Ever since I realized the near-total lack of drones/robots in Halo outside of a handful of aerial drones, that little "omission" (it's weird to say even that because that implies it's intentional) has felt like one of the most glaring holes in canon to me and it chafes on me whenever I remember. Why not make thousands of autonomous (or AI-controlled) combat drones to supplement infantry or vehicle forces, especially in the face of such devastating losses?
The only thing I can think of besides "that's not as cool" or "it doesn't fit the tone" is that there are tight laws governing the use of robotics in warfare or something like that, like a futuristic Geneva protocol, and there have been for a long time (like centuries) so that when the Covenant rolls around, nobody thinks to roll out an army of robots.
it feels mostly like a case of not fitting the tone
you can't get that "desperate fight of survival" feel if all your comrades are walking toasters. of course you can imprint personality on robots too as seen in lots of media, but it'll be much easier for the average player to sympathize with human characters instead.
another point about this are the forerunner enemies in 4 and 5. less refined AI and combat patterns surely play a huge part in making them less fun to fight but I'd bet the fact that you're fighting robots probably plays into it as well
killing robots in games isn't generally very satisfying unless the game is Binary Domain
In spite of how much I love the Forerunner Trilogy and Halo 4's story, the Prometheans are so fucking dull and boring. There's nothing believable or interesting about them; Grunts run in terror and Elites roar in terror, but Crawlers run straight to their death and Knights fart out Watchers. They've got nothing to back up why they need to be a front-and-center threat in Halo's modern era.
Where the hell did the Sentinels go? Or the War Sphinxes? The Prometheans could be a contender for the Covenant's place if the Didact had returned in Halo 5 and the concept of Guardians got canned. Having an actual Forerunner faction going around fucking over cities and composing everything; Sangheili, Yanme'e, Unggoy, San'Shyuum, Jiralhanae (great way to introduce new species too) in the hopes of stopping the imminent Flood invasion and destroying them forever. Instead we have four types of Yes Men that do the wishes of anyone good at hacking.
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51904816]So, post-Halo 5, what's everyone's thoughts on the Halo franchise in general? Do you believe there's hope for the franchise, or that Halo 6 will be another huge blunder? etc[/QUOTE]
It's doomed. They're taking the gameplay and story in horrid directions.
[QUOTE=Soul_;51965543]It's doomed. They're taking the gameplay and story in horrid directions.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's doomed. I also don't think Halo 6 will fix every problem with 343's direction but they have shown to be listening to the fanbase. People ask for Reach stuff? Reach stuff gets added in. Community mass-upvotes post highlighting issues with radar in competitive? Radar is now getting tweaked to better match Halo 5's systems. Issues with the [I]campaign's[/I] balance? That gets fixed too.
By no means is 343 perfect, sure. But they've shown that they're listening. Halo 5's multiplayer seems to have left a good enough impression on the gaming industry as a whole to give Halo 6 a good start at the very least.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;51963744]it feels mostly like a case of not fitting the tone
you can't get that "desperate fight of survival" feel if all your comrades are walking toasters. of course you can imprint personality on robots too as seen in lots of media, but it'll be much easier for the average player to sympathize with human characters instead.
another point about this are the forerunner enemies in 4 and 5. less refined AI and combat patterns surely play a huge part in making them less fun to fight but I'd bet the fact that you're fighting robots probably plays into it as well
killing robots in games isn't generally very satisfying unless the game is Binary Domain[/QUOTE]
If a robot dies from just getting shot a bunch there isn't a difference between an organic enemy. It's also lazy as the way you make fighting robots cool is having their body get blown into chunks but it still wanting to kill you until you finally put it down.
At some point in Halo 5's development, robot enemies were planned.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/h2UYDF4.jpg[/img]
They would have been tools of Insurrectionists and you would have fought them.
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51965935]At some point in Halo 5's development, robot enemies were planned.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/h2UYDF4.jpg[/img]
They would have been tools of Insurrectionists and you would have fought them.[/QUOTE]
First I've heard of this being Insurrectionist concept art, since there's this as well:
[IMG]https://www.halopedia.org/images/4/49/H5-ConceptArt-JohnCloakedSniperAndRobot.jpg[/IMG]
Don't suppose you've got a source? I always wondered what the story was behind this stuff since they didn't fit with UNSC or Forerunner styles. Halo 5 had a lot of really good concept art, like the War Sphinx:
[IMG]http://oi68.tinypic.com/2060f3m.jpg[/IMG]
I think I've said this before, but the main issue with Prometheans are the [i]faces,[/i] especially considering the other types of sentinels we've seen. Yeah, they're supposed to be composed humans and all, but come on.
Guess the Forerunners are space weebs after all.
[QUOTE=Icy Fire;51966025]I think I've said this before, but the main issue with Prometheans are the [i]faces,[/i] especially considering the other types of sentinels we've seen. Yeah, they're supposed to be composed humans and all, but come on.
Guess the Forerunners are space weebs after all.[/QUOTE]
If you take away a lot of the faces and replace them with a singular eye, make them a bit more angular instead of organic, then you have much better looking enemies, and ones that look, ya know, Forerunner.
Also less floaty bits.
Floaty bits are central to Promethean aesthetic but it's overdone to the extreme for the sake of being sci-fi and "alien", makes everything just look weak, and unstructured
Prometheans suck in general though, they're just a cheap forerunner imitation of the covenant, boring to fight and even worse to use what they use
[QUOTE=Soul_;51965543]It's doomed. They're taking the gameplay and story in horrid directions.[/QUOTE]
I think Halo 5 has the best gameplay in the series but you're not wrong about the story
[QUOTE=optimussentinel;51966075]If you take away a lot of the faces and replace them with a singular eye, make them a bit more angular instead of organic, then you have much better looking enemies, and ones that look, ya know, Forerunner.
Also less floaty bits.[/QUOTE]
This is early concept art of the Knight from Halo 4, it looks closer to the original Forerunner aesthetic:
[t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d8/H4-Concept-Early-Knight.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130923004553[/t]
I think the UNSC don't need much to make them seem like a modern military.
What they already got:
Advanced Heads up displays.
Armour, sometimes semi-powered (ODST) and vacuum sealed.
Infantry weapons
Vehicles
I think, while it might be there for a gameplay feature that just happens to be cool tech/lore wise, the fact that you can drive Scorpion tanks with just one person is very much above what tanks do now. There seems to be something against computers/remote control vehicles (maybe they get hacked? It might have something to do with rampant AI getting a hold of dumb AI) but otherwise code and mechanics can do as much as possible to limit the personel requirement to as close to one as possible.
What they need.
Probably those 4-rotor flying drones. Maybe one per squad. That can scout, drop bombs, and snipe.
On occasion, automated turrets on tracks (tiny robot tanks)
And, for that AI fear, Both of these are closely linked with their squad (protocol probably has them self destruct if all squad members are killed)
Like, that's the only thing that's really needed that'd be very visible in a Halo game. I think the bigger advancement is how helmets and those eye patches can add to stuff.
I watched Generation kill recently (set in the invasion of Iraq, so before all the terrifying robots were used. I'd recommend it) and the biggest issue they had was communications with command: The wrong stuff would get the airstrike, command wouldn't know what the marines see/their situation, they had a point where they weren't sure of the loyalties of armed iraqis, and had to communicate with their command for orders/permision (I doubt that'd be a problem with most of the covenant war, but it could be an issue with insurgents and later, the schism)
Now, given the information age and add a century (five isn't necessary), I think the UNSC would've improved on their communications, and I think marines could probably, almost seamlessly, work with drones, robots, and command. Perhaps a soldier selects targets for a remote mortar, drone, or whatever without need of the command structure. Maybe hidden cameras around the battlefield offer knowledge to both marines, commanders, and the air force (also, maybe the airforce just don't need to get airstrike permission, since they can clearly see what's on the ground with tech advancements) Maybe a big bonus for marines is simply that they can see what other marines can see, or that they can mark enemies on their hud for other marines to see.
Very little of that actually comes into you playing the Master Chief. Most of this is just really small details, most of it's in a marines HUD.
Maybe some of it could have been armour abilities, or equipment (calling down a mortar isn't much different to throwing a giant ball of energy sap). It doesn't have to be cod-style bullshit where you open up a laptop and control the missile, you just point a laser somewhere or say some co-ordinates.
I think if you saw the odd mortar (perhaps an automated mortar?) or back of the field, long range artilery (I guess you see covenant artillery). Predator drone successors, or maybe saw a marine do a quick, tech aided call-in for support without haggling with command, it'd be a nice touch
I think there was a tool that called strikes down in 4, but honestly you could have it all in a helmet.
all the scifi shit we have today wasn't even thought of by game developers 16 years ago, so it makes sense for it to have not been in halo and if i'm being honest it's better without all the high tech shit in the game because it'd just take the fun right out of it
you'd get shit like "woah dude master chief 30 tangos in that vector oscar fuck kilo kilo" and all that stupid shit that shows up in modern cod, halo has always been infantry based and taking that out of the campaign just wouldn't be fun and it doesn't make sense anyway. Why would a spartan use somethin like a predator drone when he can just go into a situation and start blasting away with a gun and probably produce the same effect/killcount
The simplicity works better in halo's favour because it's not over complicated horseshit, a campaign level can be something a simple as hopping into your space pig car and running over some alien bastards, turning that into some faux realistic sci fi tech stuff calling in predator drones and car packages and stuff would kill halo's identity instantly (like some parts of it's identity already have been, cough elites, cough 60% of GEN2 armour)
[QUOTE=Soul_;51965543]It's doomed. They're taking the gameplay and story in horrid directions.[/QUOTE]
What you don't like killing Cortana off just to have her come back as a villain? Or killing off a the Didact just to have him come back in a comic to die again?
See, aside from the little flying guys and the tiny tanks, I think Halo's level of technology would get to the point where it'd seem simple. Whilst the futuristic call of duty games go into fetish mode with gadgets, I think in Halo, 5 centuries in the future, it'd be really simple to the user (much like how they only need one guy to drive a tank)
Point at an area; Something, somewhere, blows it up.
You see the enemy with your VISR, his outline glows/he gets a red thing above his head, everyone else with a VISR now sees the outline/icon over his head.
Maybe there's a deployable that gives an extra point of view.
I don't think that'd take much away from halo's identity.
Work continues on the 3K_Smash map. It's almost done, just need to move the spinner up and it should be ready.
[t]https://screenshotscontent-t3002.xboxlive.com/0009000004bf03a4-d7d08bc7-43e7-4d89-9413-49e014e7cc0b/Screenshot-Original.png?sv=2014-02-14&sr=b&si=DefaultAccess&sig=bDZ0UneFcyJ07cwVQ7fwL86tY2T%2FWanqIUbqPRaQwOw%3D[/t]
Instead of just having an open box to the sky, I put some rocks and terrain down to look like the whole arena was in some forgotten valley, complete with waterfalls and vines.
Seems a bit too much of a fantasy to have a fire-themed army.
Seeing the flame cyclopse made me think of warhammer a thousand times before I remembered it was for halo.
It looks really cool, and that they're going for 'the spectacle' but moving away from sci-fi and more towards fantasy is one of the things I lampoon 343 for. Hellbringers are alright in small doses, but having too many is a strategic error.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;51967603]What you don't like killing Cortana off just to have her come back as a villain? Or killing off a the Didact just to have him come back in a comic to die again?[/QUOTE]
The only credit i will give you, is that what 343i did to Cortana was an absolute punch to the balls. It was so unnecessary and just wrong. To turn around after Halo 4's story, which i personally loved, and give us the absolute trash heap that was Halo 5's story gave me whiplash. Especially considering that Cortana was a fantastic, well written and well loved character until they bastardized her into a villain for no reason.
That is the ONLY THING you an I will agree on about 343.
[QUOTE=The Jack;51970249]Seems a bit too much of a fantasy to have a fire-themed army.
Seeing the flame cyclopse made me think of warhammer a thousand times before I remembered it was for halo.
It looks really cool, and that they're going for 'the spectacle' but moving away from sci-fi and more towards fantasy is one of the things I lampoon 343 for. Hellbringers are alright in small doses, but having too many is a strategic error.[/QUOTE]
I don't know, it reminds me a bit of the Aliens Work loader. The marines in Halo where based on the marines from Aliens, so it makes sense to me.
And also, I'm not entirely conviced about the spectacle, but I also can't see how this is more fantasy to you compared to alien zombies controlled by an evil worm.
I think a lot of sci-fi marines are going to take cues from aliens, by virtue of aliens getting there early and covering a fair bit of ground, not because those sci-fi games want to exactly reference aliens.
[QUOTE=ossumsauce;51970558]The only credit i will give you, is that what 343i did to Cortana was an absolute punch to the balls. It was so unnecessary and just wrong. To turn around after Halo 4's story, which i personally loved, and give us the absolute trash heap that was Halo 5's story gave me whiplash. Especially considering that Cortana was a fantastic, well written and well loved character until they bastardized her into a villain for no reason.
That is the ONLY THING you an I will agree on about 343.[/QUOTE]
I hated even halo 4's cortana.
The emphasis on a personal story was at the expense of everything else. The main villain was a cartoonishly evil mage, the second big bad was a poorly characterized religious terrorist, misc cast were all a bunch of one dimensional tropes, and it's all in general heaps of shit.
-The sexualisation went up to 11. I'm aware that people criticized bungie for the naked hologram chick (I never noticed), but they at least gave her human proportions. 4's cortana is nice to look at, but it's uncomfortable how they took such a cheap shot to make her a marketable love interest. Let's not forget that cortana's a clone of someone Chief'd call "Mom".
-The ending went even beyond forerunner-super science and was just magic. Like hardlight is a technology based on real world theory, and bungie didn't go mad with it. But here you are in space, everything's destroyed, and there's no emiters,power source, or anything to create and sustain the box you're in and the physical avatar.
I guess it never really helped that I never had any special feelings for cortana, she was just helpful in 1 and 2 and in the way for 3.
I think exploring Cortana going rampant is a good shot. I respect the Idea and trying something new. I don't agree at all with their methods or goals.
[QUOTE=The Jack;51970747]I think a lot of sci-fi marines are going to take cues from aliens, by virtue of aliens getting there early and covering a fair bit of ground, not because those sci-fi games want to exactly reference aliens.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but I specifically mentioned Aliens because Bungie drew inspiration from them initially. This fits that aesthetic; 343 might not have exactly delivered with HW2 story (I've heard) but they almost have all the aesthetic back.
They even use the same flamethrower jaw paintjob that's on the H1 and H3 flamethrower.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/CQwQJ5I.png[/t]
[t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/8f/M7057_Defoliant_Projector.png/revision/latest?cb=20110917224711[/t] [t]http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/c/cf/HaloCE-M7057DefoliantProjector-transparent.png[/t]
Also, you didn't answer my query: how is this more fantasy to you than an evil space worm controlling space zombies?
The flood are an advanced biological organism that converts and mutates organic matter, and seeks to propagate itself.
They build central intellegences that command others (through some means not specified, but there are scientific explanations for it, real life species can communicate in the strangest of ways) and one of them happens to represent worms.
Of course, I'm just using big words and you're just simplifying, but halo 1-3 does stress their scientific nature through the words they use. Parasite, containment procedures, that tone guilty spark takes when he talks about them. They're science monsters (with added biblical terms)
In comparison to the magic bullshit that often doesn't make sense (Why do all these switches disintegrate when I press them? [I]This is worse than those doors that have pull handles when you're meant to push[/I]) and cortana materializing from the bridge in a slow and cinimatic fashion, outside of where the bridge emitters are pointing, I think the flood are pretty grounded.
Fantasy Shmantasy. Flooding the field with mechanized fire is just badass. Give it to me. pls
so I got an xbox one s and I've literally been playind only destiny. for some reason im really hooked on that game and am really enjoying it. funnily enough, i feel like destiny multiplayer feels a lot more halo than halo 5 guardians, but then again I've only played reach.
I never realized how much I wanted flame warthogs till now.
[QUOTE=FlandersNed;51971231]Yes, but I specifically mentioned Aliens because Bungie drew inspiration from them initially. This fits that aesthetic; 343 might not have exactly delivered with HW2 story (I've heard) but they almost have all the aesthetic back.
They even use the same flamethrower jaw paintjob that's on the H1 and H3 flamethrower.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/CQwQJ5I.png[/t]
[t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/8/8f/M7057_Defoliant_Projector.png/revision/latest?cb=20110917224711[/t] [t]http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/c/cf/HaloCE-M7057DefoliantProjector-transparent.png[/t]
Also, you didn't answer my query: how is this more fantasy to you than an evil space worm controlling space zombies?[/QUOTE]
Her whole character outfit still looks dumb as fuck
When you say her "character outfit" do you mean her actual outfit?
[t]https://static2.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1179/11799911/3199774-kinsano.jpg[/t]
Or the model of her mech?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/kse5QLR.png[/t]
Or maybe the concept art?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/TNrf4W3.png[/t]
While I don't think the concept art does much justice (makes it look really short and fat while being stretched out) the other two are fine. Her actual human outfit looks cool and the in-game model of her mech looks like your standard mech with flamethrowers. Don't really see what looks dumb as fuck. Unless you mean that it's not the [I]Bungie Aesthetic™[/I] or something and you just dislike it off of that
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The Halo Thread V13: Great, this guy's OP again?
