[QUOTE=Sift;52899501]A argument for what? Like, the game *is* bad so I'm not sure what situation would apply where it's not true.
Mentioned before but it's okay to enjoy a bad game, devote a lot of time to it and really love it- but the objective quality of the game as a whole won't really change. Just a personal preference/bias.
I 100% the game, speedran a few levels for fun and got my money for it but like, my tune isn't changing because it's easy to acknowledge the things held together with ducktape with pieces falling off.
This ain't a knock against you or anyone else. Just kinda curious as to what you mean as people going "the game is bad" is hardly a witch hunt.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I did enjoy my time with Sonic Forces (aside from a lot of meta aspects about Sonic) but there is no denying Sonic Forces is incredibly flawed and is easily below average.
Anyone who had mild enjoyment or points out any merit is an automatic fanboy label just knocks out any discussion surrounding the game. It creates bandwagon effect and gives way to many red herring fallacies.
Won't deny that Sonic Forces is disappointing tho.
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52899655]Anyone who had mild enjoyment or points out any merit is an automatic fanboy label just knocks out any discussion surrounding the game.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how you could be making an argument against subjective enjoyment of the game unless, say, the person who enjoyed the game was not making very compelling arguments for its merits.
[QUOTE=Intermission;52899721]I don't understand how you could be making an argument against subjective enjoyment of the game unless, say, the person who enjoyed the game was not making very compelling arguments for its merits.[/QUOTE]
ad hominem
you got to be a rabid fanboy to defend something as trash as this game. Face it, the game is crap, you are only trying to salvage whatever scrap this game spoon-fed you.
This fanbase is the worst. Stop giving Sonic Team the benefit of the doubt.
[I]this comment has 20 upvotes[/I]
Don't forget the magic words: [I]"[/I][franchise][I] fans are so defensive"[/I].
well I don't know about anyone else, but I had fun with the game.
I wouldn't say it's as good as mania, but it's still good enough that I'd like to see more, just with a more refined engine so I don't have to worry about flying off the edge of the highway in boost mode.
To be fair, the Sonic fanbase reeeally doesn't like hearing that the games aren't too hot :v:.
Also I can kinda understand the Sonic Team thing. They've flubbed how many games now? And each time something like Forces happens there's little to no push back. Just (in a lot of cases) "At least Sonic Team tried to make a good game. They were forced to produce below par stuff. Can't wait for the next game from them!"
I can easily understand if people want to take that angle because its been 20-ish years of mostly mediocrity. Some people just want a shakeup and want people who know what they're doing handling the franchise. They don't want excuses anymore or "well maybe next time will be good."
Though I'm sure there's a handful of troll comments so eh :v:
I think Sonic Unleashed would be a pretty decent game if it was released on modern console / pc. The werehog would more tolerable at frame rates above 12.
[editline]17th November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sift;52900159]To be fair, the Sonic fanbase reeeally doesn't like hearing that the games aren't too hot :v:.
Also I can kinda understand the Sonic Team thing. They've flubbed how many games now? And each time something like Forces happens there's little to no push back. Just (in a lot of cases) "At least Sonic Team tried to make a good game. They were forced to produce below par stuff. Can't wait for the next game from them!"
I can easily understand if people want to take that angle because its been 20-ish years of mostly mediocrity. Some people just want a shakeup and want people who know what they're doing handling the franchise. They don't want excuses anymore or "well maybe next time will be good."
Though I'm sure there's a handful of troll comments so eh :v:[/QUOTE]
They have to get rid of all the old farts and get some young blood in the mix. I truly believe Iizuka needs to step down or be let go; he's held the games back long enough.
People were already modding Generations stages as a curiosity into Unleashed, I imagine modders getting their hands on a PC Unleashed would be able to fix some issues and improve the Werehog - probably even remove the stupid Sun/Moon Medals which serve for absolutely nothing more than padding.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52900375]People were already modding Generations stages as a curiosity into Unleashed, I imagine modders getting their hands on a PC Unleashed would be able to fix some issues and improve the Werehog - probably even remove the stupid Sun/Moon Medals which serve for absolutely nothing more than padding.[/QUOTE]
Release that shit for $20 and they got my money, easy.
Metropolitan Highway has an unused pathway with auto-run scripting, dash pads and rings just sitting there. The fuck Sega.
[video=youtube;IMtgKUBvChU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMtgKUBvChU[/video]
Probably an unused remnant from the fact that the game is kinda unfinished and rushed.
[QUOTE=The Civ;52905915]Metropolitan Highway has an unused pathway with auto-run scripting, dash pads and rings just sitting there. The fuck Sega.
[video=youtube;IMtgKUBvChU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMtgKUBvChU[/video][/QUOTE]
I guess we won't find out until a level editor comes out.
[editline]19th November 2017[/editline]
There are plenty of unused areas in prior games. I recall there being inaccessible enemies in Empire City. One speedrunning manages to even get them in an all enemies speedrun.
I posted the video over on Sonic Retro's forums, so hopefully we can get some answers soon
[QUOTE=Glaber;52906928]I posted the video over on Sonic Retro's forums, so hopefully we can get some answers soon[/QUOTE]
maybe tweet the level designer
[QUOTE=The Civ;52905915]Metropolitan Highway has an unused pathway with auto-run scripting, dash pads and rings just sitting there. The fuck Sega.
[video=youtube;IMtgKUBvChU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMtgKUBvChU[/video][/QUOTE]
It's hilarious to see Sonic try to walk backwards and then just have him jolt in the other direction for seemingly no reason. Why don't they actually try making a game that doesn't have or require this?
[QUOTE=Intermission;52907118]It's hilarious to see Sonic try to walk backwards and then just have him jolt in the other direction for seemingly no reason. Why don't they actually try making a game that doesn't have or require this?[/QUOTE]
It makes me wonder whether making a modern Sonic game with the boost gameplay style would even be possible or practical without the movement scripting.
Even the most basic turns seem to require scripting on the map level to actually make Sonic follow them. When you start thinking about it, it makes you realize how little control you actually have over Sonic.
Had a passing thought.
Was thinking about Tails roll in Forces and well, his only role in the story is to look for Modern Sonic and data gathering.
Why not replace Classic Sonic with Tails? Like Classic Sonic never shows up and it's just Tails in the levels instead with his flying? It seems like it would be such a obvious and easy rewrite.
Chaos shows up and goes for him. Tails bops him instead of pissing himself like a loser and decides that [ghost town] isn't safe if Eggman's forces are around and just bails. Then he learns of Sonics survival and it's him hunting him down and whatnot.
Found this on reddit.
[QUOTE]
A friend of mine managed to read a draft of the script for the upcoming Sonic movie being made by Paramount (don't want to go into too much detail about how so I don't get him into trouble), thought you guys might be interested in some of the details.
Setting and characters:
The writers apparently looked back through all the various Sonic stories from the games in the early stages, ended up using some of the elements from Sonic Adventure and the classic games.
The movie takes place on South Island, which is mentioned as an isolated island nation in the script.
The nation's capital is Station Square, a large city home to a large human population.
Animal-people (they're not really named in the script) like Sonic live in the island's wilderness in small villages.
The main characters are Sonic, Tails, Amy, and Dr. Eggman.
Sonic is pretty much the same from the games, he's described as a "free spirit" who's always on the move.
Tails is said to accompany Sonic on a lot of his adventures and is kind of Sonic's support, provides him with a lot of gadgets throughout the movie and has a lab in Green Hill.
Amy is a close friend to Sonic and his number-one fan, she's not as obsessed with him as she is in the games, but she still has a crush on him and always wants to accompany him on his adventures. She ends up teaming up with him and Tails to take on Eggman, who kidnaps her at one point to use as leverage against Sonic.
Dr. Eggman is the head of a large manufacturing company that owns much of the industry on South Island. His company's headquarters is Metropolis, a giant facility the size of a city. Eggman's workforce is made up mostly of robots, which also double as his personal army.
Another major character for part of the film is Grant, a journalist from the mainland (I don't know if it's explicitly mentioned where he's from, but from what I've been told he's supposed to be from America or some fake Sonic version of America), who is on South Island investigating the island's ruins as part of a story. He ends up getting caught up in the battle between Sonic and Eggman and becomes an ally to Sonic.
Rouge appears in the film, she runs a casino in the city that's owned by Eggman. She starts out as kind of a villain, but turns out to be working for the Sonic version of the UN or something to spy on Eggman. Apparently there's a fair amount of innuendo in some of the scenes with her, which is kind of weird in my opinion (but not unexpected).
Rouge's partner is Madonna, a lounge singer at the casino who is also a spy, she's one of the other principal live-action characters. I'm assuming she's based off of that one scrapped girlfriend of Sonic's, don't know if there's any connection beyond the name, though.
Chaos appears as one of the film's main antagonists. He's kind of like some giant ancient god who's imprisoned in some sunken city off the coast of the island, Eggman ends up freeing him in the second half of the movie and he floods the city. He only appears as a giant monster like the final boss of Adventure.
Orbot shows up as Eggman's personal assistant, he's not as quippy as he is in the games and doesn't play a very large role.
Knuckles doesn't appear in the movie, but there's a few references to an "Echidna civilization" that used to live on the island, apparently he might appear in a planned sequel.
Plot:
Note: I mostly copied this from my friend's account of the story, apparently he left out some stuff so this might not be 100% accurate
The movie starts with Grant arriving in Station Square, and there's a bit of exposition about Eggman and the animal-people, as well as South Island being home to an ancient civilization in the past. Grant is researching the civilization, specifically the legend of the Chaos Emeralds, seven gems that are said to bestow the user with ultimate power.
Over in Green Hill, Sonic is laying around, when Tails tells him that some of the villagers from the nearby town are getting sick. Sonic finds out it's due to pollution from Eggman's new Chemical Plant, and goes to try and shut down the pollution, running into Eggman's robots searching the island on the way.
It's revealed Eggman is searching for the Chaos Emeralds, and he's shown referencing ancient manuscripts. Eggman already has three of the emeralds, and expresses a desire to rule the world. Sonic and Tails fight one of Eggman's giant robots and shut down the plant, causing Eggman to take notice of them. Amy shows up, and convinces them to take her with them.
Over in the city, Grant sets off to explore some nearby ruins, and ends up finding one of the Chaos Emeralds. Eggman's robots show up and start attacking him, and Grant ends up getting framed by Eggman and gets his face plastered all over the city.
Grant goes into hiding, and meets up with Sonic and friends, who let them tag along with him to figure out what Eggman's up to. Sonic heads into the city, and investigates around a bit. There's a bit of him, Tails, and Amy just experiencing the city life, and Sonic discovers his love of chili dogs.
Eventually they meet up with an archeologist Grant was talking with earlier in the film, who tells them more about the Chaos Emeralds and points them towards the Labyrinth, a big maze underneath South Island that was built by the ancient civilization. He also mentions Chaos, an ancient god worshipped by the Echidnas that ended up destroying their civilization. The Echidnas sealed Chaos away and hid the Chaos Emeralds throughout the island so that he could never be freed, as the Chaos Emeralds also serve as the key to his prison.
Sonic also ends up going to the city's nightlife district. Eggman is supposed to be at Rouge's casino, but isn't there. Sonic meets Rouge, she flirts with him a bit as he tries to get info out of her, Madonna is introduced but doesn't get much dialogue or anything.
The three end up heading back to where Grant is and set off towards the labyrinth, where Eggman's robots have already begun to search for the Emeralds. Sonic ends up finding two of the Emeralds in the maze.
Next, they head to Eggman's oil rig, which is serving as a temporary diving platform for his robots, who unearth one of the Emeralds underwater. Sonic and friends manage to steal the Emerald, but Amy gets captured by Eggman, who demands Sonic hand over his Emeralds in exchange for her life, and to meet him at Metropolis in one day.
Sonic, Tails, and Grant try to come up with a solution, but can't. Sonic goes back to the casino (there's a bit kind of reminiscent of the casino game levels from the game here) and talks with Rouge, who seems to know more than she lets on. Madonna ends up following Sonic as he leaves the casino.
Sonic, Tails, and Grant all climb in the Tornado and fly out to Metropolis planning to hand over the Emeralds in exchange for Amy. Sonic has no intention of giving them to Eggman, and plans to rush in and bust Amy out of Metropolis' prison, but Eggman confronts him in his hover pod and nearly kills him. Tails and Grant arrive just in time, managing to rescue Amy, but Eggman steals the Chaos Emeralds and locks them all up.
Madonna shows up and busts Sonic and friends out, and it's revealed she's a spy, as is Rouge. Rouge tells them over Madonna's communicator that they have the last Emerald in their possession, but Eggman has cracked the signal and overhears this, saying he knew Rouge was a spy all along. Eggman's robots steal the Emerald from the military, and Eggman heads to the sunken underwater city.
Sonic and friends are joined by Madonna and Rouge, who follow Eggman to the ruins, where he confronts them with a giant mech. There's a pretty long fight scene, and after Eggman goes down, he flees to the undersea prison where Chaos is kept, using the Emeralds to free him. Eggman plans to control Chaos so he can use the monster to aid in his world conquest, but Chaos proves too much for him, and Eggman seemingly dies.
Chaos ends up running rampant on the city, and Sonic and friends team up to stop the monster. Tails sacrifices himself (but he's later shown to have survived and is perfectly fine), and Sonic uses the Emeralds to transform into Super Sonic and defeats Chaos, saving the day and restoring peace to South Island. Grant clears his name after Eggman is revealed to be a criminal, and gets a prize for his story on the events.
The movie has a post-credits stinger with Eggman in another base, constructing some giant machine. He's seen looking at more ancient manuscripts, and then the movie pans over to a stasis tank, where we see Metal Sonic being constructed.
Other stuff:
All the animal characters are CGI, apparently there were discussions about maybe making Eggman at least partially CGI as well to make him look like the game version, don't know if that went anywhere though
Most of the minor supporting characters and background cast are live action.
There's more swearing than usual in a Sonic game ("hell" and "damn"), but nothing above PG-13, the lines in question only come from the humans as well.
Sonic Forces was apparently supposed to coincide with the movie's release, a few things were put in because they was featured in the movie, like Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Metropolis, and Sega apparently mandated Chaos be included due to his inclusion, which is why he doesn't really do anything in the game. The movie's production got delayed and Sega wanted them to get the game out before the holidays this year instead of waiting.
I'll see if I can get him to send me some pictures tomorrow as proof or something (or even bits from the script itself if I can), will update this post if he does.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Megalan;52908430]Found this on reddit.[/QUOTE]
Great fanfic. Points for the Madonna reference.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;52896291]Yeah, not liking a game is no reason to refund it, you go and try refund ANYTHING to any store because you don't like it and they'll just tell you to fuck off.[/QUOTE]
Wait is this post sarcastic or serious I honestly can't tell
"I was not satisfied" is a perfectly legitimate reason to get a refund. Stores advertise themselves "if you aren't satisfied, we'll refund you."
[QUOTE=Megalan;52908430]Found this on reddit.[/QUOTE]
I absolutely refuse to believe Knuckles wouldn't be in the movie, at all.
Even if he's barely a character he's almost always shoved in in the background for marketing points, because the main three are recognizable.
In general there's too much questionable shit in that post. Rouge being a Casino owner? Chaos is a being that lives in underwater ruins?
That would ruin the point of the allusion to a possible Echidna civilization anyways.
I'll believe this when I see hard proof.
[QUOTE=The Civ;52909194]I absolutely refuse to believe Knuckles wouldn't be in the movie, at all.
Even if he's barely a character he's almost always shoved in in the background for marketing points, because the main three are recognizable.
In general there's too much questionable shit in that post. Rouge being a Casino owner? Chaos is a being that lives in underwater ruins?
That would ruin the point of the allusion to a possible Echidna civilization anyways.
I'll believe this when I see hard proof.[/QUOTE]
You see, the problem here is that you're expecting the movie to be good. :v:
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;52909581]You see, the problem here is that you're expecting the movie to be good. :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm actually not at all. I'm expecting it to follow basic conventions established in the series though.
[QUOTE=The Civ;52909704]I'm actually not at all. I'm expecting it to follow basic conventions established in the series though.[/QUOTE]
A crappy movie done by fans couldn't even figure out how to do Sonic right, a Hollywood film would either woefully misinterpret the series or be a by-the-numbers sort of thing like Ratchet & Clank that some parent would dump their kids off at while they watch a bigger movie.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52909750]A crappy movie done by fans couldn't even figure out how to do Sonic right, a Hollywood film would either woefully misinterpret the series or be a by-the-numbers sort of thing like Ratchet & Clank that some parent would dump their kids off at while they watch a bigger movie.[/QUOTE]
Which one? The live action take, or Richard Kuta's? Hahahaha.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/mlFGupa.png[/IMG]
Also Sonic Adventure DX and a bunch of other Sega classics like NiGHTS and Jet Set Radio are on sale for cheap on Steam, don't forget to buy. (and also mod SADX so it's not crap)
I still don't get why motobugs are in forces. Like everything is cold and metallic and while I find it boring and uninteresting- it is a proper theme even if I don't agree with it.
Then you get to the waterslide levels or Metal Sonic/Infinite3 and they summon cartoon ladybugs and what? Why?
---
Unrelated but watching a speedrun of Lost World makes me feel like I wasn't playing the game "properly" and that it might actually be really good if you really bother to learn it. I beat it when it came out and was pretty down on it but seeing someone good makes me think "no, maybe I was the bad one...."
I also really like the colorful/simple lighting/models. Crabmeats, Motobugs, Coconuts... all the classic badniks look really really good and the Squash and Stretch on Sonic is really really nice. Take or leave the mediocre villain characters and the story will still be bad but the game itself looks ok.
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Sonic General Discussion Thread v1
