Sonic General Discussion Thread v1 - Games

how could anyone develop nostalgia for a level that's reintroduced every year

Don't think it is a matter of nostalgia anymore, but more of a "we're back to our roots which is what made sonic great!" identity.

[QUOTE=KnightRider25;52151517]Well if that's true, that's a big letdown. Look at Sonic Colors, fantastic game and no Green Hill zone look-a-like anywhere in the game.[/QUOTE] Adventure 2 and Unleashed also started with pretty unique first stage ideas (i.e: San Francisco, Greece).

Actually, I wonder what will modern Sonic / 3rd character's first stage would be? [sp]It better not be GHZ you lazy bums.[/sp]

[QUOTE=Noob4life;52152531]Actually, I wonder what will modern Sonic / 3rd character's first stage would be? [sp]It better not be GHZ you lazy bums.[/sp][/QUOTE] I was under the impression that it would be the destroyed city we've seen footage of. I think this is how the game will pan out: the first Classic Sonic level is GHZ and then the rest is all new.

[QUOTE=chipsnapper2;52153700]I was under the impression that it would be the destroyed city we've seen footage of. I think this is how the game will pan out: the first Classic Sonic level is GHZ and then the rest is all new.[/QUOTE] It's modern green hill zone I think. The environment around the city seems to imply this

I think my biggest problem with the Boost design style is that the levels often feel like explicit roads. I wish there was more opportunities to carve a unique path through the environment.

[QUOTE=artDecor;52155540]I think my biggest problem with the Boost design style is that the levels often feel like explicit roads. I wish there was more opportunities to carve a unique path through the environment.[/QUOTE] There are actually many 3D paths during typical boost gameplay. Not as much as the 2D but there certainly are alternate, faster routes in each level.

To be fair, the 2D games aren't exactly as exploration-heavy as some make them out to be. You usually had a main path and then either one or two extra ones; usually a high, mid and low, but often they consolidated together for the high path and the low path with some inbetween here and there. They still had various routes, but half the time these alternate routes were just shortcuts and/or led to some extra goodies. Even CD did this, albeit since you wanted the Time Stones or to destroy the Robot Generators in the past, you were encouraged to linger and hunt for either 50 rings and keep them, or good spots to build up speed, time travel and complete objectives. Generations for Modern Sonic is a strong example of multi-routing in 3D, in that while most of Modern Sonic's stages have a large primary route, there's like 3-4 ways to approach it from various angles, shortcuts and neat approaches. And along the way they do sneak in entirely alternate routes.

Serious level design question here: What are the primary incentives to go "exploring" in a Sonic level? Top of my head says "Fastest Route" and "Red Rings", then it draws blank. Extra rings are pointless (on the contrary they do give points), power-ups aren't persistent, worldbuilding's too shallow to provide meaningful tidbits, best vantage sights are always on the "core" route, no interesting side-tasks, and hidden Easter eggs aren't common. [sp]Freedom Planet 2 tries to fix this by having permanent items pickups and audio logs... the most boring solutions[/sp] I do understand that the level layout need to branch so it doesn't feel "confined"and too "straightforward". But I want to know, why do players ask for "exploration" in a Sonic game?

I don't think people want exploration in a sense, but they do want to be rewarded for having the curiosity to experiment and go about a level differently. Secret collectibles are one of the most generic ways to do that, and another would be placing extra lives or ring boxes. In Freedom Planet 2's case, they want to appeal to more than the speeding-through-level fanbase by catering to all corners. Secret collectibles, items that help your play for the casual player, lives, and hidden 'easter egg' content. Since the game has a much more fluid combat system than Sonic's does, they can provide an entertainment outlet that isn't just "go fast, real fast".

[QUOTE=DJswitch;52155810]I don't think people want exploration in a sense, but they do want to be rewarded for having the curiosity to experiment and go about a level differently.[/QUOTE] Answer that I needed to hear, although I would argue that even a well made non-path-branching level is more than capable of providing "room for experiment" if this is what people wanted.

It seems like the whole idea of this new game is that it's taking the Sonic Generations route with remaking stages, only this time they're 'ruined' having been taken over by Eggman. The modern sonic one looks like a ruined Rooftop Run, classic was obviously Green Hill. I wouldn't mind this so much if they weren't so far using the same levels they already redid in Generations. Honestly the more we see of this new game the lower my expectations get. I could be wrong at this stage of course, we haven't really seen enough yet. I certainly hope I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=llamaliker;52155899]It seems like the whole idea of this new game is that it's taking the Sonic Generations route with remaking stages, only this time they're 'ruined' having been taken over by Eggman. The modern sonic one looks like a ruined Rooftop Run, classic was obviously Green Hill. I wouldn't mind this so much if they weren't so far using the same levels they already redid in Generations. Honestly the more we see of this new game the lower my expectations get. I could be wrong at this stage of course, we haven't really seen enough yet. I certainly hope I'm wrong.[/QUOTE] I doubt the city stage they've shown is meant to be anything from Unleashed. Green Hill Zone is probably by itself in terms of that setup for Classic Sonic, and the composer has gone out and said that other Classic Sonic songs won't be like that one's so the game probably starts with GHZ turning to ruin, Classic Sonic getting warped into the present again, and Eggman's taking over the world successfully while Sonic and friends fight through the carnage before things really kick into gear.

im scared to think that the whole theme of taking the world from eggman's control might end being an open world-hub ala sonic adventure 1.

[QUOTE=Metaru;52163547]im scared to think that the whole theme of taking the world from eggman's control might end being an open world-hub ala sonic adventure 1.[/QUOTE] How would that work though; as in one of the hub worlds would be the city level as of late being absolutely destroyed by giant modified Death Egg Robots? Think it would be more appropriate if the hub world is instead a hidden base to fit with the underground movement motif going on.

I just want to hear more of Sonic Force so I can put my worries aside. It feels like reverse hype right now.

[QUOTE=KnightRider25;52151606]Fuck, they really need to re-release Sonic Colors for the Nintendo Switch.[/QUOTE] I'd rather see a PC port like Lost world got.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52164707]How would that work though; as in one of the hub worlds would be the city level as of late being absolutely destroyed by giant modified Death Egg Robots? Think it would be more appropriate if the hub world is instead a hidden base to fit with the underground movement motif going on.[/QUOTE] that sounds like a more feasible idea.

[QUOTE=Oizen;52167791]I'd rather see a PC port like Lost world got.[/QUOTE] By then what would be stopping us from getting a PC port of (HD / PS3 + Xbox 360) Unleashed?

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52168327]By then what would be stopping us from getting a PC port of (HD / PS3 + Xbox 360) Unleashed?[/QUOTE] None of these two games have Green Hill Zone in them

[video]https://soundcloud.com/voksmaigosh/green-hill-zone-reinstrumented-sonic-forces[/video] This sounds a lot better than the official version

-snip-

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52168327]By then what would be stopping us from getting a PC port of (HD / PS3 + Xbox 360) Unleashed?[/QUOTE] The Unleashed Project most likely.

only thing missing is eggmanland and that was a fun stage but unfortunately it's a hybrid day/night stage. Also the super sonic battle was p dope.

[QUOTE=redBadger;52179660]only thing missing is eggmanland and that was a fun stage but unfortunately it's a hybrid day/night stage. Also the super sonic battle was p dope.[/QUOTE] They did actually made eggmanland, it was just a seperate mod with only that stage. [video=youtube;1zm-0hVm3mk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zm-0hVm3mk[/video]

[QUOTE=KnightRider25;52179827]They did actually made eggmanland, it was just a seperate mod with only that stage. [video=youtube;1zm-0hVm3mk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zm-0hVm3mk[/video][/QUOTE] Why would someone mod back in the "WOOOOO!" and "GO!" every time sonic boosts? That was literally the best alteration Project Unleashed made besides removing Warehog.

[QUOTE=Oizen;52178825]The Unleashed Project most likely.[/QUOTE] Whole game besides just consisting of Day stages; that includes the Night / Werehog stages. :buddy:

Who the fuck plays Unleashed for the Night stages?

I wouldn't mind the night stages if they weren't 2/3rds of the game due to their sheer length compared to everything else, and if it wasn't for that goddamn [b]DUN-DUN-DUN DUN DA-DA-DUN-DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUN[/b]