Game's not it without tedium in everything huh...
Depths: [sp]I was there and got my ass tossed around by black magicians. I read that I wasn't supposed to be there yet? Had to turn back. Thanks for the karma loss and putting me in a bad spot, game.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52044522]Game's not it without tedium in everything huh...
Depths: [sp]I was there and got my ass tossed around by black magicians. I read that I wasn't supposed to be there yet? Had to turn back. Thanks for the karma loss and putting me in a bad spot, game.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp] You'll need to be marked before they let you pass. Find Five Pebbles first.[/sp]
[media]https://twitter.com/RainWorldGame/status/848306691536023552[/media]
I feel like this game would be 1000 times better if they removed the timer and just upped the threat of the enemies. Too many times where you die not because you fucked up dying to an enemy but because you chose to scout a route and it ended up being a dead end.
The game would be 1000 times better if the level layout design isn't a complete ass that punishes mistakes with "point of no return", dead ends, sprawling loops, "no spear? lol 2bad", and route cockblockers. Welp, let's go this way then OH WAIT rain's in 4 min guess you won't be able to make it back to your previous bunker now haha
Like, how many times you missed a jump oh now you gotta navigate like 4 maps to attempt that jump again. Oh right, 2 giant centipedes' in the way, well yeah, guess I'll just kill myself now.
----
Diary cycle 140:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/D8Rd22G.png[/t]
This blue butt's been blocking the only way forward for 3 days now. Food's running low. Send help
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52047317]The game would be 1000 times better if the level layout design isn't a complete ass that punishes mistakes with "point of no return", dead ends, sprawling loops, "no spear? lol 2bad", and route cockblockers. Welp, let's go this way then OH WAIT rain's in 4 min guess you won't be able to make it back to your previous bunker now haha[/QUOTE]
This is my biggest issue with the game, give me rooms packed with lizards and vultures for all I care, too many times the game assumes (incorrectly) that there's always going to be a spear or a flying octopus around. Sometimes when you get lucky and find a spear you better not miss or though shit.
Farm array is the worst for this kind of thing. I don't like farm array.
[img]http://image.prntscr.com/image/350c76b39be54cf093492120773d379f.png[/img]
Some of the more linear sections are also not fun, because of the variable time before the rain your only option is to speedrun it and hope for the best, which means a lot of deaths and trial and error. Thankfully those sections don't have karma requirements but they just feel like they don't fit the spirit of the game
Oh? I actually find the linear sections to be better parts of the game because it is less on getting lost and more on platforming and engaging the beasts (I've long lost the little helper robot that is why I've been wandering the wrong regions all the time, no idea wtf I should go for almost 20 hours now). I do agree that it doesn't fit the spirit of the game which revolves around survival and ecosystem.
After I'm done with the game, I'll probably write up a small suggestion on re-designing some elements that might improve the game experience since I'm actually playing this for game-deconstruction purposes (I'm making a game that is somewhat similar yet very different).
Four player co-op confirmed by the official twitter, probably gonna be local though so good chances I'll never get to use it :v:
Anyone else found [sp]the room full of exploding spears[/sp] god if only I could bring more of those with me, legit best item in the game.
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52048342]Anyone else found [sp]the room full of exploding spears[/sp] god if only I could bring more of those with me, legit best item in the game.[/QUOTE]
[sp]Yes. I didn't know they were exploding when I picked the first one, and proceeded to throw it to see if the other spears had the cool red cloth around them.
One of my most stupid deaths, right before "I can go through this open space area without getting picked by a vulture" and "I'm pretty sure I can jump over that lizard and get to the next area".[/sp]
I just missed [sp]Five Pebbles[/sp] and moved to [sp]the Wall[/sp], after hours of confusion now I'm returning to [sp]Shaded Citadel[/sp] through [sp]Chimney Canopy > Industry[/sp] on foot.
Tiiiime well spent. At least I got the hang of things and non-horned non-white Lizards aren't a threat anymore. I like the "higher" regions because I do absolutely zero swimming.
It feels like I'm constantly fighting the controls. Yeah sure, slugcat, take a nice rest in the middle of this pipe because you entered it ass first. Not like you're being chased by a lizard or anything. Oh now you want to enter the dead-end pipe instead of the pipe that gets you away from the lizard? Thanks for the karma loss.
surprised nobody posted this yet but this seems a nice summary of the game
[media]https://twitter.com/JamesMBroderick/status/848302136400236544[/media]
Holy shit, the ending doesn't disappoint
There's still so much stuff that I haven't seen, and what I've seen of the lore is really interesting stuff, but I think I'm going to give it a break until there's more concrete information around on where to go and what to do, I'm really happy that overall the game far exceeded my expectations but I don't think my nerves can take much more for now :scream:
So the consensus now is that the reviewers were right in that the game's too difficult and that the progression system works against the game's favor? I'm still interested in playing it but looking at the "I played for 5 hours and I made no progress" horror stories is kind of scaring me.
They're only half right in my opinion. The random generation and procedural animation means sometimes you'll die without it really being your fault and it can be quite frustrating, but the vast majority of your deaths are still going to be from your own mistakes or poor planning.
The game's difficult, takes a bit to get used to the controls, and the karma system means sometimes you need to do well consistently in order to progress rather than getting lucky once.
You shouldn't think of progress as moving forward, sometimes progress is survive for x number of days in a hub area before you can move on. The game is constantly shifting between platforming and survival sections, and they're both part of the experience.
If you just so happen to have made it to a karma gate while your karma is still high, then great, you get to skip the survival part.
I would go as far as to say it's a blessing in disguise, the first time I've been stuck in an area for a while I picked up a lot of tricks that greatly helped me get through the next stages.
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;52050059]Holy shit, the ending doesn't disappoint
There's still so much stuff that I haven't seen, and what I've seen of the lore is really interesting stuff, but I think I'm going to give it a break until there's more concrete information around on where to go and what to do, I'm really happy that overall the game far exceeded my expectations but I don't think my nerves can take much more for now :scream:[/QUOTE]
The lore I've seen makes me think the high difficulty is intentional.
Some spoilers here. Kinda long.
[sp]So those colored pearls have unique lore on them, and you can bring them to Moon after you get marked by Five Pebbles. They involve motives of the AIs as well as info about the ancients that used to live on the planet. They were obsessed with karma and ascending to a higher form. The five karma symbols you start out with are the 5 troubles they attempted to purge from themselves. The posters after Five Pebbles seems to clue at them. One of the pearls mentions that the 4th rank(The 4 tiered lines) is Gluttony. If you check the posters, that symbol has a man eating chicken surrounded by blue berries so it seems to check out. Guide also shows that symbol when pointing out food to you.
The five tiers seem to be something like
Upside down 2 = The world has mastery over you(A guy bleeding and begging for his life in the poster)
backwards c with a line = Success (Someone defeating someone else, holding rewards)
Two E's = Respect/Status (A person with two others showing reverence towards them)
Four tiered line = Gluttony (As explained above)
^ with three lines = Survivor (A man shielding himself from all dangers)
Which seems to line up with how you treat the game. At first the world is chewing you up and spitting you out. You gain some minor success as you progress and are rewarded. Enemies, allies, or friends gain a certain respect of you. You start to worry less about food because you know how to get it and avoid obstacles towards it. And eventually the enemies become less of a threat to you even in head on confrontation.
It's no coincidence that you can't beat the game until you gain the karma ranks above those 5, because you haven't mastered the game til those aren't as much of an issue for you.[/sp]
[sp]There's this massive red plant thing in the drainage sewer and I'm kinda terrified to go near it. Doesn't help that it doesn't seem to care about anything I throw at it as well as seemingly ignoring lizards. [/sp]
[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;52049615]It feels like I'm constantly fighting the controls. Yeah sure, slugcat, take a nice rest in the middle of this pipe because you entered it ass first. Not like you're being chased by a lizard or anything. Oh now you want to enter the dead-end pipe instead of the pipe that gets you away from the lizard? Thanks for the karma loss.[/QUOTE]
The controls are actually really precise, I've found, but excessively bloated. Some keypress will completely change what the slugcat will do depending on its state, coupled with non-existential tutorial, it can seem unresponsive because the dumb cat kept doing thing you didn't want it to do. I'll write a movement guide when I have the time.
[QUOTE=Cliff2;52051667]The lore I've seen makes me think the high difficulty is intentional.
Some spoilers here. Kinda long.[/QUOTE]
Interesting tie in. It justifies the difficulty but NOT the bad design decisions. Like (lategame region)[sp]Five Pebbles[/sp] ohmygod it never ends and goes in circles.
[QUOTE=Killer monkey;52051947][sp]There's this massive red plant thing in the drainage sewer and I'm kinda terrified to go near it. Doesn't help that it doesn't seem to care about anything I throw at it as well as seemingly ignoring lizards. [/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]They don't ignore Lizards. They detect movement and will eat any too close and too noisy. They are really useful against centipedes which I FUCKING HATE. If you move slowly, they won't bother you but make sure there isn't anything moving nearby (including bats). My general strategy is run towards it and toss a rock at it when it almost latches (or spear for extended safe time). Grow some balls![/sp]
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52051975]
[sp]They don't ignore Lizards. They detect movement and will eat any too close and too noisy. They are really useful against centipedes which I FUCKING HATE. If you move slowly, they won't bother you but make sure there isn't anything moving nearby (including bats). My general strategy is run towards it and toss a rock at it when it almost latches (or spear for extended safe time). Grow some balls![/sp][/QUOTE]
That was my plan but when I tried getting there the last 5 times this fucking white lizard pretty much fucked me everytime.
Ok finally I finished, got the dang ending. [sp]It's cool I guess? The whole beyond life thing.[/sp]
Am I now in the 0.4% cool club.
I'll prolly play bit more for the achievements, then I'm officially done with the game.
Guess I can write a small guide and review afterwards
[editline]now[/editline]
[DEL]Hey uh.... Anyone know where the save file located at? I might want to copy my finished game to save slot 2 so I can restart with maps intact[/DEL]
Found it! The format is really weird...
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52051975]
Interesting tie in. It justifies the difficulty but NOT the bad design decisions. Like (lategame region)[sp]Five Pebbles[/sp] ohmygod it never ends and goes in circles.
[/QUOTE]
Definitely agree there, there's some really bad design stuff that can happen. Was watching a friends first playthrough in the Garbage Wastes, and he got to a transporter vent, it flashed white briefly once and immediately a daddy long legs popped out and grabbed him. Long legs seem to have very broken transporter interaction(I've noticed them do the same thing). I think the tutorials could have a little more to them too. Have people actually go through a gate in the beginning. Cause a lot of people seem to not realize that you need to stand still at the gates and instead jump around inside it, notice it doesn't open, and then leave confused.
Like there's a lot of really cool stuff in this game, but in a game this punishing, having broken systems can really frustrate a person.
I've even seen a vulture pop through a pipe just to grab a lizard and instantly go back in. Weird shit.
Some interesting insight from the dev on how scavengers work, turns out they hold grudges
[quote]
First off, each Scavenger (and also pretty much every other creature in the game) has its own individual opinion of you, in addition to your general reputation across the tribe. So you can trade well with them and have a tribe generally like you, but if there is a Scav that previously had some beef with you, they might be more trigger happy than the others.
Secondly, the Scavenger tribes have leaders (you can probably tell) that can influence how the nearby Scavs act. If they feel threatened they can rile up even otherwise friendly Scavs.
And lastly but probably more of what you are actually asking (sorry!), a lot of the way they interpret threats is by the players posture and movements. If you are holding a spear or some other weapon, that will make them feel threatened. If you are moving quickly and especially jumping towards them, that will put them on edge, etc etc. If they are acting aggressively, the safest way to act around them is to drop what you are holding and bow down, acknowledging their control of the area[/quote]
It's hard to spot if you aren't paying attention but you can see their mood from their body language, when they are on edge they will keep their distance and will get startled if you move fast or jump (they twitch and their eyes go wide), friendly scavengers will approach you and extend their arm toward you if they want to trade
[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohzdRv0nS8KrBQL60/giphy.gif[/img]
There's a staggering amount of details about animal behavior that I've missed the first time around, like how most predators "light up" or give off particles when they hear you, and how lizard types have very different levels of aggression and intelligence, not just different abilities
[QUOTE=Yogkog;52050143]So the consensus now is that the reviewers were right in that the game's too difficult and that the progression system works against the game's favor? I'm still interested in playing it but looking at the "I played for 5 hours and I made no progress" horror stories is kind of scaring me.[/QUOTE]
It's a good game with some very bad design decisions that may ruin it depending on how patient you are. It's also pretty glitchy.
I feel like, if they wanted to include the karma system, they should have removed the randomness, and vice versa if they wanted the randomness. You can play flawlessly and still get fucked by awful luck and that wouldn't really be an issue except for the doors that won't open because you kept dying to bad luck. It's stupid that you can progress through the game getting fucked by bad luck and then get hit with a door that asks that you have level 5 karma to get through it, especially when there's barely any food in the area to get your karma back up (thinking specifically of that one underhang door).
I'd recommend it.
Isn't overhang the last area before five pebbles? There's so much food there I had to stop being a hoarder because it was starting to glitch out and there's no enemies between the shelter and the karma gate. I think you might have missed something.
[IMG]http://image.prntscr.com/image/b57e222f5c1e4eb1abbdd28f12b7a37e.png[/IMG]
I ought to write a small overall design change suggestions but oh well here I go a short lazy version without pictures:
[quote][B]1. After some thoughts I think the karma system should be removed completely (however it is unfortunately tied with the lore).
2. In adjustment to the removed karma gate: Food required to hibernate increased by 1 (require 5, reserves 3).
3. Food scarcity increased. Now only a select few maps have enough food to store up to 8, instead of commonly near save points.
4. Protection flower now protects map discovery instead of karma. (If you die with flower, you keep the updated explored map)[/B]
I've come up with this idea since most don't quite like the karma system that punishes the hell out of deaths.
I believe the purpose of Karma (other than narrative sense) is a proof of your mastery of a region before you are allowed to move on.
In my opinion, if you are able to get to the gate, AND have enough food to hibernate with the higher food requirement, you passed.
In this iteration, players are expected to hunt until they can confidently start a new cycle with reserved food in the belly before they set out to push exploration.
They can no longer push for an exploration run an empty stomach due to food no longer spawn enough near save points.
[B]5. Cycle length (time before rain) should be hand-adjusted for each hibernation chamber.[/B]
Often I have to die or stall a day because bad luck with "short days", which is random per spawn, if I need to push for an exploration run.
What I am suggesting is that the devs should intensively test the average time for a player to hunt food and return to hibernation OR straight doing a blind run to the next nearest save point.
It should be tested for EACH chamber. That means if waking up from each chamber might result in different cycle lengths, so be it.
This will also make linear regions a little more fair and intense. Which brings me to my next final point...
[B]6. Level layout should be sub-linear for "exploration route" and stacks for "food hunt route".[/B]
Can't come up with a better terminology, but simply put, stacks is what the current map layout is, think Sky Island.
Sub-linear means linear but might have a two way branching path that leads to the next room. Choose A or B to get to C, basically.
Stacks around a chamber, sub-linear between chambers. Think the later parts of Underhang, except bigger stack-formation.
This way, players don't have to deal with maps that lead exploring players back in a loop after a tough run.
This isn't a dungeon-based RPG, there is no often chest reward before being dropped back to dungeon entrance...
Could easily have a better suggestion but this is what I have for now.[/quote]
Anyways, with so much emergent gameplay, I've turned on Instant Replay since yesterday. Have some reckless Slugcat action.
[video]https://youtu.be/I8tO3fts58c[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/KFHAdfD6dnc[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/cPVRPItfeVA[/video]
I'm doing a new playthrough but this time I won't hurt [sp]the robot girl[/sp]... Naturally I'm a lot more rush-y and suicidal on my new run.
[editline]just now[/editline]
Day 4 of a new run (deathless so far) and already tough shit's happening.
[video]https://youtu.be/SNcJTBtCWKI[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/auDg6-msAQQ[/video]
There's a swimming-based room in Shoreline that's difficult to do, because falling water makes it difficult to come up for air. After trying and failing to do it several times, I finally succeeded, and started walljumping up to the exit at the top of the room. At that moment two of the water-farting frogs fall out and push me back into the water, and I can't even see the character's silhouette until he's already dead. Fuck.
Is there any good footage anywhere of when you run out of time and it starts flooding?
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;52056470]Is there any good footage anywhere of when you run out of time and it starts flooding?[/QUOTE]
[DEL]I can take your request. Any specification?[/DEL]
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;52056470]Is there any good footage anywhere of when you run out of time and it starts flooding?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;gPanGg8IfNA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPanGg8IfNA[/video]
Here's a video of what flooding looks like when you're not on the surface. Made a clip of escaping what seriously looked like certain death. Rain starts around 3 mins in.
Need some help in [sp]Shaded Citadel, I came in here from Industrial Complex and feel pretty ill-equipped. Using the small geckos for light doesn't seem to work as some crawly spider things end up snuffing him out then poor Slugcat right after. Any tips?
Not sure either if I should keep pressing on or back off and go back to Industrial Complex. I managed to get into Chimney Canopy earlier but wanted to check out the Citadel instead.
God this game is guuuuuuud[/sp]
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