Project Zomboid v. 7 - Games

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42098588]I wonder if there will come a point where those 2D spreadsheets will be more expensive to have than to just render the 3D on the fly. Surely with enough variations to animation, the amount of sheets (especially clothing), will increase ten fold, right?[/QUOTE] Nah - consider the alternative, what would be ballooning as we progress were the 3D models being rendered directly: Every character drawn consists of: - a base skinned mesh, textured - a shirt skinned mesh of some kind, textured - pair of trousers skinned mesh of some kind, textured - blood / bandage overlays (either as textured meshes positioned at each bone as required, or drawn to the appropriate clothing / base model texture on the fly) - a hair mesh, textured (long hair would need to be a skinned mesh) - (if male) possible beard mesh, textured - (coming soon) glasses, hats, etc meshes, textured So that's quite possibly 3 (or more, depending on the blood / bandage system and hair) skinned meshes, plus a bunch of rigid meshes each textured, and potentially some dynamic texture creation, to be uploaded and drawn [I]per character[/i]. While all the clothing textures could probably be condensed onto combined texture sheets, it's still unlikely that everything will end up fitting on just one, so to draw a whole bunch of zombies and NPCs onscreen, you're almost certainly going to have to swap the texture at some point drawing the character. So instead of having to swap a couple of texture pages to draw the sprite, you now (potentially) have to swap multiple textures as you're drawing the meshes and additionally render skinned models which isn't the fastest thing to do on the planet. No matter how ridiculously nuts we end up with textures, it's never going to be as great a burden graphically as having to draw hundreds of skinned models per frame. And while all skinned meshes can share the same animation data and each character can use the same bone transforms, most characters will need their own set. So at best, for each character, you're saving one or two texture swaps at the expense of drawing hundreds of times more textured polygons, most of them requiring bone transform uploads and a skin shader. Multiplied up by the number of onscreen characters we often have and... ouch. I invite you to find me an example of a small budget indie game which draws hundreds of unique (so no hardware instancing), fully animated, soft-skinned, customisable character models on screen which doesn't demand a top of the range Alienware PC to run :) It's not a fair way to compare because it doesn't work like this, but it does give you an idea of the footprint of a skinned and animated mesh that, on disk, a single .X file containing the base mesh plus all its animations and skin data (so everything we need to draw a bald naked untextured man in the game) exceeds (by quite some margin) the file size of [i]all[/i] the texture pages we're using currently (everything we need to draw all the characters, clothed, with hair, both genders, multiple skin tones, whatever we need).

Does anyone know how to get Zomboid working on Steam? I redeemed the key, installed it but when I launch I get a black box that disappears before I can read it and that's it.

[QUOTE=CaptainBinky;42163566]Nah - consider the alternative, what would be ballooning as we progress were the 3D models being rendered directly...[/QUOTE] I suppose on Java, it would also make much more sense with that reasoning to use sheets. But what about some of the more modern engines? I thought one of the neat things they have is some kind of instancing where you can see hundreds of the same object, each skinned and doing their own thing, but your computer would only need one of them for memory?

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42172104]I suppose on Java, it would also make much more sense with that reasoning to use sheets. But what about some of the more modern engines? I thought one of the neat things they have is some kind of instancing where you can see hundreds of the same object, each skinned and doing their own thing, but your computer would only need one of them for memory?[/QUOTE] Yeah, hardware instancing - upload one set of vertices / indices and then you just need to upload a bunch of matrices to render shed loads of meshes. Super fast... except that's more for static geometry - small res meshes which only have unique transformations (like rocks, bushes, stuff like that). A soft-skinned model is generally fairly high poly, plus needs around 60 matrix uploads for the bone rotations. You could use it maybe for the low level of detail zombies in the distance - have a set of pre-deformed meshes representing a ten frame zombie shuffle, and then instance those in the distance, or something along those lines. But it's never going to be as fast and allow you to have as great a number as only having to pop one screen-space quad on the screen.

Sweet, finally on steam. [editline]14th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Leintharien;42098588]I wonder if there will come a point where those 2D spreadsheets will be more expensive to have than to just render the 3D on the fly. Surely with enough variations to animation, the amount of sheets (especially clothing), will increase ten fold, right?[/QUOTE] Reminds me of SR IV and that one rescue mission.

Pretty sweet: [url]http://projectzomboid.com/blog/2013/09/iso-revolution/[/url] I like the way this game is mostly based around 3D models now, it'll make it easier for people to mod it

Holy hot damned potatoes. This was on their twitter: [img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVVIUyrCAAEtNUU.png:large[/img] [quote]Lighting test (ignore texturing and lack of 'this vert should not be lit by this light') for new 3D-camera-ulated PZ[/quote] Now, if this means what I think it means, then campfires, flashlights, and the interiors of houses when powered, will look sooo much better. Maybe flashlights will have an actual cone of light instead of illuminated tiles? Maybe when you shine at an angle on a brick wall, it will show strong bump-mapping? Or- OH! OH! [I]Dynamic shadows from houses/buildings, that skew and stretch as the sun makes its arc through the sky.[/I] Fffffff- that would be great.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42349526]Now, if this means what I think it means, then campfires, flashlights, and the interiors of houses when powered, will look sooo much better. Maybe flashlights will have an actual cone of light instead of illuminated tiles? Maybe when you shine at an angle on a brick wall, it will show strong bump-mapping? Or- OH! OH! [I]Dynamic shadows from houses/buildings, that skew and stretch as the sun makes its arc through the sky.[/I] Fffffff- that would be great.[/QUOTE] Hello. Well, primarily this new system is being developed for performance reasons - that the lighting looks a little nicer is kind of a bonus at this stage. That screenshot, and the ones from our latest Mondoid were taken from an OpenGL engine testbed - it's currently being integrated into the game build and, as that happens, I'm sure minor issues will crop up which will affect precisely what will be possible with the system. So as far as all of that stuff you mentioned... in theeeeeory, such stuff becomes a possibility - but until we actually get it in-game and tested, that potential remains just theory. That said, we're quietly optimistic that we'll be able to provide some benefits beyond simply slightly nicer lighting, so that as well as the performance gains for lower specced computers, those with higher specs will similarly see noticeable improvements and benefits.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42349526][I]Dynamic shadows from houses/buildings, that skew and stretch as the sun makes its arc through the sky.[/I][/QUOTE] This, and vampire zombies. I Am Legend mode.

[QUOTE=CaptainBinky;42367809]Hello. Well, primarily this new system is being developed for performance reasons - that the lighting looks a little nicer is kind of a bonus at this stage. That screenshot, and the ones from our latest Mondoid were taken from an OpenGL engine testbed - it's currently being integrated into the game build and, as that happens, I'm sure minor issues will crop up which will affect precisely what will be possible with the system. So as far as all of that stuff you mentioned... in theeeeeory, such stuff becomes a possibility - but until we actually get it in-game and tested, that potential remains just theory. That said, we're quietly optimistic that we'll be able to provide some benefits beyond simply slightly nicer lighting, so that as well as the performance gains for lower specced computers, those with higher specs will similarly see noticeable improvements and benefits.[/QUOTE] Oh I see. I am looking forward to seeing what it looks like on the engine proper. Part of my hype for it was also to see that the tiling on flat walls was less visible, but if it was on a different engine, it would explain why. One thing I am still wondering about is how the polygonal mesh for buildings is being constructed. Does each tile have its own face? Obviously this would make things much easier to convert over, and make it easy for modularity, but it would be harder on hardware over the alternative of making a dynamic face construction system that would scale the mesh 1x1 -> 1x3 or 1x5. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1318910/walls.jpg[/img]

I love the game, but even with the changes they've made to the GUI it's still pretty inaccessible. It would really help the game if they made it easier looting, interacting and managing inventory.

[QUOTE=Leintharien;42388242]Oh I see. I am looking forward to seeing what it looks like on the engine proper. Part of my hype for it was also to see that the tiling on flat walls was less visible, but if it was on a different engine, it would explain why.[/QUOTE] The tiling is less visible, because the lighting is done in a fragment shader rather than being done per vertex. This will still be true when it goes into the game proper (unless you pick a low graphics setting, and then we'll do it in the vertex shader) [QUOTE=Leintharien;42388242]One thing I am still wondering about is how the polygonal mesh for buildings is being constructed. Does each tile have its own face? Obviously this would make things much easier to convert over, and make it easy for modularity, but it would be harder on hardware over the alternative of making a dynamic face construction system that would scale the mesh 1x1 -> 1x3 or 1x5.[/QUOTE] In the short-term, each wall segment will be its own face (or faces, if it's a window / doorway) because even if you filled the screen with buildings, we're not exactly pushing polygon limits :D But we have considered how we would optimise this if needed - but there's no point adding additional time to getting the system in when we can do it quicker and simpler for now and then maybe do a pass 2 in the future.

Are the floors polygonalized, too? Would that make room-based lighting exclusion easier to do? (Is that even relevant in keeping one room bright and one room dark?)

Wow the steam version sure has come a long damn way, I'm super impressed. Its come so far from the first build I remember playing ages ago now. My hype has successfully been rekindled.

Guys, I wanted to get the latest version but I forgot my password and can't get it back. Help?

[QUOTE=GmanIsJoker;42395379]Guys, I wanted to get the latest version but I forgot my password and can't get it back. Help?[/QUOTE] Ask them to give you a new password via email, send proof of purchase.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;42397584]Ask them to give you a new password via email, send proof of purchase.[/QUOTE] I can't find anything, that's the problem. ;_;

-snip- wrong thread :)

[QUOTE=GmanIsJoker;42395379]Guys, I wanted to get the latest version but I forgot my password and can't get it back. Help?[/QUOTE] Is your password not potentially saved in your old game files?

[QUOTE=Tureis;42413530]Is your password not potentially saved in your old game files?[/QUOTE] Where might that be? EDIT: -snip- EDIT: I'm still fucked. Neither username nor email is to be found.

I started playing and I horded a lot. I thought I was doing quite well untill a female zombie bit my groin and I zombified.

[QUOTE=GmanIsJoker;42421484]Where might that be? I'm still fucked. Neither username nor email is to be found.[/QUOTE] If you paid for the game back in the PayPal / Google Checkout days, is it likely you did as we requested and didn't tick the anonymous email tick box? If so, if you send an email to [email]accounts@projectzomboid.com[/email] explaining, and including the email address you likely used, we can see if we can find you in the system. If you were anonymous then it's going to be really rather awkward, however it's still possible we'd be able to find you by name or something. In other words, send an email and include as much information to find you by as possible and explain the problem (just in case it's not me that ends up doing it), and we'll see what we can do. You may need to give us a fair bit of time, though, since everything's a bit hectic here at the moment.

So why is this so dead at the moment ?

Everyone's playing State of Decay?

[url]http://projectzomboid.com/blog/2013/11/its-been-a-long-road/[/url] it's official november 8th, project zomboid gets released in early access section of steam

Is it worth buying off their website for £5 in case it goes for more on Steam, or will the price stay the same?

[QUOTE=Mr. Agree;42771378]Is it worth buying off their website for £5 in case it goes for more on Steam, or will the price stay the same?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]At that point, we'll be raising the price of the game to £9.99/$15.99. The game has remained at the same price since day one, and as we've said, not only is it important for us to help increase funding of development and look to expand going forward, but also it's unfair to those who bought in at the start to not be rewarded with a discounted price for their early support.[/QUOTE] [url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/92916900/1383601725[/url]

Glad to see this finally hitting Steam. I'll get back into it now!

I was pleasantly surprised to see this on the front page: [t]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/466/fxsp.png[/t] Hopefully this gives them some much needed exposure.

Apparently it hasn't really :( People like Dean Hall, Notch, Chet Faliszek etc are tweeting about it and spreading the word though :)