[sp]Fuck Oil Ocean's boss and the stage in general[/sp]
It'll be a really shit move if they don't disable the DRM what with both the massive outcry of fans and even the devs being against it.
[QUOTE=averygoodname;52628792]It'll be a really shit move if they don't disable the DRM what with both the massive outcry of fans and even the devs being against it.[/QUOTE]
Sadly Sega has it's own specific views on a game market just like some other japanese game companies. (I'm looking at you Nintendo and Sony) So it's almost impossible to anticipate what they are going to do next.
While i still think Mania deserves your buy, the DRM is a huge minus for the PC Version.
I'm slightly annoyed to notice how the final level seemed to, at one point, be much longer in length, with [sp]all 4 of the lower Hard Boiled Heavies going from minibosses to just rather pointless phases in the final boss battle, which left it feeling a bit underwhelming. I'm a bit saddened that Heavy King never did anything in the Sonic and/or Tails plot except for the super sonic encounter where he had a much different design. [/sp]It just bugs me how the last level feels all chopped up and halfassedly put back together.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52628012]Take your grievances to SEGA and not the community behind Mania: refunding the game would be a disservice to the people who worked on it and by this point its pretty pointless to do so.[/QUOTE]
People complain about intrusive DRM all the time, and yet game companies keep putting it in again and again. Until it actually starts affecting their bottom line none of them are going to give a shit how many angry messages they get. Complaining privately will get you a form letter response and complaining publicly will get a veritable army of pissed-off fans to shout you down. This is the only remotely effective option.
Also it's SEGA that's doing a disservice to the devs, not me. From what I've read today, it seems like the always-online DRM was added without the consent or involvement of the dev team. If true, that's all the more reason for me to rescind my payment. Sonic Mania looks fantastic, the passion and love put into it shines through. If SEGA disrespects their devs enough to blight their game for such a short-sighted and petty reason, that's not something I want to support.
There must be some sort of internal statistical "proof" that DRM improve sales (or some other benefits) for publishers to keep consulting Denuvo.
All these noise must have meant something to them. They can't just ignore customer dissatisfaction.
Of course I only find out the game has Denuvo after I'm able to refund it.
At least the game itself is stellar.
Am I the only one who wouldn't mind if they later released some sort of remix soundtrack DLC whether that be the actual developers doing it or other external artists giving it a go?
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52629154]There must be some sort of internal statistical "proof" that DRM improve sales (or some other benefits) for publishers to keep consulting Denuvo.
All these noise must have meant something to them. They can't just ignore customer dissatisfaction.[/QUOTE]
From the official denuvo slides which were leaked a while ago:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/77Od3OA.png[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/rZ0d4ts.png[/t]
Looks like those slides are convincing enough for most publishers. Let's see if Mania's refund graph will outweigh those slides.
-wrong fucking thread-
Ah, powerpoints selling things to chairboards... How amusingly disconnected from reality.
As if nobody remembers Spore's fiasco; the most pirated game of 2008, where legit users had an worse experience than those who pirated it...
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52627104]Someone misinterpreted a sprite of Mania and I really like the results. It's adorable.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIRxjg9UMAAeFdp.jpg[/t]
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIW07xoXcAAMBD0.jpg[/t]
Sources: [URL="https://twitter.com/blackbookalpha/status/901971073096335360"][1][/URL] [URL="https://twitter.com/ChibiJenHen_Art/status/902326248202002432"][2][/URL][/QUOTE]
I can't unsee her being in a mario x sonic crossover game with Bowser Jr making a fun villain duo. If this was made as a Sonic Mania leak, i'd sort of believe.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52629298]Ah, powerpoints selling things to chairboards... How amusingly disconnected from reality.
As if nobody remembers Spore's fiasco; the most pirated game of 2008, where legit users had an worse experience than those who pirated it...[/QUOTE]
It's funny because most denuvo games now get cracked within a week to a few weeks. Also that 40% claim is pure shit
[video]https://youtu.be/yD1JEHscdRA[/video]
[QUOTE=Noob4life;52629154]There must be some sort of internal statistical "proof" that DRM improve sales (or some other benefits) for publishers to keep consulting Denuvo.
All these noise must have meant something to them. They can't just ignore customer dissatisfaction.[/QUOTE]
I think it's likely that whoever was in charge of the DRM decision didn't fully understand what they were doing.
I like how people actually think Denuvo is Malware.
I'm pissed about the inclusion as well but get over yourselves.
They released an update today so I'm going to guess they patched it out.
[QUOTE=Itauske Roken;52629897]They released an update today so I'm going to guess they patched it out.[/QUOTE]
I doubt they removed it. They have probably fixed broken offline mode and that's it.
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52627104]Someone misinterpreted a sprite of Mania and I really like the results. It's adorable.
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIRxjg9UMAAeFdp.jpg[/t]
[t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIW07xoXcAAMBD0.jpg[/t]
Sources: [URL="https://twitter.com/blackbookalpha/status/901971073096335360"][1][/URL] [URL="https://twitter.com/ChibiJenHen_Art/status/902326248202002432"][2][/URL][/QUOTE]
Forgot to mention but man it bugs me more then it should that it's using SA Eggman and not Classic :v:
is it true you can bind super to another button?
[QUOTE=redBadger;52630147]is it true you can bind super to another button?[/QUOTE]
Apparently you can, but on the PC version.
[QUOTE=Sift;52628652]Real talk, aside from the always online blunder nobody has really explained why it's anti-consumer if it literally doesn't effect paying customers at all. Like assume it gets fixed if it hasn't been already I'm... still not quite seeing why people are angry at it?[/QUOTE]
It has to do with the principles of free computing over any "convenience" factor. It's about the freedom to do what you want to with the software you have on your computer. DRM makes it illegal to do what you want with software on your computer under DMCA because it is illegal to tamper with DRM. This sort of freedom is more important to many than convenience.
From an archival standpoint, DRM also effectively means that you cannot (legally) permanently archive your purchases. If the Denuvo services go down, the law states that there is no time period after which DRM and DMCA becomes invalid. If Denuvo goes away forever but Sonic Mania never gets updated to remove it, it will be illegal to remove the DRM to play your purchase until DMCA goes away.
From a convenience standpoint, my friend was hit by the hurricane hard and doesn't have access to a reliable internet connection, and he has downtime. He was really looking forward to playing this game, but now he cannot because he does not have the freedom to play the game without connection to the internet.
This is why DRM is anti consumer. It exists to say that your computer is not your own. Even if it hurts the devs to refund this game, consumers are well within their rights to not purchase software that they believes takes away their freedoms. It might not be fair to the devs, but it's also not fair to say that consumers must forsake their principles or beliefs out of pity for people, no matter how good they might be. We are not obligated to purchase anything out of any such pity. I'm sure many great people work at Verizon, for instance. Good honest people who just want to work hard for their paycheck. But the higher-ups at the company employ anti-consumer practices, such as locking down their bootloaders, attempting to block unlocking (now illegal for phone companies to do), and refusing to allow consumers to update their devices purchased from them on their own, including important security updates. I am not obligated to buy from Verizon for the sake of the people who are just doing their jobs, so I dropped them and bought a phone manufacturer-direct and went to a new carrier.
For anyone who's planning to get Mania on PC: [B]don't (for now)[/B] as you'll inadvertently be supporting DRM-based content.
I can understand most of what you're saying but there is a couple nitpicks I wanted to mention. One being you aren't buying the game. You're buying a license to access the game.
Other thing is more of a personal opinion but I think Taxman and Stealth and the entire crew that worked on Mania have a lot more at stake then the average worker seeing as this is their first original game they've been allowed to make and Izuka has stated that this will determine if we ever see another game like Mania again. It's kind of a lot more pressure I imagine, especially when it's a dream project like this.
Not to say that you're wrong about the "being obliged to buy it" part though as that wasn't really my intention.
[QUOTE=Sift;52630601]I can understand most of what you're saying but there is a couple nitpicks I wanted to mention. One being you aren't buying the game. You're buying a license to the game.[/QUOTE]
This is [I]exactly [/I]the problem.
[QUOTE=Sift;52630601]Other thing is more of a personal opinion but I think Taxman and Stealth and the entire crew that worked on Mania have a lot more at stake then the average worker seeing as this is their first original game they've been allowed to make and Izuka has stated that this will determine if we ever see another game like Mania again. It's kind of a lot more pressure I imagine, especially when it's a dream project like this.
Not to say that you're wrong about the "being obliged to buy it" part though as that wasn't really my intention.[/QUOTE]
I'm really sorry that they have to suffer for their bosses' incompetence. Though something tells me any sort of consumer revolt won't have major impact on Sega's bottom line.
First time doing the stage, and I really wanted the perfect.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NMZvByvVz4[/media]
Drastic times call for drastic measures.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52630609]This is [I]exactly [/I]the problem.
I'm really sorry that they have to suffer for their bosses' incompetence. Though something tells me any sort of consumer revolt won't have major impact on Sega's bottom line.[/QUOTE]
You say it's a problem but it's literally the case for every game ever made on any system ever made. Like at no point did I buy super mario world and suddenly I "own" super mario world and can do whatever I want with it- I just bought a license to play it on my super nintendo.
A consumer revolt won't effect SEGA but it does have the potential to effect the Mania team as they are, at their core, a 3rd party developer that was commissioned to make the game. A revolt against their product could in theory lead to SEGA reading it the wrong way or just flat out passing blame to them.
Once again I'm honestly not trying to guilt people into buying something if they don't want to but it's not a happy situation for anyone involved.
[editline]30th August 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52630587]For anyone who's planning to get Mania on PC: [B]don't[/B] for now as you'll inadvertently be supporting DRM-based content.[/QUOTE]
On a counterpoint- I'd say buy it if you want to play it and you don't care. DRM or not it's still a fantastic game.
[QUOTE=Sift;52630640]You say it's a problem but it's literally the case for every game ever made on any system ever made. Like at no point did I buy super mario world and suddenly I "own" super mario world and can do whatever I want with it- I just bought a license to play it on my super nintendo.[/QUOTE]
That's why it's a problem!
[QUOTE=Sift;52630640]You say it's a problem but it's literally the case for every game ever made on any system ever made. Like at no point did I buy super mario world and suddenly I "own" super mario world and can do whatever I want with it- I just bought a license to play it on my super nintendo. [/QUOTE]
This was never the case before steam and console online shops. No one can restrict you from playing super mario world because you physically own the game. Nintendo can't get into your house and take cartridge away. But this is exactly what's happening if game is protected by denuvo or any other drm. They just replaced the house with steam/psn/etc account
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Sonic General Discussion Thread v1
