Sonic General Discussion Thread v1 - Games

Remember to share your thoughts on this whole debacle with Sega. [media]https://twitter.com/RubyEclipse/status/902608083200819200[/media]

[QUOTE=Phantomime;52626983]Remember to share your thoughts on this whole debacle with Sega. [media]https://twitter.com/RubyEclipse/status/902608083200819200[/media][/QUOTE] Yep, sent them a message already. [QUOTE=Sift;52626971]So you admit you pirated the game then? Or[/QUOTE] I refunded it. My next actions highly depend on SEGA's reaction to this backlash.

I'm genuinely curious if it was delayed simply to just add the DRM or not.

[QUOTE=Phantomime;52626983]Remember to share your thoughts on this whole debacle with Sega. [/QUOTE] Also just had an idea. He's a community manager/PR and yet he sends us to the support instead of passing our message to SEGA. That's... stupid.

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627036]Also just had an idea. He's a community manager/PR and yet he sends us to the support instead of passing our message to SEGA. That's... stupid.[/QUOTE] Um...not really? What has more weight, some guy saying people are pissed or a few hundred support tickets telling SEGA to fuck off and remove the DRM. Having your community manager tell you is one thing. But actually seeing the players reactions and criticisms is a whole 'nother.

So actually I want a clear view on this. Why is Denovu or whatever awful if you're a paying customer? It shouldn't effect you at all and while it's dumb they made people wait 2 weeks if you're playing it just fine and there's literally no downsides... I don't get it? The complaining seems really stupid? [QUOTE=redBadger;52627023]I'm genuinely curious if it was delayed simply to just add the DRM or not.[/QUOTE] It was to add DRM, let's not beat around the bush here. [QUOTE=Megalan;52627036]Also just had an idea. He's a community manager/PR and yet he sends us to the support instead of passing our message to SEGA. That's... stupid.[/QUOTE] I think you're giving him way more power then he actually has.

I don't care about Denuvo. ([URL="https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/"]but some people do[/URL]) But I do care that SEGA delayed the game for 2 weeks just so they could add Denuvo while saying "the game has performance problems". That's a great "fuck you" to all of us. Oh... and the game doesn't work offline at all. I have checked.

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627067]I don't care about Denuvo. ([URL="https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/"]but some people do[/URL]) But I do care that SEGA delayed the game for 2 weeks just so they could add Denuvo while saying "the game has performance problems". That's a great "fuck you" to all of us. Oh... and the game doesn't work offline at all. I have checked.[/QUOTE] If you want to get technical they did improve a lot of problems and fixed a handful of bugs (as well as doing the super tied to another button thing) They didn't lie my dude. [editline]29th August 2017[/editline] Leaderboards on the PC are already hacked lol, lots of fake times and --'--'--

[QUOTE=Sift;52627085]If you want to get technical they did improve a lot of problems and fixed a handful of bugs (as well as doing the super tied to another button thing) They didn't lie my dude.[/QUOTE] Oh let's not begin this bullshit, you and I both know that this is shitty excuse. Those problems was present in all versions and yet PS4/XBONE/SWITCH versions was released on time.

Someone misinterpreted a sprite of Mania and I really like the results. It's adorable. [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIRxjg9UMAAeFdp.jpg[/t] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIW07xoXcAAMBD0.jpg[/t] Sources: [URL="https://twitter.com/blackbookalpha/status/901971073096335360"][1][/URL] [URL="https://twitter.com/ChibiJenHen_Art/status/902326248202002432"][2][/URL]

[url]http://steamcommunity.com/games/584400/announcements/detail/1448326045461380318[/url] Sega heard out pleas!

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627094]Oh let's not begin this bullshit, you and I both know that this is shitty excuse. Those problems was present in all versions and yet PS4/XBONE/SWITCH versions was released on time.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're getting at. They literally gave PC players a updated version of the game that has a lot of bugfixes that aren't on the console yet. They didn't just sit back and add drm and thats it. You have a entirely different build of the game then I do.

[QUOTE=Sift;52627112]I'm not sure what you're getting at. They literally gave PC players a updated version of the game that has a lot of bugfixes that aren't on the console yet. They didn't just sit back and add drm and thats it. You have a entirely different build of the game then I do.[/QUOTE] I would've prefered to play game 2 weeks earlier since there are no game-breaking bugs in gold release (except for switch version)

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627117]I would've prefered to play game 2 weeks earlier since there are no game-breaking bugs in gold release (except for switch version)[/QUOTE] There's a small handful of them across the board that softlock. I've seen it (and had some ps4) issues myself featuring a couple bosses. Also you get a better experience with Tails and Knuckles due to the super button being added- Mirage Saloon 1 with Knux is garbage because there's no super toggle and if you have it unlocked your forced to burn all your rings. Sure it would of been nice to play 2 weeks ago but it's sounding more and more like you care more about the DRM thing then your letting on :S

[QUOTE=Sift;52627124] Sure it would of been nice to play 2 weeks ago but it's sounding more and more like you care more about the DRM thing then your letting on :S[/QUOTE] I will repeat it once more - I don't care about denuvo. I care about Sega delaying the game for 2 weeks without a good reason while lying about the real reason. (they didn't even add "3rd party drm" notice on the store page until an hour ago) I prefer to not let nostalgia blind me and force me to forgive Sega everything just because they greenlighted this project. I would've done that to any other game and I don't see why Mania should be an exception.

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627156]I will repeat it once more - I don't care about denuvo. I care about Sega delaying the game for 2 weeks without a good reason while lying about the real reason. (they didn't even add "3rd party drm" notice on the store page) I prefer to not let nostalgia blind me and force me to forgive SEGA everything just because they greenlighted this project. I would've done that to any other game and I don't see why Mania should be an exception.[/QUOTE] I'm just saying your story is really bizarre is all. You bought the game, played up to Flying Battery (on a blind run I'll assume that's a hour- or two in) and had a lot of fun. There was no problem with the game whatsoever, yet you closed it down when people were getting mad at the DRM and said it was because you didn't want to support them. I've argued that my dude, they did improve it over the 2 weeks. They've improved performance, fixed bugs and added features... yet you're still not happy for some reason and claiming they did nothing (which is factually wrong). I'm not trying to get some sick burn on you or anything I swear, it's just that if DRM honestly isn't a factor for you then I don't see why you aren't redownloading it and playing it. Like your stance literally makes no sense.

Besides mapping Super Sonic to different buttons, what else was added/fixed? Not asking this in a passive aggressive way as I've so far had no issues with the DRM. I'm asking out of legit curiosity.

[QUOTE=Sift;52627185]I'm just saying your story is really bizarre is all. You bought the game, played up to Flying Battery (on a blind run I'll assume that's a hour- or two in) and had a lot of fun. There was no problem with the game whatsoever, yet you closed it down when people were getting mad at the DRM and said it was because you didn't want to support them. I've argued that my dude, they did improve it over the 2 weeks. They've improved performance, fixed bugs and added features... yet you're still not happy for some reason and claiming they did nothing (which is factually wrong). I'm not trying to get some sick burn on you or anything I swear, it's just that if DRM honestly isn't a factor for you then I don't see why you aren't redownloading it and playing it. Like your stance literally makes no sense.[/QUOTE] Regardless of whether it's useful or not to him, lying about something that delayed the game for two weeks, most likely with the knowledge it would receive negative backlash, is not okay.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52627205]Besides mapping Super Sonic to different buttons, what else was added/fixed? Not asking this in a passive aggressive way as I've so far had no issues with the DRM. I'm asking out of legit curiosity.[/QUOTE] From what I understand (and is unconfirmed in some cases) -CPZ Act 2 Boss can no longer trap you and soft lock you -Studiopolis has better pathing so you can't get stuck in the level -OOZ Act 2 Boss has better hitboxes to stop from crushing you -Crushing in general has been toned down in some places (CPZ Act 1's Mega Mac tunnel) -TMZ Act 2's glitched speedrun goal has been fixed (I saw one person mention it, dunno how true it is) Nobody has checked if PGZ's Act 2 Boss has been fixed yet Haven't heard anything on if the scrolling in GHZ Act 2 was fixed (Camera sometimes lagged so you'd see spikes floating in midair)

[QUOTE=Sift;52627185]I'm just saying your story is really bizarre is all. You bought the game, played up to Flying Battery (on a blind run I'll assume that's a hour- or two in) and had a lot of fun. There was no problem with the game whatsoever, yet you closed it down when people were getting mad at the DRM and said it was because you didn't want to support them. I've argued that my dude, they did improve it over the 2 weeks. They've improved performance, fixed bugs and added features... yet you're still not happy for some reason and claiming they did nothing (which is factually wrong). I'm not trying to get some sick burn on you or anything I swear, it's just that if DRM honestly isn't a factor for you then I don't see why you aren't redownloading it and playing it. Like your stance literally makes no sense.[/QUOTE] I really appreciate that you are trying to conduct constructive conversation even if things I say sound stupid. I just don't like that they (and by they I mean sega, not mania dev team) have probably spent those 2 weeks installing non-essential feature (denuvo) on top of the game without saying the real reason of the delay. Like... I'd love to think they didn't but it's hard to trust publishers nowadays. Unfortunatelly I also see the bugfixes as a side-effect of the game delay. I really hope sega will give us a bit more insights into what has happened.

[QUOTE=Sift;52627240]From what I understand (and is unconfirmed in some cases) -CPZ Act 2 Boss can no longer trap you and soft lock you -Studiopolis has better pathing so you can't get stuck in the level -OOZ Act 2 Boss has better hitboxes to stop from crushing you [B]-Crushing in general has been toned down in some places (CPZ Act 1's Mega Mac tunnel)[/B] -TMZ Act 2's glitched speedrun goal has been fixed (I saw one person mention it, dunno how true it is) Nobody has checked if PGZ's Act 2 Boss has been fixed yet Haven't heard anything on if the scrolling in GHZ Act 2 was fixed (Camera sometimes lagged so you'd see spikes floating in midair)[/QUOTE] Good to hear on that one. I wonder if they also fixed the Sonic and Tails glitch in TMZ Act 2's boss.

[QUOTE=averygoodname;52627218]Regardless of whether it's useful or not to him, lying about something that delayed the game for two weeks, most likely with the knowledge it would receive negative backlash, is not okay.[/QUOTE] The thing is they didn't lie. That's the main point. They said they're delaying it to improve performance and they did. If they literally did nothing at all except add DRM and it was the same build that went out to the consoles [b]then[/b] that would of been a lie. I don't personally have a horse in this race. I'm genuinely indifferent as I don't PC game much and I already own Mania on 2 different consoles. I'm just pointing out that it's wrong to call them liars. You can dislike what they did, hell if you wanna boycott go ahead I'm not gonna stop you, just don't do it under false pretense

Other then not being able to play offline, can someone explain to me why Denuvo is bad?

I don't really know much about DRM/Denuvo since I recently found out about it, but I still think that they should remove it from Sonic Mania. Just seems like a really bad thing to do to such a good game and having the game be delayed for 2 weeks to add DRM also seems really stupid.

I've never seen a company quickly remove DRM like this. Games like DOOM faced very similar backlash on release for Denuvo and stuck to their guns. Considering that not only are Christian and Aaron Webber outright encouraging people to let SEGA know they don't want it, and SEGA saying they intend on removing it ASAP, and that it was intended to be able to be played offline, I have to wonder if this was something slipped in by some strange higher-up decision with no consultation. I honestly don't believe the 2 week wait was just for this because it doesn't take that long to push in DRM, especially with how many other additions this version has bug fix wise.

[QUOTE=Megalan;52627253]I really appreciate that you are trying to conduct constructive conversation even if things I say sound stupid. I just don't like that they (and by they I mean sega, not mania dev team) have probably spent those 2 weeks installing non-essential feature (denuvo) on top of the game without saying the real reason of the delay. Like... I'd love to think they didn't but it's hard to trust publishers nowadays. Unfortunatelly I also see the bugfixes as a side-effect of the game delay. I really hope sega will give us a bit more insights into what has happened.[/QUOTE] It's all speculation honestly but I'd like to give more credit to taxman and co then usual publishers as they can't possibly be happy with how this is all being handled. Hell Taxman even spit on DRM when the announcement was made which should of sent up a bunch of red flags. I guess I'm just a glass half full kinda guy but hey, can drop it. It's your money ultimately and it's not on me to judge. Just trying to un-confuse myself a bit is all.

[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;52627268]Other then not being able to play offline, can someone explain to me why Denuvo is bad?[/QUOTE] [URL]https://whyisdenuvobad.github.io/[/URL] Personally I don't care about denuvo that much in most of the games. But it is indeed does more harm than good to legitimate customers long-term. [QUOTE=Sift;52627274]It's all speculation honestly but I'd like to give more credit to taxman and co then usual publishers as they can't possibly be happy with how this is all being handled. Hell Taxman even spit on DRM when the announcement was made which should of sent up a bunch of red flags. I guess I'm just a glass half full kinda guy but hey, can drop it. It's your money ultimately and it's not on me to judge. Just trying to un-confuse myself a bit is all.[/QUOTE] No way I will ever try to blame any of the Mania devs for this. No doubt one of the execs at sega has decided that this is a good idea to do that. I think Webber could've handled it a bit better than "go to the support" but eh... I dunno the inner workings of sega so this might be a better idea.

I do genuinely believe there's been some really fucking weird mixup here. And I hate seeing people say this was all for DRM because it very obviously wasn't.

So they are removing DRM from Sonic Mania now? Out of curiosity.

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;52627284]So they are removing DRM from Sonic Mania now? Out of curiosity.[/QUOTE] Not yet. Here is how it'll probably go: Good way: Sega sees that people doesn't like denuvo and remove it themselves. Bad way: Someone cracks Mania and Sega forced by the agreement to remove denuvo from the game.