I don't get the "Sonic 1 is slow" statement I've seen floating around.
There's more careful platforming segments and no spindash (which pretty much every rerelease adds) but it was not a slow game.
[QUOTE=Durrsly;52616209]I don't get the "Sonic 1 is slow" statement I've seen floating around.
There's more careful platforming segments and no spindash (which every pretty much every rerelease adds) but it was not a slow game.[/QUOTE]
Sonic 1 is considered more platforming-focused than the other Classic titles, but the "gotta go fast" meme resulted in people disregarding it as terrible shlock no one should bother with if they want to play a real Sonic game due to lacking the spindash and having slower level design. Which is obnoxious to say the least, as a lot of people act like only Green Hill Zone is anything to note from it most of the time.
Sonic 1 is a slow game because if you go fast you'll get trapped in Dr. Robotnik's Deadly Speed Traps and die.
[editline]26th August 2017[/editline]
Real answer is it's slow because they were still figuring out what they wanted the series to be and it's level design is dogshit awful with nonstop repeated setpieces. A lot of the levels feature segments that are just copy pasted randomly and just man it's bad. You can tell me it's a fast game but then I'll point at shit like marble zone that has you stand on a slow moving block half the time and just goood.
The camera in that game is so zoomed in that you just eat total shit from enemies or hazards with no real warning if you go fast and the game just punishes you for going at anything above a brisk jog.
Not to mention all the DEADLY SPEED TRAPS the game has that will just softlock you by getting stuck in level geometry and the like. There's a reason nobody likes speedrunning sonic 1. Its cause it suuucks.
Badniks were also noticeably larger (most likely because of the resolution / camera issue that Sift pointed out) and were used in really obvious ways to get a quick hit on the player (Marble and Labyrinth Zone being big examples of this).
[QUOTE=Sift;52616046]Man more I look at it more Sonic just looks out of place in the tag team footage shown. Like he seriously does not belong.
When the OC at the very start of the stage grapples onto a point he sticks his arm out, rope extends and he has a fluid half circle arc of movement you'd expect.
Right next to him though is Sonic in ball form who stops in midair and floats, does the same half circle arc (somehow) and just magnetizes to you with little to no animation. Like seriously that + his lack of animation when he's hanging on for the ground swings just make him seem like a prop and less like a partner. It's so fucking weird and ugly and god they really don't care about polish at all it feels.[/QUOTE]
I think the tag character just doesn't have an AI of its own, like Sonic Heroes teammates had, where they'd follow you around on their own.
The character you're not controlling is just stuck to some bone, resulting in a weird appendage following you instead of an actual teammate.
It's a pretty big oversight.
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52616466]I think the tag character just doesn't have an AI of its own, like Sonic Heroes teammates had, where they'd follow you around on their own.
The character you're not controlling is just stuck to some bone, resulting in a weird appendage following you instead of an actual teammate.
It's a pretty big oversight.[/QUOTE]
The two might as well be taped at the waist. There's no independence, no real switching - it's literally just the two running alongside eachother to give the player all of their abilities on one platter. Controller excerpts from Gamescome show there's no drift button, so those sharp corners are entirely automated. It's pure spectacle rather than actually having the two working together in any real way that utilizes the best of eachother's capabilities.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52616543]Controller excerpts from Gamescome show there's no drift button, so those sharp corners are entirely automated. It's pure spectacle[/QUOTE]
Thats the main complaint I have for Forces above all else, the entire game looks automated, and when there is sections you can control they are extremely simplistic and consist of loads of straight lines, simple homing attack chains, springs, special rings (or whatever the floating red and multicoloured rings are called) and tons and TONS of speed boosters that are not necessary in the slightest when they appear.
It's almost as if they don't want the player to have to walk around or build their own speed and momentum. Just force them around with boosters and springs.
[QUOTE=Septimus01;52616570]Thats the main complaint I have for Forces above all else, the entire game looks automated, and when there is sections you can control they are extremely simplistic and consist of loads of straight lines, simple homing attack chains, springs, special rings (or whatever the floating red and multicoloured rings are called) and tons and TONS of speed boosters that are not necessary in the slightest when they appear.
It's almost as if they don't want the player to have to walk around or build their own speed and momentum. Just force them around with boosters and springs.[/QUOTE]
Welcome to 3d Sonic games.
[QUOTE=Intermission;52616894]Welcome to 3d Sonic games.[/QUOTE]
There've been Sonic games that do linear corridors way better and more fluidly, and even Generations proved without a doubt that you can have shortcuts and alternate routes without screwing up the formula. Six years ago. Not to mention the original Sonic Adventure, which may have one main path per Sonic stage but did its actual stage design fairly well as a transition title.
Jesus Christ, even Sonic '06 is less linear and automated sometimes than what Forces is trying to sell people on so far.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52616926]There've been Sonic games that do linear corridors way better and more fluidly, and even Generations proved without a doubt that you can have shortcuts and alternate routes without screwing up the formula. Six years ago. Not to mention the original Sonic Adventure, which may have one main path per Sonic stage but did its actual stage design fairly well as a transition title.
Jesus Christ, even Sonic '06 is less linear and automated sometimes than what Forces is trying to sell people on so far.[/QUOTE]
I was referring to automation, and everything else that was said in Septimus1's post. Straight lines, boost pads, automation, homing attack chains, orange rings, springs. Every 3d Sonic game use these a lot, and it is very bad. 3d Sonic games do not demand the player create their own speed, they just automate the whole thing. Hopefully with how lazy Forces's level design is people begin to notice.
I feel that's wrong though in the case of generations at the very least (it's been too long since I played colors but don't recall it being a issue there)
There's a shit ton of winding paths, hidden areas and things that are effected by what the player does/doesn't want to do. There's about 4 different routes in Sky Sanctuary if I recall and managing which one you get without losing/wasting your speed/boost requires a satisfying amount of player input.
Also you literally just described sonic 4 which is kind of funny.
[QUOTE=Sift;52616962]I feel that's wrong though in the case of generations at the very least (it's been too long since I played colors but don't recall it being a issue there)
There's a shit ton of winding paths, hidden areas and things that are effected by what the player does/doesn't want to do. There's about 4 different routes in Sky Sanctuary if I recall and managing which one you get without losing/wasting your speed/boost requires a satisfying amount of player input.
Also you literally just described sonic 4 which is kind of funny.[/QUOTE]
All of these problems are in Sonic Generations too. Sonic Colours has entire levels that are essentially automated, Starlight Carnival is an example of this.
Sonic 4 is irrelevant and it can be argued it was influenced by the heavily automated Rush games and the 3d games anyway.
Colors was weird in that it wasn't exactly nonlinear in the 3D portions, instead usually having the varying paths in the 2D sections and often only to select stages given that the majority of the game was filler gimmick levels of some sort or another. Often, the nonlinear parts also relied on using Wisps in certain ways the level designers had to accommodate for - enough so that getting Super Sonic changed the level design permanently since he couldn't use Wisp powers.
Then again, Colors was also the only Sonic game so far to use the Wisps in any satisfactory fashion that wasn't a "use this thing here for mandatory play / a small shortcut around bullshit you'd otherwise have to platform through the hard way" farce. Ever since then Iizuka's just had 'em around for an arbitrary equivalent to Mario's power-ups. But that's sidetracking from the discussion.
[QUOTE=Sift;52616324]Sonic 1 is a slow game because if you go fast you'll get trapped in Dr. Robotnik's Deadly Speed Traps and die.
[editline]26th August 2017[/editline]
Real answer is it's slow because they were still figuring out what they wanted the series to be and it's level design is dogshit awful with nonstop repeated setpieces. A lot of the levels feature segments that are just copy pasted randomly and just man it's bad. You can tell me it's a fast game but then I'll point at shit like marble zone that has you stand on a slow moving block half the time and just goood.
The camera in that game is so zoomed in that you just eat total shit from enemies or hazards with no real warning if you go fast and the game just punishes you for going at anything above a brisk jog.
Not to mention all the DEADLY SPEED TRAPS the game has that will just softlock you by getting stuck in level geometry and the like. There's a reason nobody likes speedrunning sonic 1. Its cause it suuucks.[/QUOTE]
Agree. Sonic 1 is the only one that I won't replay because of this. Sonic 2 and S3&K I have no problem replaying, aside from Sonic 2's Special Stage sucking on the Genesis version.
[QUOTE=KnightRider25;52617138]Agree. Sonic 1 is the only one that I won't replay because of this. Sonic 2 and S3&K I have no problem replaying, aside from Sonic 2's Special Stage sucking on the Genesis version.[/QUOTE]
Did Whitehead fix the special stages in Sonic 2?
"Did whitehead fix"- the answer is going to be yes.
[QUOTE=TectoImprov;52617310]Did Whitehead fix the special stages in Sonic 2?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;yZGJ0s70xRk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZGJ0s70xRk[/video]
Short answer: Yes.
Talking about Sonic Generations made me want to install it on my computer again.
Maybe install some mods so I can see classic sonic in modern stages.
Sonic Generation doesn't work on my PC. The sounds doesn't work at all and I tried everything to fix it.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;52617481]Talking about Sonic Generations made me want to install it on my computer again.
Maybe install some mods so I can see classic sonic in modern stages.[/QUOTE]
Try Unleashed mod for more modern Sonic stuff.
man, the cutscene animations for everyone in that game still looks aweful. Why did they motion capture sonic and tails. makes them look like people wearing weird mascot costumes.
To be fair, Adventure 2 also used motion capture. At least, some of the time, it's inconsistent. But then there was only a handful of on-screen humans and they all got exaggerated, and the actual motion-capture was usually without the characters moving around the scene much at all besides Rouge. '06 has character models that barely emote, have bad lip sync, has actors clearly over-acting and exaggerating their motions, and puts them alongside fucking mannequins and realistic backdrops, it's basically every potential bad decision all rolled up into one.
I still can't get my head around the fact that Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 was among the first games featuring Blur Studio's work. Those guys make cinematic trailers for more than a half of video games nowadays and it's all started with those games...
[QUOTE=Megalan;52621073]I still can't get my head around the fact that Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 was among the first games featuring Blur Studio's work. Those guys make cinematic trailers for more than a half of video games nowadays and it's all started with those games...[/QUOTE]
And their CGI were some of the best parts of both. Not to mention Unleashed's stellar opening.
TIL: Sega Genesis Classics launcher keeps all your games in an uncompressed,unencrypted ROMS folder that can just be loaded into any emulator with no effort aside from changing the file extensions. Some don't even need that and are just .bin files.
I expected that out of Bubsy Two-Fur since it just uses SNES9x unlike Sega's proprietary emulator, but so far the mods have tighter DRM than the Genesis games themselves.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct1cErthI6s[/media]
Damn shame nothing came from this. Would have loved to have S3K on my android.
[QUOTE=redBadger;52622367][media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct1cErthI6s[/media]
Damn shame nothing came from this. Would have loved to have S3K on my android.[/QUOTE]
On the upside, they presumably side-lined this to work on Sonic Mania instead. As cool as a Taxman/Stealth mobile remaster of S3&K would've been, I think we got the better deal in the end.
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Sonic General Discussion Thread v1
