Star Citizen Megathread v. procedurally-generated deadlines - Games

the groundhezzy saw its shadow, good news in two weeks [t]http://i.imgur.com/007efJr.png[/t] remuneration! also overstated by 4k but thats not much to round up. Also fun nobody brought this up in the past two weeks its been available until they released some content worthy of positive press lmao [t]http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/kaplan/AlexILS/ACCAWIKI/ACCA_P1_HTML/Images/P1_Ch4_Remun_S3.gif[/t] the concept of remuneration is far more than a person's salary, and includes the current value of owned stock options (which aren't paid out annually, you know how stock works) alongside subsidiary things like pension (interestingly low this year compared to last, hm), healthcare plans, and non-monetary/not-personally-gained assets attributed to the person by the company, IE a company car, reimbursement for business travel/events, etc still fancy, but being the director of a company office, his salary probably was 150k at best, which for a company the size of F42 is pretty run of the mill at least this is a decent concern on a cursory glance compared to things like a plywood door on motorized rails

[QUOTE=dai;52394410]the groundhezzy saw its shadow, good news in two weeks [t]http://i.imgur.com/007efJr.png[/t] remuneration! also overstated by 4k but thats not much to round up. Also fun nobody brought this up in the past two weeks its been available until they released some content worthy of positive press lmao [t]http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/kaplan/AlexILS/ACCAWIKI/ACCA_P1_HTML/Images/P1_Ch4_Remun_S3.gif[/t] the concept of remuneration is far more than a person's salary, and includes the current value of owned stock options (which aren't paid out annually, you know how stock works) alongside subsidiary things like pension (interestingly low this year compared to last, hm), healthcare plans, and non-monetary/not-personally-gained assets attributed to the person by the company, IE a company car, reimbursement for business travel/events, etc still fancy, but being the director of a company office, his salary probably was 150k at best, which for a company the size of F42 is pretty run of the mill at least this is a decent concern on a cursory glance compared to things like a plywood door on motorized rails[/QUOTE] That door was a professional supermarket style one, professionally created and fitted, which was a blatantly dumb expense

[url=https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report]Schedule updated[/url] [quote=CIG]We have reached ‘feature complete’ on several essential 3.0 systems, including the Mission Manager app, AI turrets and the diffusion subset (which came in earlier than expected). Several other items have been pushed out, largely due to dependencies that occur when so many features come together. As a result of the changes to these items, which are necessary to begin wider testing, we have moved the start of the Evocati window to July 7 (please note that much like a space launch, the testing windows indicate the timeframe in which we expect testing to begin and not the start and stop dates of the testing itself)[/quote] Evocati is 6th of July to the 20th of July, PTU is the 24th of July to the 3rd of August, with 3.0 Aim Dates between the 4th and the 8th of August.

I'll be damned, turns out being the founder and director of a large, successful company pays well

[QUOTE=krail9;52395712]I'll be damned, turns out being the founder and director of a large, successful company pays well[/QUOTE] A company that is also yet to deliver any of it's final products. I wonder if everyone is going to get a big raise when S42 hits the shelves or if they'll just buy more doors.

[QUOTE=krail9;52395712]I'll be damned, turns out being the founder and director of a large, successful company pays well[/QUOTE] How exactly do you define success?

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52396435]How exactly do you define success?[/QUOTE] [img]http://puu.sh/wsZ35.png[/img] [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Lord Hayden;52396417]A company that is also yet to deliver any of it's final products. I wonder if everyone is going to get a big raise when S42 hits the shelves or if they'll just buy more doors.[/QUOTE] 3.0 would be out by now if it wasn't for that pesky door

So it's because of sliding doors that grocery stores have to impose such huge markups on prices? Man, I learned something today.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52396535]So it's because of sliding doors that grocery stores have to impose such huge markups on prices? Man, I learned something today.[/QUOTE] People always find something to bitch about, water is blue and the sky is wet etc In other news, I do hope I get to see this game before I'm too old to play vidja games. That is a real concern.

Highlights from the schedule update, [URL="https://www.diffchecker.com/rdBkVRNe"]with a diff against last week's to more easily see what changed.[/URL] [QUOTE]We have reached ‘feature complete’ on several essential 3.0 systems, including the Mission Manager app, AI turrets and the diffusion subset (which came in earlier than expected).[/QUOTE] [QUOTE](Ship Item 2.0 conversion) Single seat ships reached feature complete today (23rd June), but Multi-Crew ships will take us into next Friday. ETA is 30th June (was 23rd June)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE](Insurance) Integration with the shopping service has taken longer than expected on the game code side. ETA is 26th June (was 23rd June)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE](Doors and airlocks) During the implementation of the new doors and airlocks, we found new bugs that have held up the completion to full conversion. Many locations now have newly updated doors, but the airlocks require a little more time to finish properly. ETA is 30th June (was 22nd June)[/QUOTE] Total number of items delayed from last week: 18 (17.5 if Ship Item 2.0 overhaul is given partial credit for single-seater ships being feature complete) Number of items delayed because of other features being required: 3 Number of items delayed because of coding problems or bugs or needing more time: 8.5 Number of items delayed because of devs being pulled onto other features: 6 Number of items moved to feature complete since last week: 9 They're showing steady progress to 3.0

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52395217]That door was a professional supermarket style one, professionally created and fitted, which was a blatantly dumb expense[/QUOTE] Yeah I remember that info graphic where the guy asked a contractor for a $17,000+ quote to build a glass storefront instead of asking what a goddamn sliding rail cost without having to draft, approve, and apply labor to creating and assembling the extruded aluminum, cut to size impact glass, structural work, and installation Given they also pegged a dirt cheap RF tag reader at several hundred dollars I'm not sure it was the best researcher for the job

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52395217]That door was a professional supermarket style one, professionally created and fitted, which was a blatantly dumb expense[/QUOTE] You complained about it at the time it was first shown and on that same page Elix said it was revealed to be a garage door opener with a painted wooden door, not a "professional supermarket style one". [quote]The door is a painted wooden door hooked up to a garage door opener and is fairly inexpensive, confirmed on RtV just now.[/quote] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1496153&page=65[/url]

And even if the door cost as much as the ludicrously overestimated figure a goon came up with...ok? I guess we should boycott Valve because of their swanky front office. Blizzard, too. Also I hope nobody has any Android phones since Google loves to put Android statues on their campus for each release, or at least they used to. Employees work better when they're happy in their environment, and that means budgeting a tiny fraction of the overall project bank account to improving office conditions with tangible little perks, like fancy doors, themed glass, and all-you-can-drink coffee from a big professional-grade machine instead of four Black and Decker 2L drip coffee makers and a bag of disposable coffee filters. Where's the smoking gun that shows backer money's being spent on cocaine or Bugatti Veyrons?

[QUOTE=nightlord;52397641]You complained about it at the time it was first shown and on that same page Elix said it was revealed to be a garage door opener with a painted wooden door, not a "professional supermarket style one". [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1496153&page=65[/url][/QUOTE] Like CIG would tell the truth about their ridiculously expensive office furnishings. [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52397741]And even if the door cost as much as the ludicrously overestimated figure a goon came up with...ok? I guess we should boycott Valve because of their swanky front office. Blizzard, too. Also I hope nobody has any Android phones since Google loves to put Android statues on their campus for each release, or at least they used to. Employees work better when they're happy in their environment, and that means budgeting a tiny fraction of the overall project bank account to improving office conditions with tangible little perks, like fancy doors, themed glass, and all-you-can-drink coffee from a big professional-grade machine instead of four Black and Decker 2L drip coffee makers and a bag of disposable coffee filters. Where's the smoking gun that shows backer money's being spent on cocaine or Bugatti Veyrons?[/QUOTE] You mention Valve and Blizzard except they're actually successful studios that have released products. They're not the result of a bunch of internet people throwing money at internet spaceships which have yet to actually appear however many years down the line we are now. What's wrong with focusing on spending towards actually producing the game they've promised to make? The fact that this thread has jumped about 250% in activity goes to show there's no actual bloody game to discuss. There never will be. Get a refund.

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52397800] Get a refund.[/QUOTE] Nah. I'll just wait it out.

why is the community manager constantly shitting up our thread with repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories there are valid criticisms of SC's development cycle but somehow hezzy never brings any of them up, preferring instead to parrot derek smart and harp on about apparently the world's most expensive door

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52397800]Like CIG would tell the truth about their ridiculously expensive office furnishings. [/QUOTE] You seriously believe that they'd lie about something that would be a perfectly acceptable expense for any serious developer or business that wants to be seen as respectable and get noticed? Do you have [I]any[/I] evidence to back up your claim that it isn't true? Utterly absurd if you actually think that a developer with multiple studios around the world that employs hundreds of people shouldn't be allowed to present themselves seriously or do anything to help build them up as a company because they haven't "released products" yet despite releasing a playable portion of their game and giving constant updates on progress.

This is a pretty cool website [url]https://starcitizentracker.github.io/[/url]

Please stop trolling this thread, Hezzy. Instead of responding to arguments, you're linking shit run by goons who are determined to paint Star Citizen in as uncharitable a light as possible. What an amazing community manager.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52397962]why is the community manager constantly shitting up our thread with repeatedly debunked conspiracy theories there are valid criticisms of SC's development cycle but somehow hezzy never brings any of them up, preferring instead to parrot derek smart and harp on about apparently the world's most expensive door[/QUOTE] I think there's some kind of phenomenon where over time the criticisms we see voiced become more and more weak or off-message, because of the simple fact that all the 'real concerns' have already been hashed out and people have made up their minds one way or the other? I mean the vast majority of people who don't like the game or w/e looked at it years ago and went "pff, yeah right, that wont work" and have just moved on, so you just don't see those people in places like this thread - there's nothing to discuss, even if those criticisms are still valid the only sort of 'open' opposition you see, like with hezzy, I imagine is from people who are actively annoyed that the game is still raising money despite obviously being a flop, so things like the door or the directors salary are kind of flimsy in terms of the logic, but it's sort of all you have if you want to bring something new to the discussion as a detractor - the main concerns and criticisms SC faces, about scope creep, funding model, god-emperor roberts etc, are all kind of subjective and hard to pin down, and we wont have any real proof either way until either the game is released or the company folds I really get where they're coming from, and the underlying genuine criticisms are still there, but it's never sort of adequately explained or reasoned, it's just this sort of vague ":thinking: makes you think, huh??? :thinking:" which really isn't conductive to debate [editline]25th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52398237]Please stop trolling this thread, Hezzy. Instead of responding to arguments, you're linking shit run by goons who are determined to paint Star Citizen in as uncharitable a light as possible. What an amazing community manager.[/QUOTE] I also think we could do without dismissing things 'because goons/derek did it', that's actually a pretty good site I think any project should strive to look good even in the most uncharitable light possible yeah?

I'm of the wait and see mentality. I personally have gotten the chump change I put into the project out of the PTU in terms of fun so whether the game flops or not is a matter of a broken heart, not a busted wallet. If the game takes another 10 years to come out, well, cool, I'll get to play a great game in 10 years at no cost to my future self. If it never does, oh well. CIG is obviously a talented team. Moan all you want about the time it's taken them, the technology they're showing is very impressive unless you want to take the DS angle of "none of it actually exists and everyone who claims otherwise is a paid shill". Lately it seems like they've been putting more content out than ever and getting much closer to their deadlines. Complaining about prop doors which are obviously just fun things to lighten the mood in the office is just ridiculous and it makes you look really weak, [url=https://i.gyazo.com/59eac7e4e5ee4e79f8b7d5e9460b4f71.png]especially if you don't seem to mind broken promises and missed deadlines in other games.[/url]

since when does facepunch need to be a hug box the mods have always shat on users and hezzy this thread has and always will be the chris roberts defence force has anyone claimed you're actually derek smart yet??? [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] basically hezzy posting here is a waste of time and to everyone else "wow such a great community manager" is a horrible argument you're all idiots

[QUOTE=krail9;52398241]I also think we could do without dismissing things 'because goons/derek did it', that's actually a pretty good site I think any project should strive to look good even in the most uncharitable light possible yeah?[/QUOTE] SH doesn't allow the Daily Mail or Breitbart as sources, I'm disinclined to give any stock to the SC-drama equivalent, sorry. [QUOTE]Server: Player hosted private servers[/QUOTE] This is flagged as 'broken'. It's not a broken promise at all. Their own citations have Disco Lando saying that private servers and mod tools are [I]the last thing[/I] on the list to do, because you can't do those until you finish the baseline game. If anything, this should be "not implemented". [QUOTE]Promo: Behind the Scenes of Star Citizen (Professional feature length documentary)[/QUOTE] Also flagged as broken. They're shooting footage for the damn thing on an ongoing basis, and they can't release a behind-the-scenes documentary until it's done. Why is this flagged as broken? [QUOTE]Engine: Angle penetration damage[/QUOTE] Marked broken with no justification. The only reference is a 10FTC from 2013 where Chris says it'll be in. [QUOTE]Mechanics: Chat shared between Hangar and transfer to Arena Commander[/QUOTE] Marked as broken, already implemented in the game. Yeah, no, it's trash.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52398255]I'm of the wait and see mentality. I personally have gotten the chump change I put into the project out of the PTU in terms of fun so whether the game flops or not is a matter of a broken heart, not a busted wallet. If the game takes another 10 years to come out, well, cool, I'll get to play a great game in 10 years at no cost to my future self. If it never does, oh well. CIG is obviously a talented team. Moan all you want about the time it's taken them, the technology they're showing is very impressive unless you want to take the DS angle of "none of it actually exists and everyone who claims otherwise is a paid shill". Lately it seems like they've been putting more content out than ever and getting much closer to their deadlines. Complaining about prop doors which are obviously just fun things to lighten the mood in the office is just ridiculous and it makes you look really weak, [url=https://i.gyazo.com/59eac7e4e5ee4e79f8b7d5e9460b4f71.png]especially if you don't seem to mind broken promises and missed deadlines in other games.[/url][/QUOTE] oh no you're digging in my steam profile for material to use against me :dogchill:

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52398345]oh no you're digging in my steam profile for material to use against me :dogchill:[/QUOTE] I glanced at your games page to see if I could formulate that exact argument. I didn't really "dig", it was two clicks.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52398375]I glanced at your games page to see if I could formulate that exact argument. I didn't really "dig", it was two clicks.[/QUOTE] Please by all means explain how deadlines slipped year over year and how promises were broken in these feature complete products that were actually released and are playable as games.

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52398345] :dogchill:[/QUOTE] It's funny that you're using that. Since you're the one coming in here getting butt hurt over a video game.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Khorn;52398403]It's funny that you're using that. Since you're the one coming in here getting butt hurt over a video game.[/QUOTE] I think you'll find I'm getting butthurt about a door, young man. It's a world of difference Nah I am just frustrated that this game is showing obvious signs of struggling yet people bury their heads in the sand about it. Also uhhh [url]https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history[/url] CIG UK has enlisted the services of COUTTS & CO, a wealth management company. Have a look at the "Registration of charge" It appears that CIG UK have taken out a loan of unspecified value and have pledged [I]everything[/I] as collateral, literally even the kitchen sinks at F42.

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52398380]Please by all means explain how deadlines slipped year over year and how promises were broken in these feature complete products that were actually released and are playable as games.[/QUOTE] Where's the promised singleplayer DLC for GTA 5? As for Elite's broken promises, here is a thread posted last year. Almost all of the points on the list still apply, and for what few items on this list that have been added since, they're locked behind paywalls. [url]https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/223142-Broken-Promises-A-Collection[/url] This thread doesn't even go into everything. A quick glance at the original kickstarter page for Elite shows even more missing stuff. You cannot call Elite feature-complete. It was nowhere near feature-complete on launch. If I was aggressive enough to call any recent high-budget game a scam, it'd have to be Elite. But it's still fun. I don't mind that I paid for it. It's alright. You don't see me on the Frontier forums or in the Elite thread (hell, [I]I posted the Elite thread[/I]) brigading about how ED is a scam and SC is going to be better. Game development takes a long time. ED and SC are both pioneering space games on a scale that hasn't really been tried before. The tech didn't exist before these companies developed it. There are no standards about large scale space games, we don't know how long it takes to truly "complete" a game like this because one has never been completed before. Still, I am optimistic about both games being fun in the future. Elite is still being developed full-time. Massive features are still being added to the game. In fact, the only real difference between the two games' development cycles is that FD calls Elite "released, with DLC" and CIG is honest enough to call SC the alpha that it is. They could release 3.0 as a "finished" game and sell the rest of it as DLC and the game would still have more depth in many places than ED at the current time. You can still get into SC with $30. For Elite's early adopters, to be up to date with the game's current DLC scheme, they're mostly in for $120. That means I'm in for the same amount with both games since I own a Cutlass in SC. e: Actually with all the skins and shit I've bought in ED I'm probably in for more in ED :v:

[QUOTE=Hezzy;52398380]Please by all means explain how deadlines slipped year over year and how promises were broken in these feature complete products that were actually released and are playable as games.[/QUOTE] Oh boy. Elite: Dangerous is where you wanna plant your flag? Lesse, offline mode was promised in the Kickstarter, Frontier announced it was cut shortly before the game was to launch, long after they'd made the decision. The Horizons expansion was supposed to wrap up by the end of 2016, but the due date for 2.4 is now Q3 2017, so assuming they make that date by the end of September they're 6-9 months overdue on an expansion that was supposed to take 12 months. Orrey view? MIA entirely. [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_Developments"]Frontier has been working on Elite 4 since 1998[/URL] and [URL="https://www.develop-online.net/news/elite-4-technology-almost-finished-says-braben/0103227"]in 2008 they were "close to finishing the technology" and that it would be soon.[/URL] In 2012 they made a Kickstarter and kicked out the barest skeleton of gameplay, polished to a keen shine, two years later: An always-online game that didn't even allow you to wing up with your friends until a post-launch update. About the loan, I can read /r/starcitizen and Derek's twitter feed too. Here's a counterpoint, since not everyone understands business finance. [QUOTE=Reddit]Just like people with money in the bank will still buy things on their credit card, businesses will borrow money to address large expenditures without tying up operating cash, or even sometimes to cover operating expenses while maximizing liquidity, if the interest rates are favorable enough. The [URL="http://archive.is/VHyJK"]current BoE rate is 0.25%.[/URL] The [URL="http://archive.is/SJOYo"]UK bank prime lending rate is at a correspondingly low 1.25%.[/URL] Interest rates don't get much lower than that. By contrast, the [URL="http://archive.is/FI81T"]US FED rate is at 1.25%[/URL], resulting in [URL="http://archive.is/YkNXE"]higher bank lending and interest rates[/URL] domestically. So assuming F42 can borrow at or near the prime rate, right now CIG could leave their money in a US bank while borrowing to cover UK operating costs and make money off the difference in interest rates.[/QUOTE]