Fallout Thread V30: The universe where everyone is left handed - Games

[QUOTE=_charon;51837779]Then you lost the fight because you abandoned your position[/QUOTE] Just like the first battle of hoover dam. Oh wait. The Legion lost that.

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;51837796]Just like the first battle of hoover dam. Oh wait. The Legion lost that.[/QUOTE] Because, in that case, the Rangers were in charge and led them into a trap. The Rangers know their shit. Unfortunately the Rangers aren't usually in charge because of bullshit bureaucracy and half the time we hear about a conflict between the Legion and the NCR, the Legion either swarmed the NCR and forced them to retreat, or have the NCR under siege and are slowly breaking down their position. edit: and even then, the Legion lost but the NCR couldn't push them back afterwards Legion is just biding its time till they get another chance

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51837750]I mean, The legion's strength is it's numbers and the unflinching loyalty of the legionaries. It's all well and good having the best equipment and training available, but when you have 5 men with combat armour and sniper rifles defending a camp against 50 men in rags waving machetes- It doesn't matter if you kill a full half of their number before they reach you, chances are you are still going to be hacked to pieces by whoever is left.[/QUOTE] Also to add onto that, It's like what happened to the BoS at the Power Plant, they had significantly advanced technology on their side and the know how to use it effectively,they took on the NCR in a fight, the NCR has rather low tech armour and weapons, but they have the man power to really push on the offensive, they took casualties but ultimately swarm tactics prevailed over a smaller but in every way better pile of soldiers, that's basically what happens with the NCR and the Legion, the Legion ultimately has more man power than the NCR, a willingness to die in battle, more crazy fucking batshit insane people willing to do WHATEVER POSSIBLE to succeed and trained commanders who have already fought skirmishes before. The main bulk of the NCR, the real soldiers are busy fighting the BoS and raiders, etc in their home territory or on other fronts and most of the soldiers sent in to take New Vegas are the dredges, given armour and a gun and some training and told to take land, with tons of bureaucracy fucking everything up and rather... Dim leaders. So it's really not [I]that[/I] surprising that the NCR could possibly lose New Vegas to the Legion. [editline]edit[/editline] Now if it was the main bulk of the NCR, the numbers they have that is rather split up on into different fronts working together, all of their trained soldiers with whatever technology that's being used to fight the Brotherhood, as well as the technology they've looted from the Brotherhood and from what I remember they have some working tanks and artillery, they'd fucking toast the Legion, but it's not, the NCR were already outstretched by trying to take New Vegas.

Was there ever a "canon" ending for NV? (In reality we all know legion will lose because once ceaser dies that's it, gg ez )

[QUOTE=_charon;51837747][t]https://s28.postimg.org/uv380ixhp/image.jpg[/t][t]https://s16.postimg.org/iwvjocqlh/image.jpg[/t][t]https://s15.postimg.org/5bvkxv6cb/Z91.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Okay Final Fantasy we get it, you're weird.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51837825]Was there ever a "canon" ending for NV? (In reality we all know legion will lose because once ceaser dies that's it, gg ez )[/QUOTE] There isn't, but I'm betting NCR wins because that's the most logical progression for the West Coast's story

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51837750]I mean, The legion's strength is it's numbers and the unflinching loyalty of the legionaries. It's all well and good having the best equipment and training available, but when you have 5 men with combat armour and sniper rifles defending a camp against 50 men in rags waving machetes- It doesn't matter if you kill a full half of their number before they reach you, chances are you are still going to be hacked to pieces by whoever is left.[/QUOTE] No, that's not how it works. The camp should be fortified. The legion has to go through obstacles and baracades, if they can even do that, and whatnot while being shot at. If there is no barricades, you could just spread the shooters out so that the machettes have to go to each individual while being shot from each individual. Sniper rifles aren't a good weapon here. Let's say assault rifles. Wait, assault weapons make this a wipe... Let's say semi-auto battle rifles. Even legion morale can't take that kind of strain. Oh, I'm pretty sure a guy in power armour, without any weapon but his power armour, could beat 50 guys with machetes. You sorely underestimate armour, and then there's power armour. I mean, machete's [I]could[/I] work in a comical world full of satire, but that's your only saving grace.

[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;51837776]Easy, shoot while running away.[/QUOTE] Depends on the situation, with the disadvantage in numbers you could easily become surrounded by the enemy. It would also be possible for them station some of their troops at various escape routes to spring ambushes as you retreat. Depending on your equipment even if you do escape, you might be forced to leave your spare ammo and heavier weapons behind for the enemy to scavenge and capture.

Plus people seem to forget that the Legion actually had an extensive spy network and the Legion weren't beyond using said spy tactics of which the NCR had really no defense against in the long run, they used this to great effectiveness as well, they had spies that provided them with information on NCR plans and troop movements and would on occasion sabotage NCR assets. So they had the man power AND they were one step ahead of NCR tacticians.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51837832]No, that's not how it works. The camp should be fortified. The legion has to go through obstacles and baracades, if they can even do that, and whatnot while being shot at. If there is no barricades, you could just spread the shooters out so that the machettes have to go to each individual while being shot from each individual. Sniper rifles aren't a good weapon here. Let's say assault rifles. Wait, assault weapons make this a wipe... Let's say semi-auto battle rifles. Even legion morale can't take that kind of strain. Oh, I'm pretty sure a guy in power armour, without any weapon but his power armour, could beat 50 guys with machetes. You sorely underestimate armour, and then there's power armour.[/QUOTE] The NCR's power armor is basically just shitty heavy metal that makes it impossible to move; pretty easy for the Legion to exploit that. Just swarm and stab between the armor plating. And again, the thing you're not getting - NCR versus Legion is a couple dozen kids with guns and mediocre training versus a hundred brainwashed nutjobs with machetes. Legion has the advantage in numbers, morale (the average NCR trooper is fucking [I]terrified[/I] of a full Legion battalion attacking), and training; they're two evenly matched forces, with the Legion slowly pushing in but not having nearly enough strength to take the NCR itself, while the NCR can't push an offensive into Legion territory either.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51837825]Was there ever a "canon" ending for NV? (In reality we all know legion will lose because once ceaser dies that's it, gg ez )[/QUOTE] We know New Vegas is perfectly fine, at least from the small amount of info that Fallout 4 provides us with, it's minute, but it's enough, sooooo, I'd assume that the NCR won and House lived, the Legion went back to lick it's wounds and the Courier went on his way.

[QUOTE=jonu67;51837810]Also to add onto that, It's like what happened to the BoS at the Power Plant, they had significantly advanced technology on their side and the know how to use it effectively,they took on the NCR in a fight, the NCR has rather low tech armour and weapons, but they have the man power to really push on the offensive, they took casualties but ultimately swarm tactics prevailed over a smaller but in every way better pile of soldiers, that's basically what happens with the NCR and the Legion, the Legion ultimately has more man power than the NCR, a willingness to die in battle, more crazy fucking batshit insane people willing to do WHATEVER POSSIBLE to succeed and trained commanders who have already fought skirmishes before. The main bulk of the NCR, the real soldiers are busy fighting the BoS and raiders, etc in their home territory or on other fronts and most of the soldiers sent in to take New Vegas are the dredges, given armour and a gun and some training and told to take land, with tons of bureaucracy fucking everything up and rather... Dim leaders. So it's really not [I]that[/I] surprising that the NCR could possibly lose New Vegas to the Legion. [editline]edit[/editline] Now if it was the main bulk of the NCR, the numbers they have that is rather split up on into different fronts working together, all of their trained soldiers with whatever technology that's being used to fight the Brotherhood, as well as the technology they've looted from the Brotherhood and from what I remember they have some working tanks and artillery, they'd fucking toast the Legion, but it's not, the NCR were already outstretched by trying to take New Vegas.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between a detachment of BoS stationed to protect a power station and the NCR throwing half an army at them than a proper full on army vs army engagement though. Swarm tactics are going to be less efficient out in the open as well.

O[QUOTE=The Jack;51837832]No, that's not how it works. The camp should be fortified. The legion has to go through obstacles and baracades, if they can even do that, and whatnot while being shot at. If there is no barricades, you could just spread the shooters out so that the machettes have to go to each individual while being shot from each individual. Sniper rifles aren't a good weapon here. Let's say assault rifles. Wait, assault weapons make this a wipe... Let's say semi-auto battle rifles. Even legion morale can't take that kind of strain. Oh, I'm pretty sure a guy in power armour, without any weapon but his power armour, could beat 50 guys with machetes. You sorely underestimate armour, and then there's power armour. I mean, machete's [I]could[/I] work in a comical world full of satire, but that's your only saving grace.[/QUOTE] Don't forget, legion also have armour. But they are also HEAVILY doped up on all kinds of healing powder Fanatical to a fault and will climb over the dead bodies of their allies just for a CHANCE of hacking you to bits. Basically at the end of the day, it's 40k Imperial guard vs a small batch of Orcs.

Nobody wears armour that makes them worse. And I bet the NCR do have some full sets of power armour around. They also have vehicles like vertibirds, and it doesn't matter how many arrows you shoot at a vertibird. I guess they sometimes have a few legionaries with heavier weapons, but that's a rarity. Swarm tactics don't work against full auto. Swarm tactics are also how you suffer Pyrrhic victories and great defeats. Mediocre training with modern weapons is better than brainwashed nutjobs. All out, loss of life is acceptable attacks might win battles, but they aren't great for wars. Stalin's an exception, but he was a lot more reasonable than Ceasar.

[QUOTE=venom;51837883]There's a difference between a detachment of BoS stationed to protect a power station and the NCR throwing half an army at them than a proper full on army vs army engagement though. Swarm tactics are going to be less efficient out in the open as well than in a power station.[/QUOTE] The point is enough people with adequate equipment can get the job done and The Legion have enough equipment and armored dudes who really don't care about death to get that job done, I mean not every single soldier is going to be a machete wielding crazy person, they do have guns as well, as well as the fact that they've infiltrated the NCR and know how they operate. They also have commanders who aren't total buffoons, I mean fuck, General Oliver barely grasps basic military strategy, while The Legion had Joshua Graham and then his replacement, Legate Lanius, the fucking [B]Monster of the East[/B], for the NCR we have a total fucking idiot who's doing it for brownie points and doesn't really care how many people die in the process and the Legion had two military strategists of the highest degree.

I grabbed the season pass a few days ago and redownloaded fallout 4 (haven't played since christmas 2015) and i'm about to FUCKING join isis and blow myself up over how difficult it is to install a mod. I spent the last hour trying to get the nexus mod manager to install an expanded dialog menu mod. I got deep into an official troubleshooting guide that didn't help and when I tried to revert the guide's various .ini modifications it made me do, the game broke and i'm currently reinstalling the whole fucking thing to give me a clean start to try again. why can't I just click the "DOWNLOAD (NMM)" button and have the fucker just work? this is a clean install with no other mods or edits.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51837891]Nobody wears armour that makes them worse. And I bet the NCR do have some full sets of power armour around. They also have vehicles like vertibirds, and it doesn't matter how many arrows you shoot at a vertibird. I guess they sometimes have a few legionaries with heavier weapons, but that's a rarity.[/QUOTE] They have exactly one vertibird and the Brotherhood destroys any power armor they can't have edit: and the guy behind the armored NCR heavy troopers is explicitly a dumbass

[QUOTE=The Jack;51837891]Nobody wears armour that makes them worse. And I bet the NCR do have some full sets of power armour around. They also have vehicles like vertibirds, and it doesn't matter how many arrows you shoot at a vertibird. I guess they sometimes have a few legionaries with heavier weapons, but that's a rarity. Swarm tactics don't work against full auto. Swarm tactics are also how you suffer Pyrrhic victories and great defeats. Mediocre training with modern weapons is better than brainwashed nutjobs. All out, loss of life is acceptable attacks might win battles, but they aren't great for wars. Stalin's an exception, but he was a lot more reasonable than Ceasar.[/QUOTE] This is where the numbers aspect comes into play once more, For the legion- Pyrrhic victories are victories none the less. If they lose 5 legionaries for every trooper they kill, the NCR still took a bigger hit to it's forces simply because the legion has so many more to spare.

The legion is surrounded by enemies, and no doubt has enemies within. People don't reproduce that fast and the wasteland is harsh. The NCR should always win if they entrench themselves. a 100-1 numbers advantage should mean shit if you've got both advanced weapons and the fortifications to protect them. Side note: whatever happened to all those intelligent super mutants from prior east coast games? What's their relation to the NCR?

[QUOTE=The Jack;51837991]The legion is surrounded by enemies, and no doubt has enemies within. People don't reproduce that fast and the wasteland is harsh. The NCR should always win if they entrench themselves. a 100-1 numbers advantage should mean shit if you've got both advanced weapons and the fortifications to protect them. Side note: whatever happened to all those intelligent super mutants from prior east coast games? What's their relation to the NCR?[/QUOTE] What enemies are surrounding them? Only known forces comparable to the Legion (besides the Institute who probably wouldn't give a shit if they even knew about them) are together in NCR territory. NCR [I]should[/I] always win when entrenched, but they don't. Also you don't win wars by sitting around and waiting. And the NCR generally doesn't like super mutants, intelligent or not; however there was a cut Ranger who was a super mutant, so at least some of their leadership must be lenient towards them. Intelligent super mutants are mostly just hiding around the fringes of the NCR, trying their best to survive, or rampaging around and generally going nuts if they're Nightkin.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51837991]Side note: whatever happened to all those intelligent super mutants from prior east coast games? What's their relation to the NCR?[/QUOTE] First Gen Super Mutants are around, hated and discrimminated against by the NCR. The Jacobstown Supermutants, Tabatha and all Nightkin (probably), Neil, and Mean Sonavabitch are First Gen Super Mutants that headed east to get away from the NCR. There was also a Super Mutant in the NCR Rangers but was cut, whether his cut means the idea of Super Mutants in the NCR army was axed entirely too is something for AMAs or Sawyer's old formspring account.

See, I think super mutants (the west coast intellegent ones) would be a great tool in rebuilding the world of fallout. When people get old or sick,offer them the chance to become supermutants in service to the people. Super-brains+imortality along with super physical attributes would let them really give civilization a leg up. Plus being fit, huge and green is better than being old and dying. I mean, actual progress would ruin the setting, but it'd be interesting.

Most of the West Coast / Mariposa breed Super Mutants really aren't all that "intelligent" (i.e: they're somewhere inbetween the average post-war human and their East Coast cousins IQ wise) discounting noteworthy cases and possibly the Nightkin of course but even then, they're also likely not all mentally 'there' in other places (in other words they could very well be psychopathic or in the case of the Nightkin, completely batshit insane). Individuals like Marcus who managed to keep their cool and their intellect for long would do nicely though in roles besides peacekeeping or maintenance work, like keeping tabs on history in a similar way to Brotherhood Scribes for example.

There's probably no canon ending to NV. I know Fallout's tend to align to a canon ending for the sake of sequels, but I don't think we'll ever find out the state of NV in future titles and that's a-okay with me. I think you're just meant to assume that, without the couriers intervention, the NCR would have eventually pushed through and are now maintaining an uneasy alliance with House. Taking the couriers intervention into account, and the canon ending is literally what you want it to be.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51838217]See, I think super mutants (the west coast intellegent ones) would be a great tool in rebuilding the world of fallout. When people get old or sick,offer them the chance to become supermutants in service to the people. Super-brains+imortality along with super physical attributes would let them really give civilization a leg up. Plus being fit, huge and green is better than being old and dying. I mean, actual progress would ruin the setting, but it'd be interesting.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't work out so well because the mutants made by the Master only had like a 1/25 chance of retaining their intellect, and he hunted down the best possible subjects to dip. I'd say that randomly dipping people, especially old people with accumulated background rad and FEV exposure, will probably lead to a smart super mutant every 1/1000 successful dips. The actual rate would probably be 1/10000 after failed dips that create centaurs/abdominally inverted meat piles. I guess you could condition the dumb ones to be low level ground troops, but they're unpredictable. The FO2 Mariposa mutants weren't even trained to hate humans, they just immediately started killing as soon as they were born.

Yeah I feel that NV doesn't really need a cannon ending. Whoever won the battle for hoover dam, the rest of america isn't necessarily going to be effected overmuch. The NCR are still going to control the west and the Legion are still going to be prowling the east in one form or another. One faction or the other will have gained some ground, but it wasn't really like other fallout games where some endings included the complete annihilation of certain factions. IIRC even nuking a faction's territory in LR only served to sever their trade routes and supply lines to vegas, as opposed to decimating their entire territory.

imagine the "siding with elijah and covering new vegas with the cloud and killing everyone" being the cannon ending :v: One thing about the legion that I think people miss is that Caesar's endgame was to make Vegas his Rome, like he says. I always interpreted that to mean that he'd use Vegas as the urban center needed to jump start cultural growth in his empire, and start to make societal progress and establish a more functioning government. It makes a more interesting choice if you keep that in mind, i guess :v:

[QUOTE=Mining Bill;51838524]imagine the "siding with elijah and covering new vegas with the cloud and killing everyone" being the cannon ending :v: One thing about the legion that I think people miss is that Caesar's endgame was to make Vegas his Rome, like he says. I always interpreted that to mean that he'd use Vegas as the urban center needed to jump start cultural growth in his empire, and start to make societal progress and establish a more functioning government. It makes a more interesting choice if you keep that in mind, i guess :v:[/QUOTE] He says that but I don't know how it would actually come to pass. Vegas, old and new, is a tourist trap not a captial city. If he keeps things running like they are it would undermine the hardened survivalist culture he had built and replacing it with the "degenerate weakness" he's brainwashed his slaves to hate. If he wants a city with electrical power power how will he maintain it with an uneducated luddite slave force?

I find either the NCR or Independent endings to be the most qualified for being 'canon' out of the whole bunch.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51838552]I find either the NCR or Independent endings to be the most qualified for being 'canon' out of the whole bunch.[/QUOTE] Don't discredit Mr House, unless there's no Courier. He'd be stuck without a physical agent to do the things he needs to win.