Judging by people at Sonic Retro who got their hands on Mania, Green Hill Zone isn't a 1:1 either. Sure, the base layout is there, but there's more of a lower route now, and the level began changing itself up significantly as you got deeper into the act until leading to that underground-y place with the new mid-boss. So the classic zones may definitely have portions directly from their original level layouts, but they'll be changing up a bit too.
[QUOTE=The Civ;50774569]Dear lord, It's easy to forget how different Sonic 1 is from the later games, even Sonic 2.
Decided to play it and for some reason I just got my ass handed to me, and I'm usually pretty good with the classic Sonic games.
It might just be because honestly, the game isn't that fast. Or, at least it doesn't let you be.
Sonic 2, CD, and 3 all were pretty good about letting you go really fast throughout the game, sans maybe a stage or two, but almost every level in Sonic 1 seems to have something that'll fuck you over hard if you don't slow yourself down and be more cautious instead of reacting to things on the fly like in later games.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I can agree with that. Especially the special stages and labyrinth zone's boss.
For the former, it's actually effectively a puzzle where you have to strategize jumps and tapping the Up and Down spheres (which speed up and slow down the rotation, respectively) and the R spheres (which reverse the rotation direction) to place yourself in a position that prevents you from hitting a level-ender instead of getting the chaos emerald.
It also doesn't help that the game basically attempts to intimidate you by giving the hardest special zone [i]first[/i]. with the 6th one being the easiest and basically all of the others beyond the 2nd one being a cakewalk if you play patiently (although luck can make the 3rd one end up going fast enough that you accidentally fling yourself into a level end gate).
The Labyrinth Zone boss ends up disproportionately tediously hard for players unaware of how to traverse it because they not only didn't give you ANY rings beyond the last check point (and it's a one-way path), but they placed the shield CRT in such a location that if you purposely try to kill all of the enemies instead of jumping up as fast as possible up the "stairs", the water will end up submersing Sonic early by the time after you hit the CRT and finally start going up, with the shield, water and gauntlet all causing inconsistent slowdown while active, throwing off player perceptions and ending up causing them to be hit in such a way that you fall far enough down that the plausibility of surviving drowning is low, basically necessitating that you do a no-hit run of the most tedious boss in any traditional Sonic game.
Once you know the pattern, it's actually pretty straightforward, but what the hell were they thinking anyway with that? Easily ended 90%+ of kids playthroughs just because of the disproportionate difficulty of that.
I've played Sonic 1 so many times and after all these years I had no idea that's what the Up and Down blocks did in special stages
The up and down blocks make the stage rotate faster or slower like speed up or slow down
I just figured out of all the crazy shit going on in there some blocks that said "up" or "down" were put there to mock me for trying to deal with the gravity
Never was a fan of how trial and error the Special Stages are (of varying levels) in almost all of the games.
1 and 3&K's puzzle elements were a pretty nice way of mixing it up but they were still pretty iffy, and who else got sick of the half-pipe designs that became overused since 2?
I've honestly never gotten all the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 1, and I've only done it once in Sonic 2.
I fucking love the older games but god damn, those special stages were always loaded with bullshit.
[QUOTE=The Civ;50786547]I've honestly never gotten all the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic 1, and I've only done it once in Sonic 2.
I fucking love the older games but god damn, those special stages were always loaded with bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Sonic 3&k had the most fair and easy stages, some of the super emeralds were kinda bullshit tho.
I think from hardest-to-easiest Special Stage in the Genesis era were:
1. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
2. Sonic the Hedgehog
3. Sonic CD
4. Sonic 3 & Knuckles
imo Sonic 2's are the hardest thanks to Tails being Tails.
Sonic 1's are definitely harder than 3's, but once you understand how all the properties work, it can be pretty systematic and imo more interesting than those of the later games.
Most of the bullshit with Sonic 1's special stages come from not realizing that the Up spheres speed up the stage and at the higher speeds, you start getting flung around with little control over yourself unless you purposely wedge yourself into a tunnel and wait until the wall you are clinging to is nearly above you before jumping.
It also helps that you have significantly more opportunities to get into the special stages in later games than in Sonic 1, where you need a minimum of 50 rings and can only pull it off at the end of a stage that has no bosses.
I feel that the easiest was CD's (again 2011 port, not Original / Gems). The fear of running into a single red sphere ending it there, and the speed accelerating ever so fast overtime in 3&K's made me [I]really[/I] anxious.
The spin-offs also had some interesting takes on the Special Stages; for example, Triple Trouble (the mini-boss part, not the maze shit from Chaos):
[video=youtube;VOjk6AqbEEE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOjk6AqbEEE[/video]
[sp]Fang should really return but we already have enough problems as it is with a lot of characters getting sidelined for just Sonic, Tails, and Eggman.[/sp]
[QUOTE=The Duke;50787077]imo Sonic 2's are the hardest thanks to Tails being Tails.
Sonic 1's are definitely harder than 3's, but once you understand how all the properties work, it can be pretty systematic and imo more interesting than those of the later games.
Most of the bullshit with Sonic 1's special stages come from not realizing that the Up spheres speed up the stage and at the higher speeds, you start getting flung around with little control over yourself unless you purposely wedge yourself into a tunnel and wait until the wall you are clinging to is nearly above you before jumping.
It also helps that you have significantly more opportunities to get into the special stages in later games than in Sonic 1, where you need a minimum of 50 rings and can only pull it off at the end of a stage that has no bosses.[/QUOTE]
Sonic 2 might be hardest because you can go full Super Sonic on Emerald Hill Zone Act 2 (back in the days).
[video=youtube;UcWst_voAVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcWst_voAVQ[/video]
This is a really cool Sonic hack.
Sonic has always been influenced by what's hip, and social justice is white hot right now. Could it be the time for the series female characters to be reworked and given better prominence?
[QUOTE=artDecor;50790029]Sonic has always been influenced by what's hip, and social justice is white hot right now. Could it be the time for the series female characters to be reworked and given better prominence?[/QUOTE]
no? I'd prefer it if they didn't go anywhere near SJW garbage.
:snip:
-snip-
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;50790222][URL="http://66.media.tumblr.com/8d23e983a464ae0beb4c35340d497da8/tumblr_n9mkqhSPeV1sphd1fo1_500.jpg"]BRB tried doing the[/URL] [URL="http://www.siliconera.com/2014/06/03/creating-sonic-boom-rise-lyric-big-red-button/"]same shit with Boom!Amy[/URL] and look where that ended up (RoL + its overall writing, and leaking into the show with her losing her open crush with Sonic).[/QUOTE]
Normally I wouldn't want to continue a topic like this, but let's be honest, this isn't such a bad thing. Sure, they overdid it at times with her being the smartest of the group early on, but she eventually became a bit obsessive about stupid things and crazy in her own right (like being a terrible psychiatrist). And i'd actually like the main series to tone down the crush and start focusing on her as a character more, because after Adventure 2, her obsession with Sonic [i]became her main, defining trait[/i] to the point of being a detriment. In my opinion at least. Only certain games like Battle showed more than that, and her obsession was still half of her character in a nutshell.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;50790366]And i'd actually like the main series to tone down the crush and start focusing on her as a character more, because after Adventure 2, her obsession with Sonic [i]became her main, defining trait[/i] to the point of being a detriment. In my opinion at least. Only certain games like Battle showed more than that, and her obsession was still half of her character in a nutshell.[/QUOTE]
All in due part to character derailment and flanderization.
Dialing back to her Adventure 1 self while diving further into her other weird quirks (i.e: interest in the mystical like fortune telling and dowsing) would be a great move and a medal for whomever the writer would be.
Finally got back to playing Sonic CD and Metallic Madness 3 makes me want to scream.
[QUOTE=artDecor;50790029][I][B]Sonic has always been influenced by what's hip[/B][/I], and social justice is white hot right now. Could it be the time for the series female characters to be reworked and given better prominence?[/QUOTE]
Has it? Because, personally, I've always thought Sonic's idea of what's cool hasn't changed all that much since the 90s.
[QUOTE=Rufia;50791283]Has it? Because, personally, I've always thought Sonic's idea of what's cool hasn't changed all that much since the 90s.[/QUOTE]
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwNdD1qlkME[/media]
Either you experiment until you find a characterization that works for Sonic more consistently, or you go back to the drawing board and reinvent him for a modern audience. Again.
And look how well that worked out the past several times.
It's 2016 yet some people still haven't realized that Sonic was [B]never[/B] actually meant to have "totally radical" as a facet of his character, just a marketing ploy by SoA?
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;50791481]It's 2016 yet some people still haven't realized that Sonic was [B]never[/B] actually meant to have "totally radical" as a facet of his character, just a marketing ploy by SoA?[/QUOTE]
Also misconceptions on speed- it was always about momentum more than speed, yet I know people who've gone "Sonic is too slow, those commercials made him go ZOOMZOOMZOOM" (said people never touched a genesis or classic sonic games, by the by).
[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50791526]Also misconceptions on speed- it was always about momentum more than speed, yet I know people who've gone "Sonic is too slow, those commercials made him go ZOOMZOOMZOOM" (said people never touched a genesis or classic sonic games, by the by).[/QUOTE]
There's so many differing opinions, so many 'generations' of fans for Sonic, so many different outlets that it's impossible to mention something without causing a debate. I've seen people shitting on the Boost games for the boost being too easy a way to go fast, or becoming "hold B to win" despite the fact that if you actually did that, you'd either run out of boost for not using it properly or careen straight into a pit or obstacle and fuck up. Or that the Adventure games were the best things ever, fuck the rest of the series. Or the most prevalent opinion that the Classic games got everything right and that the rest of the series can go fuck itself.
It's a clusterfuck filled with misconceptions and stupidity.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;50791548]There's so many differing opinions, so many 'generations' of fans for Sonic, so many different outlets that it's impossible to mention something without causing a debate. I've seen people shitting on the Boost games for the boost being too easy a way to go fast, or becoming "hold B to win" despite the fact that if you actually did that, you'd either run out of boost for not using it properly or careen straight into a pit or obstacle and fuck up. Or that the Adventure games were the best things ever, fuck the rest of the series. Or the most prevalent opinion that the Classic games got everything right and that the rest of the series can go fuck itself.
It's a clusterfuck filled with misconceptions and stupidity.[/QUOTE]
Consistent direction is the absolute only way you can get out of a situation like this.
Too bad SoA cannot for the life of them cooperate effectively with SoJ and both get their shit together (especially SoA), hopefully that changes.
[video]https://youtu.be/oSB_APVzwyY[/video]
[QUOTE=The Civ;50791243]Finally got back to playing Sonic CD and Metallic Madness 3 makes me want to scream.[/QUOTE]
Never found it difficult since I take the top route, and the boss is stupid easy if you abuse invisible-frame from getting hit.
[QUOTE=The Civ;50791243]Finally got back to playing Sonic CD and Metallic Madness 3 makes me want to scream.[/QUOTE]
Hey at least you aren't at WACKY WORKBENCH.
[QUOTE=Rummy.SM;50795747]Hey at least you aren't at WACKY WORKBENCH.[/QUOTE]
Wacky Workbench is like the epitome of level design "Fuck you"
Wacky Workbench was indeed an absolute nauseous clusterfuck due to the bouncy floor gimmick that always forced you to go the top route.
In other news: the Shadow comic has been released and translated [URL="http://gayhedgehogs.tumblr.com/post/148145881327/original-the-shadow-comic-probably-my-favorite"]by you know who.[/URL]
[IMG]http://67.media.tumblr.com/731e7e4d9a30e9297ecf9e9d2f5e6f31/tumblr_ob2rp0dxWU1ueytayo1_1280.png[/IMG]
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Sonic General Discussion Thread v1
