simply doesn't mesh well with Halo's slower TTK. They should have just increased the base movement speed
like people were suggesting before Halo 5 was revealed. [/QUOTE]
Another great example of, that's your opinion. Not shared by everyone.
[quote]There's far more detailed arguments against it that I'm happy to share with you if you'd like.[/quote]
Not really, I have little desire to argue with jerks anymore than I already I am.
[QUOTE]
Note that I also never said that it was good when Bungie did it, but at least it wasn't a standard feature that everyone had. And you're right, they did try working with sprint in Halo 2,
but cut it because it simply didn't work well. It didn't work well then, and still doesn't now.[/QUOTE]
Still waiting for something that's not an opinion. Some people like Sprint in Halo for good reason, some people don't for good reason. Vis versa. I love playing Halo 5 with sprint and AA just as much as I love playing Halo without it. Boo fucking hoo.
[QUOTE]Anyway, if you could come up with an argument beyond "muh lore" for keeping sprint, I'd love to hear it.[/QUOTE]
Lol
[QUOTE]
The "time constraint" argument is such horseshit. They had [I]three years[/I] to develop this game and couldn't include it at launch?
Like I said before, that's the same amount of time between each mainline Halo game, but they somehow managed to launch with less content than the previous games.
That's both laughable and inexcusable[/QUOTE].
No man, your understanding of how the gaming industry works, and what they did in those 3 years is horseshit. 343 was tasked with reworking the engine, gameplay, and story rewrites. Then Warzone consumed a hell of a lot of development resources and money. "LIKE I SAID BEFORE" means nothing when you have no clue to what you're complaining about. 343 did a hell of alot of work on Halo 5 in the small amount of time they we're given. 3 years to do everything that they did in a stable manner is pretty impressive. They made exactly what MS told them to make, in the order they made it.
[QUOTE]Game should be delayed until everything is ready.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, go ahead and tell that to the entire gaming industry, and the bulk of it's mindless consumers. Your telling us something we already know and agree on.
[I]"Actually, it does..."[/I]
[quote]It actually doesn't, because Halo 2 and Halo 3 were competitive and still managed to have it.[/quote]
It does when you're not the one calling the shots on those factors. Stop trying to shit all over the devs for factors out of their control, start bitching at Microsoft.
Whatever. This is just going to be an endless cycle that goes nowhere.
I'm done.
Holy shit. [sp]Enduring Conviction getting blown apart was by far the most badass things I've ever seen in Halo.[/sp]
Halo sprint would've been better if it was more like half life 2's omnidirectional sprint.
Just finished the HW2 campaign. Ending is abrupt, a lot of questions left completely unanswered, but overall it was actually pretty good.
I'm just waiting for someone to upload all the cutscenes
[QUOTE=Soul_;51833134]If you're going to cite a poll, link it, because I have evidence that proves the contrary:
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/2qpdbm/surprising_poll_results_sprint_halo_does_the/"]See here[/URL]
[URL="http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8553-what-do-you-think-about-sprint-belonging-in-halo-5/"]See here[/URL]
So it's clearly not as cut and dry as you're making it to be.
Just because it's a "competitively focused game" doesn't justify not giving attention to something that's been a staple of the series since it launched in 2001.
Bungie was capable of creating a wide variety of maps for both arena combat and larger scale battles in their standard three year development cycle for Halo games.
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the same from 343 since they had three years between Halo 4 and Halo 5. Same applies to social playlists.
[I]"If they did you'd bitch that they weren't good."[/I]
Nice straw man argument.
[I]"Warzone not a priority to the team compared to competitive balances"[/I]
Citation, please.
[I]"Subjective opinion, suck a dick"[/I]
One that I'm fairly sure I'm not in the minority for.
[I]"You had to spend money on them either way, wtf are you talking about"[/I]
Are you dumb? You could spend 150k RP or $10 on the pack to get them all. Removing the pack after two weeks (and not putting them in the REQ pool) makes it [I]blatantly[/I] obvious they want people to spend money on them.
Greed at its finest.
Lastly, if 343's take on Halo is so well liked, why is the total population absolute trash compared to the Bungie days? Reach saw a small/moderate decline from Halo 3, but Halo 4 absolutely tanked
after a few weeks. Now we see that Halo 5 doesn't even appear in the top ten most played games on Xbox Live, a little over a year since it came out.
[url]https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/most-played/games/xbox[/url]
So how do you rationalize that?[/QUOTE]
Honestly it's only small groups of people who actually like what 343i is doing
Halo 2 was incredibly rushed and it still had BTB and offered one of the best multiplayer experience all the way to Halo 3's release
I honestly hate the REQ system and wish I could just purchase the armour I want through credits like Halo: Reach
The REQ system is why maps are free
[QUOTE=Tuskin;51835963]The REQ system is why maps are free[/QUOTE]
Eh give me the option to spend my REQ points on REQ packs or specific armour
Halo wars 2 was pretty "meh" I beat it in around 3 hours and 30 minutes (lol) on heroic watching all cutscenes. The fact that the AI can use multiple abilities at the same time and don't have to deal with Fog of War or me microing my units to avoid the ability is literally rage inducing. You build up an army to get perma locked in a cycle of leader abilities (1 that also stuns). There was also a few bugs, and the story ended pretty abrupt.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252][I]"Oh no! Halo's gameplay matches now properly matches the lore of what Spartans can do, what are we going to?! Lol it's 2 years ago all over again! Sprint is in Halo now, last time I checked Bungie experimented with that before 343i was even a thing. I thought you said questionale shit, not your opinion of what does and doesn't belong in Halo."[/I]
Lore shouldn't dictate gameplay when it negatively impacts the game.
Here's what I said from a previous post: Sprint is a nuisance because it negatively impacts map design and dumbs down the gameplay by giving people a much larger window to
escape from a situation where they fucked up. It simply doesn't mesh well with Halo's slower TTK. They should have just increased the base movement speed
like people were suggesting before Halo 5 was revealed.
There's far more detailed arguments against it that I'm happy to share with you if you'd like.
Note that I also never said that it was good when Bungie did it, but at least it wasn't a standard feature that everyone had. And you're right, they did try working with sprint in Halo 2,
but cut it because it simply didn't work well. It didn't work well then, and still doesn't now.
Anyway, if you could come up with an argument beyond "muh lore" for keeping sprint, I'd love to hear it.
[I]"BTB wasn't included at launch because of A. Time Constraints, they do have to work on a schedule ya know, one they don't set. B. Because of such time constraints Forge development got delayed, leading to BTB maps being delayed at launch as well. While I agree there should indeed be dedicated BTB maps, I also understand why there isn't, and not going to bitch about it. They chose to focus on Warzone development over dedicated BTB development. Last time I checked, weapon starts are also a matter of opinion, so how exactly is that "Questionable shit"? "[/I]
The "time constraint" argument is such horseshit. They had [I]three years[/I] to develop this game and couldn't include it at launch?
Like I said before, that's the same amount of time between each mainline Halo game, but they somehow managed to launch with less content than the previous games.
That's both laughable and inexcusable.
[I]"You make the game they did, in the time they did and see how much content makes it into your game at launch. Would you rather them release all that content day 1 broken, or have them release it when it's ready. Either way there's gonna be someone like you complaining about it."[/I]
Game should be delayed until everything is ready.
[I]"Actually, it does..."[/I]
It actually doesn't, because Halo 2 and Halo 3 were competitive and still managed to have it.[/QUOTE]
You're being very objective about things that are purely opinion based. How about you calm down and stop arguing?
but to add to your request for other reasons to keep sprint, IMO it just feels better. Ever since I first played Halo:CE at the age of 7 or 8, I was frustrated by the inability to sprint. The game felt slow and clunky.
Just beat the Campaign, and I bet [sp]the actual ending will be locked behind story mode DLC, because fucking hell the ending happens just like that, super abrupt and it's got 2 unresolved cliffhangers[/sp] that said [sp]ooooOOOOoooo that post credit scene, I fucking knew that ring was the one in the Halo 5 ending, Classic and Modern halo are most definitely gonna merge now[/sp]
despite the advertising and build up, [sp]there's not a whole lot Atriox at all, only a few conversations towards the end[/sp] which I can't say I'm not disappointed in
Most all, the game was surprisingly short, took me about 4 / 5 hours
[QUOTE=Soul_;51834252]
The "time constraint" argument is such horseshit. They had [I]three years[/I] to develop this game and couldn't include it at launch?
Like I said before, that's the same amount of time between each mainline Halo game, but they somehow managed to launch with less content than the previous games.
That's both laughable and inexcusable.[/QUOTE]
Okay this is just straight up wrong and you are being an asshole. This is at the level of stubbornness that would drive me to break someone's nose. To complete a game in 3 years is a fucking achievement, did you not watch The Sprint? Those guys worked their asses off.
Why do people have this false pretence that game design and 3D modelling is straight forward and easy? People in the creative industries work their asses off and get little to no recognition for it. 99% of the time, artists don't even own the work they create.
Don't even get me started on actual game design - there's so many variables in design and psychology that means no one can make any factual statements about game design. I've heard numerous designers say they still don't really know what they're doing - that's why GDC is so important, because everyone is learning from eachother.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;51835931]Honestly it's only small groups of people who actually like what 343i is doing[/QUOTE]
Honestly, stop trying to measure something you can't.
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The Halo Thread V13: Great, this guy's OP again?
