From the PC Gamer demonstration it looks like the biggest improvements are for the management/tactical side of things, which is arguably the focus of the game anyway
More of the same but better just like warband did, after all
Here it is if you missed it
[video=youtube;3P8AYtiaaFE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P8AYtiaaFE[/video]
The biggest problem with Mount & Blade is simply the AI navigation. They do things as expected: they fight, they stand in formations, etc. but the one thing they absolutely cannot do is navigate terrain. If there's a small pond, rather than run around it they'll trudge through it. Instead of running around a steep hill they'll try to climb up it
It especially becomes apparent in Blood & Gold, another game that uses the warband engine. There's maps that have massive cliffs with rivers at the bottom of them and in order to cross you have to take a bridge, but the AI doesn't use the bridges. They just charge in to the abyss, swim across the water and then try to climb up a 40 foot cliff face to get to their enemies. There's other levels where the there are multi-level structures and there's absolutely no way the AI will ever be capable of figuring that out in a million years
the AI seems somewhat intelligent in warband because the terrain is flat enough and the structures aren't overly complex so it seems completely fine, but in the bannerlord video you can see the AI getting pinched and stuck on all kinds of different things that they really shouldn't be. I know it's pre-alpha or whatever but I highly doubt this is going to change at all. it probably won't be a big deal in the end when castles get simplified (and I can just about guarantee you that they will) but it still really sucks that the AI looks like it's mostly just an afterthought when in essence that should be the core feature of your game, especially because it's strategy focused
I don't have much experience with the M&B engine, but AFAIK they use navmeshes, so implementing preferred AI pathing in the navmesh shouldn't really be overly complicated.
[QUOTE=69105;50531200]The biggest problem with Mount & Blade is simply the AI navigation. They do things as expected: they fight, they stand in formations, etc. but the one thing they absolutely cannot do is navigate terrain. If there's a small pond, rather than run around it they'll trudge through it. Instead of running around a steep hill they'll try to climb up it
It especially becomes apparent in Blood & Gold, another game that uses the warband engine. There's maps that have massive cliffs with rivers at the bottom of them and in order to cross you have to take a bridge, but the AI doesn't use the bridges. They just charge in to the abyss, swim across the water and then try to climb up a 40 foot cliff face to get to their enemies. There's other levels where the there are multi-level structures and there's absolutely no way the AI will ever be capable of figuring that out in a million years
the AI seems somewhat intelligent in warband because the terrain is flat enough and the structures aren't overly complex so it seems completely fine, but in the bannerlord video you can see the AI getting pinched and stuck on all kinds of different things that they really shouldn't be. I know it's pre-alpha or whatever but I highly doubt this is going to change at all. it probably won't be a big deal in the end when castles get simplified (and I can just about guarantee you that they will) but it still really sucks that the AI looks like it's mostly just an afterthought when in essence that should be the core feature of your game, especially because it's strategy focused[/QUOTE]
That's also kind of the devs being lazy as shit. Admittedly, if we're talking about the randomly generated battle maps, you're pretty much shit out of luck. The AI is brain dead when left to itself. But the dev created maps like that one that has a bridge in it should have AI paths built into it by them. Same way when you do a siege in Warband, the AI knows to run up the ladder or ramp.
Yeah that's a larger problem with a janky custom made map than the AI. As far as I know the generated maps don't have any navigation info (because honestly 99% of the time they don't need it). The biggest stumbling point of the AI movement is when they all try to pile through a doorway or across a narrow bridge at once, because they have no knowledge of each others presence. They still manage to perfectly navigate a castle most of the time as long as there isn't traffic.
They should add a button to shout "Make way for the Vassal/Lord/commander/whatever" that will cause your men to disperse in front of the direction your facing. It would allow you to not get stuck and crammed into a room or the front lines by your own men who are blindly walking forwards into you like a brick wall.
Would be kind of immersion breaking having to shout make way for the lord constantly at a door way but it might help also with unblocking areas your men are all trying to squeeze through that they simply all cannot fit through at once. Will allow you to manually create a better flow.
I imagine the new push physics will make this a lot better too.
The most important parts of sieges i want to see fixed are battle level decisions. Like, in warband i'd just get tons of archers, sit outside the wall, and have them kill the entire contents of the castle sending arrows through conveient head slots without needing to have a troop step on the ladder until the end. Also, you can just sit back and the AI will waste all their arrows on your shields pointlessly, i think defenders should have infinite ammo or something like arrow buckets on the walls for archers to grab from, it would make way more sense.
A friend of mine says he saw a dev interview with some gameplay footage on Twitch today of Bannerlord. Anyone have a link to it?
[QUOTE=Mattk50;50535370]The most important parts of sieges i want to see fixed are battle level decisions. Like, in warband i'd just get tons of archers, sit outside the wall, and have them kill the entire contents of the castle sending arrows through conveient head slots without needing to have a troop step on the ladder until the end. Also, you can just sit back and the AI will waste all their arrows on your shields pointlessly, i think defenders should have infinite ammo or something like arrow buckets on the walls for archers to grab from, it would make way more sense.[/QUOTE]
yeah, defending an entire town with its own industry and probably fletchers and running out of arrows is really silly. there was a mod that added a town and castle upgrade that automatically replenished defender's arrows but I can't recall what it was. wish it was included in mbtweaks.
The one I know did that was Nova Aetis, a mod taking place something like 100 years after base Warband, it also had a lot of cool army orders with the numpad, it's night battles were almost impossible because it was so dark though.
[URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=498482336&searchtext="]Workshop link[/URL]
[QUOTE=Mattk50;50535370]The most important parts of sieges i want to see fixed are battle level decisions. Like, in warband i'd just get tons of archers, sit outside the wall, and have them kill the entire contents of the castle sending arrows through conveient head slots without needing to have a troop step on the ladder until the end. Also, you can just sit back and the AI will waste all their arrows on your shields pointlessly, i think defenders should have infinite ammo or something like arrow buckets on the walls for archers to grab from, it would make way more sense.[/QUOTE]
I think defenders do have infinite ammo, or it gets refreshed every few minutes. I used to just sit outside a castle with rhodoks and have then camp behind their board shields until the defenders ran out but they would always just keep firing
[QUOTE=Pelf;50538371]I think defenders do have infinite ammo, or it gets refreshed every few minutes. I used to just sit outside a castle with rhodoks and have then camp behind their board shields until the defenders ran out but they would always just keep firing[/QUOTE]
No infinite ammo in native.
Here's just hoping that kicking is more useful
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50538405]Here's just hoping that kicking is more useful[/QUOTE]That kick looked a lot stronger in the video
[QUOTE=Ryo Ohki;50528681]Have either of you actually tried it for more than 5 minutes? Because I have, and I've just about conquered half the map currently
"Train peasants" is one of the hardest fights in the game if you have high training and have to go against 2 or 3 peasants, and you have to do that several times
There's a fine line between "kill everything by yourself" and "get mobbed and stunlocked as soon as you get in a skirmish"
On high difficulties even the shittiest of units have inhuman reflexes and the AI completely ignores teammate collisions when it comes to swinging weapons, meaning they can literally hit you through other enemies whereas your swings get blocked by teammates.
Alternatively you can just kite and kill units by the dozens using a bow and they're likely to just ignore you and keep going towards the nearest enemy. So long as you keep moving sideways archers will never hit you.
So no, it's not a matter of being unable to kill everyone single handedly, the melee AI is just shit and not in the slightest fun or fair to fight against[/QUOTE]
I kinda agree with this.
Whenever there's like, a small AI blob walking up to you, regardless of the weapon proficiency, they can easily stunlock you to death. I think this is probably because there's no dodge mechanic or whatever in place(not the arcadey kind, just a normal dodge would be fine), and the fact that AI weapons phase through their allies to somehow hit you. And character movespeed is way too slow. You should at least be able to run or something when you're completely devoid of heavy armor.
And the game makes your character flinch too much. AI bumping into you makes you flinch. Any kind of hit makes you flinch, regardless of your armor. A horse walking verrrrrrrry slowly is enough to make you flinch.
Whenever two or more people walk up to you, for some reason they actually make you flinch? By just walking up to you. Without attacking. Or are they actually kicking or something?
I've never had any "fun" fights with AI. It's either me stomping them by funneling them into a narrow walkway and spamming attack musou style with my expensive weapons and armor, or me abusing mounted mechanics to pick them off one by one. When I actually fight WITH my army and not travel around the battlefield abusing mounted mechanics, I always find myself being chased by small blobs of enemies because that's just how the AI works.
I either get lucky and poke them one by one or get stunlocked. I don't mind losing to a blob, it's just that the way it works isn't really fun. You don't really get to fight at all.
I do bring a small contingent of elite bodyguards with me on the "Follow me" command but the AI almost always focuses down the player before anyone else.
[QUOTE=Rainboo;50543217]
And the game makes your character flinch too much. AI bumping into you makes you flinch. Any kind of hit makes you flinch, regardless of your armor. A horse walking verrrrrrrry slowly is enough to make you flinch.
Whenever two or more people walk up to you, for some reason they actually make you flinch? By just walking up to you. Without attacking. Or are they actually kicking or something?
[/QUOTE]
In regards to the flinching I think there's a value in module.ini that you can easily change for each mod which sets how much damage is enough to make a character flinch. By default in native it's 3 damage for singleplayer and only 1 damage for multiplayer.
As for the flinching I don't think you flinch from people bumping into you unless you're using a ranged weapon. People walking into you makes you flinch if you're drawing a bow to make it impossible to just wait for someone practically hugging you to lower his shield to attack and then headshot him.
edit: really though they should make dead units' ragdolls stop attacks and maybe make ai watch out for friendly fire, ai hitting friendly ai units already stops their attacks but they can score hits through other dying bots. The blobbing also looks pretty stupid so maybe the ai should spread out a little more which would actually make them harder to fight for the right reasons.
[QUOTE=Falchion;50543252]In regards to the flinching I think there's a value in module.ini that you can easily change for each mod which sets how much damage is enough to make a character flinch. By default in native it's 3 damage for singleplayer and only 1 damage for multiplayer.
As for the flinching I don't think you flinch from people bumping into you unless you're using a ranged weapon. People walking into you makes you flinch if you're drawing a bow to make it impossible to just wait for someone practically hugging you to lower his shield to attack and then headshot him.
edit: really though they should make dead units' ragdolls stop attacks and maybe make ai watch out for friendly fire, ai hitting friendly ai units already stops their attacks but they can score hits through other dying bots. The blobbing also looks pretty stupid so maybe the ai should spread out a little more which would actually make them harder to fight for the right reasons.[/QUOTE]
Taleworlds have already stated that they have made the new AI try to surround enemies rather than queuing or blobbing.
Various mods like 1257 and Viking conquest make the AI hold formations and there's much less blobbing as long as they don't end up breaking formation, which results in the old behaviour. They'll only do that if they're ordered to or the leader on one side dies though.
Playing around with the Perisno-mod I found something that could use tweaking in M&B:
Being a nobody, travelling alone and a group of 50 decide that it's important for them to jab all their swords into you.
The game could use a check of some hostile mobs not giving a hoot about a nobody when they are large enough of a group.
Although it might be more of a problem with Perisno, as it's one of those kind of mods that has mainly large parties of high- to mid-tier troops roaming the land.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvax0hKDAmw[/media]
I am SO GOOD at this game
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;50528108]Mount and Blade isn't a Musou game.
If you want your "kill everything in this area by yourself" fill, go buy a Warriors game dude.
Or hell, play the Blood and Steel mod.
Or play blood and steel and do what the user below suggested. That's the true musou experience.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't really call it a true test of difficulty or skill. It's more everyone gangs up on you and noclips into each other swinging until you die. It doesn't really work well, since if everyone was actually attacking someone with swords etc, they'd need a certain amount of space to actually attack you. Otherwise they'd be hitting each other more than you.
[QUOTE=Ghost101;50558270]I wouldn't really call it a true test of difficulty or skill. It's more everyone gangs up on you and noclips into each other swinging until you die. It doesn't really work well, since if everyone was actually attacking someone with swords etc, they'd need a certain amount of space to actually attack you. Otherwise they'd be hitting each other more than you.[/QUOTE]
My post that you quoted has nothing to do with whether taking on hordes of enemies in M&B is a test of skill or not.
You might have quoted the wrong post :v:
So is Floris still the go-to for expanding and improving the base game without any major changes?
How's A Clash of Kings? Thinking of getting back into Warband again.
It's really overwhelming
It's huge and a lot of cool stuff to explore
If you want a good game of thrones mod, then you'll absolutely want a clash of kings.
Sounds good, gonna give it a shot. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Ray551;50603982]How's A Clash of Kings? Thinking of getting back into Warband again.[/QUOTE]
Yes, from what I've heard, ACOK is good.
Playing Clash of Kings makes me fanboy. When I made my character, the very first lord I saw on the map just happened to be Davos and I freaked out.
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Mount and Blade Series V2: Chamber n' Sidestep
