Star Citizen Megathread v. procedurally-generated deadlines - Games

Reading the SCU and Cargo blog; [QUOTE]Additionally, as we develop our physics for internal behavior we are looking at room temperature, atmospherics and other forces to act upon the player and when cargo isn’t secure, these systems will act upon that, as well. Future updates will see inertial forces act upon a ship so that every bump or a bang from combat, re-entry, quantum jumps etc. will knock around anything unsecureed in the cargo hold, potentially causing it to suffer damage. While the extent of damage remains to be seen, expect some loss of integrity of the goods you’re shipping if not being stored appropriately. Also: keep an eye on any loose cargo if someone opens an airlock, too. With nothing keeping it in place, your goods will find themselves at the mercy of any decompression suffered.[/QUOTE] Not to come across as a naysayer but this seems [I]spectacularly [/I]optimistic given the current state of their physics and netcode

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52822061]Reading the SCU and Cargo blog; Not to come across as a naysayer but this seems [I]spectacularly [/I]optimistic given the current state of their physics and netcode[/QUOTE] Might just have it measure accelerations and jerk on the entire ship for that kind of thing; IIRC, Euro Truck Simulator has a similar mechanic for fragile good hauling.

In a 10ftC-ish Q&A, might've been an actual 10ftC while they were still running, around the time 2.0 was on the long road to release, Chris Roberts said that the goal was to have sharp changes in ship acceleration (e.g. weapon/obstacle impacts) be felt through the ship by physics pushes. The example CR gave was having to lean against a wall, with custom animations for bracing yourself, as the ship gets hit by a missile or something. It was definitely positioned as an "eventually" thing but there isn't really any reason they couldn't do it using physics pushes on the interior physics grid once they've got cargo and ship cargo bays all worked out and the client performance isn't sucking huge dick. Anything physically secured to the cargo grid can be excluded (unless there's an untethered Dragonfly or something smashing against the cargo boxes) from prop damage code, so you're only in performance trouble if you misunderstood code words in Facepunch battle plans and [I]actually[/I] filled your Starfarer's cargo hold with loose turnips and every single thruster event on the ship causes 3 minutes of lag. [editline]a[/editline] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16199-Consolidated-Outland-Pioneer-Presale"]Pioneer warbond presale is up for Concierge.[/URL] [del]and [I]maybe?[/I] subscribers[/del] (nope) $750 warbond price with LTI of course, limited quantities! ~1500 as I post. No word on what the limit will be in the general sale. [t]https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/lri0jlr278tekr/source/Flying-Shot-Top-Dunes.jpg[/t] [QUOTE][B]GET READY FOR THE NEXT PHASE IN THE EVOLUTION OF ASTROENGINEERING.[/B] “Humanity still has a long way to go, and I think Consolidated Outland is going to be the one to take them there.” – Silas Koerner Silas Koerner and Consolidated Outland invite you to the future of colonization. The brand new Pioneer is a mobile construction yard that specializes in creating modular planetary structures. Utilizing an on-board reserve of resources, the Pioneer can construct your new home onsite as well as continue to build once your new settlement is up and running. Whether you’re simply looking to build a little respite far away from the noise and chaos of day-to-day life or you’re bringing civilization to the frontier, the Pioneer will make your dream a reality.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Be the first to get your hands on Consolidated Outland’s exciting new Pioneer mobile construction ship. Whether you’re looking to build a home away from home or strike out to claim an untouched world, the Pioneer will not only get you there, it’ll make your dreams a reality.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Contains: Consolidate Outland Pioneer VFG Industrial Hangar [B]UEE Claim License Outpost Construction Material[/B] Lifetime Insurance Consolidate Outland Pioneer Poster Consolidate Outland Pioneer Model[/QUOTE] Okay, that's a game-changer. The madmen are actually going to do it. That's going on my "in-game" list.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52824124] [t]https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/lri0jlr278tekr/source/Flying-Shot-Top-Dunes.jpg[/t] [/QUOTE] That art looks [I]pretty[/I] Homeworld and I like that.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/DUj4vlT.png[/IMG] This art of the Consolidated Outlands shipyards was sent out in email to I guess Concierge. [t]https://i.imgur.com/HV4AsXh.png[/t] Building outposts and laying claim to limited amounts of surrounding land actually makes a lot of sense. Think about how a MISC Prospector can mine on planetary surfaces. There'll need to be some method of controlling land claims, and here we are. Assuming the Pioneer is essentially a "build your own 3.0 outpost" ship, this gives mining and exploration orgs a leg up. And makes plenty of new targets for criminals, which in turn creates lots of opportunity for bounty hunting and defensive escorts. It's perfect that it's Consolidated Outland doing this, too. I was wondering if they'd be coming out with any new ships before the Mustangs were unfucked.

God this game will be amazing. Imagine how awesome it'll be: - Chain of Command in a Corporation / Organization spots a nice bit of land they want to lay claim to - Don't want to alert the entire Corp of their decision, so as not to have loose lips give away the fact there'll be lots of high value ships / items moving in a convoy - Keep everything under wraps whilst slowly positioning all the separate moving parts, ready to move out - Let the Corp members know, tell them to suit and buckle up - Head out in a massive convoy to claim this new piece of land, all the while hoping your secrecy was enough to not have tonnes of pirates try and mess you up

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52824124]Okay, that's a game-changer. The madmen are actually going to do it. That's going on my "in-game" list.[/QUOTE] how is this a game changer? it was always said we will be able to build outposts, all they did was put the functionality behind a $750 paywall what could the gameplay of base building possibly be that you need an entire ship for it? the sims minigame?

I don't personally remember outposts "always" being a [I]confirmed[/I] feature, but I paid no attention to SC before late 2014. I understood base-building, land settlements, and that whole shebang was something they hoped to do one day. Then again, this was said in a 10ftC about a year before F42 Frankfurt made the breakthrough necessary for procgen planets. I can see how that would have accelerated the schedule on player settlements far enough ahead that concept time would be around now. However, how would you expect outposts to be built if not by a ship in this game? Also, it's only "behind a paywall" if you want to spend the price to buy one immediately. As with everything it'll be available in the game. In a game revolving primarily around ships I'm not sure why it was expected that you'd be able to construct them any other way. Sure, it could be a self-assembling IKEA flatpack kind of thing that comes in a box, but not in THIS game.

[video=youtube;rr3_9piOoxQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr3_9piOoxQ[/video] Burndown: 20 bugs -> [B]16[/B] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ship-matrix"]The ship matrix has finally been updated with the big revision.[/URL] Here are the posts discussing the matrix revision: [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16163-The-Shipyard-Careers-And-Roles"]Careers and Roles[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16170-The-Shipyard-Ship-Mass"]Ship Mass[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16172-The-Shipyard-Ship-Technical-Information"]Technical Information[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16179-The-Shipyard-Ship-Thrusters-And-You"]Thrusters[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16181-The-Shipyard-Weapon-Hardpoints"]Weapon hardpoints[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16190-The-Shipyard-Ordnance-Hardpoints"]Ordnance hardpoints[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16185-The-Shipyard-Turrets"]Turrets[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16193-The-Shipyard-Other-Ship-Items"]Misc hardpoints[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16204-The-Shipyard-SCU-And-Cargo-Capacity"]SCU/Cargo[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/16205-The-Shipyard-Variants-And-Modules"]Variants & Modules[/URL] [video=youtube;IvmqLqlICL0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvmqLqlICL0[/video] Reminder, [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/citcon-featured-content/16174-CitizenCon-2947-Details"]here's the Citizencon schedule for tomorrow.[/URL] All times are Frankfurt (UTC+2) time. That means the show starts early in the morning for North America.

[t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/131482024450981888/373446841926156288/IMG_20171027_142205.jpg[/t]

Remember to get an interview and shill for the org, guys. :v:

[URL="https://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen"]Stream's live and the show is an hour behind schedule as always with CIG's presentations.[/URL] The [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/ships/sabre/Sabre-Raven"]Sabre Raven[/URL] was revealed; it's part of the Intel Optane sponsorship deal, buy a $400-and-up ultra-high-performance SSD and get a SC ship while supplies last. No pledge option.

Any word on 3 from the stream?

we've got people watching the stream and out on the con floor, actively talking as stuff happens in the discord if you want to keep an eye on what's going on. Xi'an design stuff just going through now, I can't believe the turtle people got us with a yo mama joke [t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/131482024450981888/373516720041885696/xian.JPG[/t]

Keynote just ended. Disappointed at the lack of "real" gameplay but the environmental stuff is still impressive and it was by far the best stream from CIG to date.

Area 18 is theoretically 'finished' according to the schedule report (the 2017 roadmap at the bottom, not the "road to 3.0" detailed section) and Hurston should've been recently wrapped up, so showing them off is kind of a no-brainer and a lot easier to demo than unfinished gameplay tech. What is notable, however, is that what was less expected was the procedural city tech. CIG mentioned they were working on it earlier this year, and we naturally assumed "two years". It's likely to be another six months at least before 3.1/3.whatever patch lets us fly over ArcCorp goes to public PTU, so they'll likely be using that time to refine the tools and all, but those tool demos were way more sophisticated and impressive than I expected. If anyone's interested in the extended Xi'An language materials, here they are: [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/16202-Xian-Dictionary"]Dictionary,[/URL] [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/16214-A-Quick-Guide-To-SRX"]guide to Standard Romanized Xi'An (SRX), [/URL] and the first of a video series: [video=youtube;OSOETxLuUHo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSOETxLuUHo[/video]

That city tech was genuinely mind blowing. The work they've done on the tech is next level impressive.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52828438] What is notable, however, is that what was less expected was the procedural city tech. CIG mentioned they were working on it earlier this year, and we naturally assumed "two years". It's likely to be another six months at least before 3.1/3.whatever patch lets us fly over ArcCorp goes to public PTU, so they'll likely be using that time to refine the tools and all, but those tool demos were way more sophisticated and impressive than I expected.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=KaptonJack;52828653]That city tech was genuinely mind blowing. The work they've done on the tech is next level impressive.[/QUOTE] This (combined with the fact that my investment is pretty low at the moment :v:) is why I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on missed headlines. Because it seems like they have to redesign the wheel when it comes to every aspect of the game, making tools to fit the development as they go along.

I bet, one year they'l have a big ass citizencon presentation starting in frankfurt in game.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52828729]This (combined with the fact that my investment is pretty low at the moment :v:) is why I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on missed headlines. Because it seems like they have to redesign the wheel when it comes to every aspect of the game, making tools to fit the development as they go along.[/QUOTE] i have no doubt that the game will release in a great state eventually, and with tons of neat features... but the downside of so much scope creep is the release date getting pushed back and back and back I wonder how other games even vaguely near this scale compare, once you factor in the full development time. There's not really been any AAA scale games like this done in an open development style, and it's been really neat to get insight (as someone who kinda wants to work in the industry) on what gamedev stuff is like (from build servers to physics work to animations etc). procedural stuff is something they've done really nicely with, I said ages ago that they're doing the procedural stuff on planets right: instead of making a whole procgen planet the procgen stuff is primarily tools for artists and designers to accelerate their progress. Is the city tech the same? that should let them fill out cities and settlements loads more, and make mixed procgen/hand-designed content a lot less obvious.

[img]https://i.gyazo.com/20d8ff773eee60ecf588d4830a538a57.png[/img] shit game 0/10

[t]https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/92e8hcun0qdwqr/source/Must-FIx-Issues_102717.png[/t] 16 on AtV -> [B]17[/B] Also, to correct myself from my post last page, Hurston is still scheduled for work until late November, which is probably why we didn't actually enter the landing zone itself and instead touched down 75km away and drove a Nox over to the outskirts. However, Crusader should've started work a month ago, and on the schedule it's due to be finished roughly around the time Hurston is. Probably because it's literally just a landing zone and then a bunch of floating shipyard scenery props instead of an entire planet with fleshed-out surface biomes and locations...because duh. :v: [URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/16207-CitizenCon-2947-Flair"]If anyone's interested in purchasing the custom-skinned SMG or the Citizencon event trophy, they're here.[/URL] Attendees will automatically get these items as well as the two other SMG skins shown on-stage (after CR decided that, rather than hold a shouty vote, they'll just do both). [video=youtube;_-OoMySD66E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-OoMySD66E[/video] [video=youtube;pXR55lxmEVg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXR55lxmEVg[/video] Featuring Tony Z [U]with a haircut[/U].

[QUOTE=paindoc;52828824]I wonder how other games even vaguely near this scale compare[/QUOTE] I tend to refer back to Guild Wars 2. Pretty run of the mill MMO for the time that wasn't swimming in blizzard money, though they had a competitive existing franchise with funds and a massive devteam from day 1 so that's still a huge leap on things-to-do compared to SC starting with a basic proof-of-concept animation and just a handful of people, which didn't really change til like a year or two later once they started putting safe funds toward talent and expansion. At any rate, GW2 started development (and was announced) in 2007, but didn't put out a trailer til [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjCehYrEbO0]August 2009[/url], and even then it was all concept art with a few location shots (most later scrapped) and early character models running forward here and there. They started with (and stuck to) a modified version of the original guild wars's engine (it still is but they're working it hard) exactly a year after that in 2010, we got [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E]this[/url] with more concept art, a basic "we're making a great game" speech, and a bunch of rough game content and setpiece showing. That was the equivalent of SC's kickstarter pitch video content, and thaaaat was about it. People ate it up and were hyped for ages on that little nugget. people started getting closed beta access, which had some player feedback orientation going on at the end of 2011, and the public stuff being nearing-launch stress tests. Even at launch (aug 2012), it was still pretty janky by today's standards and they've spent a lot of time cleaning it up. There's still content in there now (the final bossfight of the player campaign being a notable one) that feel like early game mechanic tech demos built long before anything else. Don't remember when it finally felt 'complete' and streamlined but it wasn't for a good year or two after that, approaching the first expansion (which also added a ton of core features) that the game's interface really felt intuitive, because player feedback is a huge moving target to iterate on, and the game content on nigh everything that wasn't in the starter zones (during beta) wasn't even seen until after launch so a lot of design decisions were worked over the game from the inside out over time [b]tl;dr[/b] took 5 and a half years from announcement to release of the core game, 3 of which before we saw anything other than a few models performing a run cycle or idle stand. Player feedback on the majority of the game started [I]after [/I]launch and playing it since then its been pretty noticeable just how much that has affected the game's core mechanics and how they approach updates moving forward A lot of people tend to forget, most AAA scale games are produced behind closed doors by complete teams with full funding+budgeting on day one, working for years before anyone knows more than the project's title (if that). We get a hype reveal trailer after a big game has been in the works for a good while, then don't see anything about it til a tech demo at the same conference the next year, then it gets released 6-12 months after that with a sparse 'beta' a few weeks/days before launch that's really just a server stress test dressed up as an early access tease

that arccorp stuff was pretty badass. the sheer scale of it, combined with the interior generation, makes me think this could be the first MMO to actually have immersive quests, where you fly to a location no player has been before, to complete a mission or kill a baddie which is [I]never[/I] recycled again - preventing that typical MMO dissonance where there's 30 people standing around the quest giver and you're acutely aware they're all receiving the exact same quest you are other games have done procedural quests but there's always telltale loadscreens and instancing between 'shared areas' and 'personal content'

[QUOTE=krail9;52829370]that arccorp stuff was pretty badass. the sheer scale of it, combined with the interior generation, makes me think this could be the first MMO to actually have [B]immersive quests, where you fly to a location no player has been before, to complete a mission or kill a baddie which is [I]never[/I] recycled again[/B] - preventing that typical MMO dissonance where there's 30 people standing around the quest giver and you're acutely aware they're all receiving the exact same quest you are other games have done procedural quests but there's always telltale loadscreens and instancing between 'shared areas' and 'personal content'[/QUOTE] After becoming an AMD Omega owner, one of the first things I heard in the garden of wild hopes and dreams aka 10ftC/CR interviews was that the lore of the game was to be a constantly-building thing, and this included "boss" NPCs having unique names that are never recycled when killed, even if the same general class of enemy respawns periodically for a particular mission template to have a functional target, so that Joe Spaceman can be recorded in the lore as [I]the[/I] killer of feared Vanduul pilot Noseripper McKnifelord. Funny how things look so different now but they're still converging on the same plans and dreams we considered lofty aspirations 2-3 years ago. It's almost like, despite their fuckups and unwise decisions, they have a plan. :v: Coincidentally, my account was created on the day of CitizenCon 2014 after I waited days for AMD to give me my freaking code, but I had no idea the event was even going on. If I had gone to the webpage at the right time and found the stream link, the first thing I saw of SC after registering might've been the original ArcCorp demo with the scripted cutscene fly-in. I think my hype would've been uncontainable and I probably would've had a much more embarrassing entry into this thread. :v:

Have they said anything about weapon and turret mounts being optional? From what the hardpoint dev blogs and general reports suggest is that there is no benefit not to run at least something in every slot. It's a small thing but something I do like about Elite is taking a ship like an Anaconda that can be an impressive combat ship and taking weapons off the hardpoints in exchange for faster speeds, longer jumps, and more energy efficiency. It's not a big thing, but something that occured when I was looking at videos for some of the ships I missed, especially luxury ships, where I might choose to run with a less-than-complete weapons complement if there is any benefit to it.

I don't know if cleaning out hardpoint slots is actually worthwhile in any capacity, now or in the future. But based on what we already know about CIG's plans and goals for ship components and what's already in with the Item 2.0 overhaul, here's some informed speculation: I think that from a certain perspective, you are in fact incentivized to run with something in every slot. However, as ship components start to mean something and ship subsystems start getting fleshed out in more detail, these factors may start being meaningful tradeoffs. On the new ship matrix, [I]every Aurora [U]except[/U] the MR[/I] has four S1 hardpoints, but only the LN actually starts with anything equipped to the whisker mounts. This means that the ES could mount as many guns as an LN; however, in practice, once the Aurora's components are all hooked up with realistic power draw and proper game system support, I suspect that doing this on a stock ES might brown out the engine's energy capacity if everything's turned on all at once. Pretty much the same thing as equipping a ship to exceed power capacity but leaving one or another module turned off to stay under budget in Elite. Mass could also become a factor if the components being removed are significant enough. They've got all of the data necessary to have normal/QT fuel efficiency vary by total mass so I'd be surprised if that doesn't end up somewhere in the code one day. The higher-end luxury ships (Phoenix, 890J, not the LX) are [I]overgunned[/I] compared to their non-luxury variants, on the principle that quality means protecting that quality with superior defense. Running one of them undergunned could probably be beneficial for travel efficiency if that's a thing but you're also looking at a situation where you're a prominent target and you're underequipped to protect yourself if alone.

having seen the procedural tech and watched most of Chris' citizencon presentation, its making me want to work at CIG (maybe if they really do switch to Vulkan ill find an opening).... because goddamn, that's some neat tech. [I]that[/I] is how procedural tech should be used, as an incredibly powerful tool to supplement hand-crafted content and the work of artists and designers. [sp]i work for a literal space company writing trajectory plotting software for thoroughly unique missions and im jealous of the duders at CIG[/sp] [sp]also i get paid fuckall because space industry lol[/sp] [editline]30th October 2017[/editline] im also kinda glad i've been keeping my head in the dirt about this game's progress, going to be lots more to discover and its nice to be pleasantly surprised by the scope of their tech and how solidly implemented things seem to be i was never an unbeliever, but my confidence in the core foundations of SC has been really solidified

I know Star Citizen is a labour of love, and they've definitely got the right people to make the dream a reality. My fear is that they'll run out of steam (cash) before the game's properly done, so what we might end up with is a very, very pretty game that's fleshed out in some areas but horribly shallow in others. Worse yet, they may have to team up with a traditional publisher.

I've never seen such an in depth procgen system, they've really outdone themselves with this.