Sonic General Discussion Thread v1 - Games

[media]https://twitter.com/durrsly/status/908187039186735105[/media] watch player 2's side [I]i was not playing against cpu this was all done accidentally[/I]

[QUOTE=Reds;52679812]Because Sonic is now his own supporting cast, now play Green Hill Zone again.[/QUOTE] Dreamcast Sonic, Comic Sonic, Icecream Sonic with gumball eyes, Sonic Raiders Sonic, and GBA Sonic coming soon in Sonic Generations 2.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;52679844]Dreamcast Sonic, Comic Sonic, Icecream Sonic with gumball eyes, Sonic Raiders Sonic, and GBA Sonic coming soon in Sonic Generations 2.[/QUOTE] [sp]& Knuckles[/sp]

[QUOTE=Durrsly;52679852][sp]& Knuckles[/sp][/QUOTE] that's just Red Sonic

[QUOTE=Sift;52679672]I always took the sonic series to be light as hell and the ever darker tones just SEGA trying to cash in on the maturing audience in literally all the wrong ways. Eggman was pitched as a beaver lookin dude in pajamas and even in the more revered game he's always had a goofy sense of humor. He's built idiot lumberjack robots to huck wood at you, he's driven inside a giant bean and accidentally slammed himself into trees slapstick style and more. He usually had a more sinister device waiting at the end of the games but there was a healthy mix to it. Adventure got rid of the goofy side entirely and went into grimdark idiot territory with Eggman wanting to blow up cities and maim people because EVIL and just... it really didn't need to go that far. It's kinda weird. Unleashed may be a mess thanks to the werehog but it's when I think Eggman as a villain found the happy medium of returning to be a goof with increasingly dangerous weapons and he's been pretty okay for the most part since then (even if lost world skewed to the edgier side of things)[/QUOTE] my favorite sonic stories are the ones that are light hearted and fun and then eggman summons a world ending abomination I do admit I enjoy sonic getting into darker places, but always as a contrast to the lighter tone of everything else. like you don't really process how fucked up some of the stuff is until you think hard on it. unleashed probably is the gold standard for me in terms of style and tone, but even then if they went even darker with it I think they could've gotten away with it more

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52679614][video=youtube;bHQ3sm82Hw0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHQ3sm82Hw0[/video][/QUOTE] How does Sonic Unleashed from last gen in 2008 have better graphics and art than Sonic Forces in 2017?!?

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;52677516]I think that, after the success of Sonic Mania, that Sonic Team is going to learn the wrong lessons from the game and just pander to nostalgia so we get Sonic 4 all over again. Sonic Mania was a good game [I]because it had good gameplay[/I], the retro-throwback spritework and design was just icing on the cake. Sonic Mania has tight controls, good platforming, interesting level design, a lot of fast paced movement with good camera angles that give a feeling of speed but also not taking control away from the player. The plot was bare bones which worked in its favor because it didn't carry the baggage that most modern Sonic games have in their poorly written stories. Sonic and the gang in the modern games have their moments, but at the same time they're just, well... (1m44s in particular) [video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTDp70UgS9k?t=1m44s[/video] The biggest issue with the modern games is the writing and voice direction. The plots are basic, full of overused tropes and the characters frequently hold the idiot ball and end up helping the bad guys where anyone with common sense wouldn't. The voices are stilted, disassociated from the situation and poorly intonated. Sonic should come off as cool and fresh, which means he should speak when it's necessary and not comment on every little minor thing, and he shouldn't be a cheese ball with sayings like "we'll show that creep with the REAL SUPER POWER OF TEAMWORK!" like he's in a Saturday morning cartoon. He doesn't have to be silent but he shouldn't be a one liner spouting dork either. Likewise the plots don't have to be bare bones but they should make the player care and actually get invested in the story. The next Sonic game after Forces inevitably reviews terribly is either gonna be bland with no plot other than "stop Eggman" or is going to continue going full ham with terrible writing in the "so bad it's bad" way.[/QUOTE] Late, but let me just admit here, the only reason I now have interest in Sonic franchise is because of all the cheesiness of the Sonic caste's quotes and all that narm charm the series flourishing with. Also, Sonic himself's special charisma.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52679923]How does Sonic Unleashed from last gen in 2008 have better graphics and art than Sonic Forces in 2017?!?[/QUOTE] Less budget? Less effort? I don't know, the engine's on a whole new version and the one scene of Sonic falling into some technopit looks really good, but it's like they've been underpowering the engine or flatout not tapping into its potential whatsoever. Generations actually had some effects go unused, and even had remnants of Unleashed shader code that modders unearthed and repaired, and it made the game a lot more visually impressive. Even Lost World wasn't completely hung out to dry, as different surfaces could actually "reflect" lighting onto Sonic (sub-surface scattering?) but the game either never really uses it or just made it so subtle that the environmental lighting overtook his model. Unleashed had two years of polish and detail, and Forces has Sonic Retro secretly pondering if this game was only in [i]production[/i] for four years and only started development in the past year or so. It's so unrefined in many ways and with cut corners, like how the Tag Team drifting is a completely still animation without even wind affecting the models.

[QUOTE=Sift;52679672]I always took the sonic series to be light as hell and the ever darker tones just SEGA trying to cash in on the maturing audience in literally all the wrong ways. Eggman was pitched as a beaver lookin dude in pajamas and even in the more revered game he's always had a goofy sense of humor. He's built idiot lumberjack robots to huck wood at you, he's driven inside a giant bean and accidentally slammed himself into trees slapstick style and more. He usually had a more sinister device waiting at the end of the games but there was a healthy mix to it. Adventure got rid of the goofy side entirely and went into grimdark idiot territory with Eggman wanting to blow up cities and maim people because EVIL and just... it really didn't need to go that far. It's kinda weird. Unleashed may be a mess thanks to the werehog but it's when I think Eggman as a villain found the happy medium of returning to be a goof with increasingly dangerous weapons and he's been pretty okay for the most part since then (even if lost world skewed to the edgier side of things)[/QUOTE] Reposting this again: [QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52227670]He still has a relentless and threatening side to him, though (i.e: eviscerate / vaporize / whatever to Sonic and his friends, shoving animals into robots and using them as power sources against their will, using superweapons as a means for compliance against resistance, etc). Behind that cheeky exuberance of a man is a cold-hearted want-to-be dictator and while he isn't some mass murderer or total psychopath, he's perfectly willing to be destructive and sadistic for his own gains and those characteristics alone are what establish him as a villain for the series.[/QUOTE] Adding onto that in the same game with said Egg Mobile variant (that looks kind of like a bean) he built bots whose sole purpose, besides being sentries to watch out for Sonic and Tails, were to cause forest fires. His actions in Adventure are exactly what he would do if he was pushed into a last resort and his intentions weren't genocide but to cause the most property damage imaginable; the only people he really wants to kill are Sonic and Tails but that's because they keep getting in the way.

Sonic Forces feels like Sonic 06. A game they rushed out just so they can meet the anniversary deadline.

[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52680518]Reposting this again: Adding onto that in the same game with said Egg Mobile variant (that looks kind of like a bean) he built bots whose sole purpose, besides being sentries to watch out for Sonic and Tails, were to cause forest fires. His actions in Adventure are exactly what he would do if he was pushed into a last resort and his intentions weren't genocide but to cause the most property damage imaginable; the only people he really wants to kill are Sonic and Tails but that's because they keep getting in the way.[/QUOTE] Why bother with those pretensions when you can simply discard the clownish traits and embrace being a narcissistic, psychopathic technology-obsessed dictator entirely?

What's up with your obsession of Eggman being super dark and spooky? In my opinion Eggman works best as a silly, jolly madman like in the original series and Mania. It's not like he can't slightly differ in different iterations, but his character shines when he's creating ridiculous inventions, and trying to overtake the world by persuasion and his creations. I always felt the awakening gods and demons and shit was so out of place in Sonic but I've never really mentioned that because so many people seemed to just accept it. I guess I'm just a stickler for the atmosphere and silliness of the original games, but something about the modern stuff just [I]always[/I] rubbed me the wrong way. Doesn't feel like the same series really.

I think SA1-2 Eggman has the perfect blend of hammy and serious thanks to his voice and the writing not quite going off the rails just yet, at least as far as he was concerned and as far as "serious" Sonic plots go.

[QUOTE=The Civ;52680885]What's up with your obsession of Eggman being super dark and spooky? In my opinion Eggman works best as a silly, jolly madman like in the original series and Mania. It's not like he can't slightly differ in different iterations, but his character shines when he's creating ridiculous inventions, and trying to overtake the world by persuasion and his creations. I always felt the awakening gods and demons and shit was so out of place in Sonic but I've never really mentioned that because so many people seemed to just accept it. I guess I'm just a stickler for the atmosphere and silliness of the original games, but something about the modern stuff just [I]always[/I] rubbed me the wrong way. Doesn't feel like the same series really.[/QUOTE] I think that's the first time I've ever expressed those sentiments on this forum. Have we met elsewhere? And why? Probably because there was a precedent set in the first season of SatAM and I enjoyed it.

TBH Sonic Boom (TV Show) Eggman is the best incarnation full stop.

SatAM Robotnik isn't particularly indicative of the guy in the actual games who had a theme that sounded like this in the game released a week after SatAM aired. You can only kinda divorce the character from his original portrayal so much before he becomes related in name only, and a guy called Eggman was never meant to be exclusively sinister. [video=youtube;uTXR0T5mJ68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTXR0T5mJ68[/video]

[QUOTE=Reds;52681115]SatAM Robotnik isn't particularly indicative of the guy in the actual games who had a theme that sounded like this in the game released a week after SatAM aired. [video=youtube;uTXR0T5mJ68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTXR0T5mJ68[/video][/QUOTE] Forgetting the American version of that track, are we? And it doesn't matter what the games convey, since they happen to be wildy inconsistent, not to mention that all Sonic media--including and beyond the games--is valid in the use of any argument for what Sonic should or shouldn't be. If the villain is a rotund, bald scientific genius with a fancy mustache and a fixation on robotics and industry, I'd say he encapsulates the achetype the character is meant to represent. SatAM Robotnik was not "in name only." If anything, the design of SatAM Robotnik as a cyborg dictator hews closer to the concept the Eggman character retroactively arrived at. If you're familiar with the timeline of Eggman's development, you'd know that the character was conceived of before SEGA decided upon the contrast of nature and technology for the plot and setting. In that sense, Eggman was retrofitted to be a technocratic scientist; he didn't start that way.

[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;52680653]Sonic Forces feels like Sonic 06. A game they rushed out just so they can meet the anniversary deadline.[/QUOTE] They already missed anniversary by a year so it doesn't look like they have/had strict deadlines on this one.

Wasn't Forces already delayed once?

[QUOTE=Reds;52681115]SatAM Robotnik isn't particularly indicative of the guy in the actual games who had a theme that sounded like this in the game released a week after SatAM aired. You can only kinda divorce the character from his original portrayal so much before he becomes related in name only, and a guy called Eggman was never meant to be exclusively sinister. [video=youtube;uTXR0T5mJ68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTXR0T5mJ68[/video][/QUOTE] And then they remixed the US version of Stardust Speedway Bad Future for Metal Sonic in Forces.

[QUOTE=redBadger;52681341]Wasn't Forces already delayed once?[/QUOTE] No. The first trailer said it's going to be released "Holiday 2017" so for now everything is going according to plan

[QUOTE=redBadger;52681341]Wasn't Forces already delayed once?[/QUOTE] Alongside Mania, Forces missed the 25th Anniversary of the series by a year, but it's still being considered as the anniversary game. So technically it may have gotten delayed somewhere down the line, but that was before its announcement.

[QUOTE=thepwnwar;52681112]TBH Sonic Boom (TV Show) Eggman is the best incarnation full stop.[/QUOTE] That's a lie, and you know it. [video]https://youtu.be/PjuhnuwFBQw[/video]

Long John Baldry [I]made[/I] Robotnik in AoSTH. He's still an incredibly extreme take on Eggman though. SaTAM Robotnik is at the other end of the spectrum and he's just too generic as a result (despite being voiced by the extremely talented Jim Cummings).

And games Eggman isn't generic? What are your metrics for judging what's trite in this case? I see the word [I]generic[/I] frivolously applied as a negative buzzword so often in the Sonic community that it may as well be sapped of all meaning. I hate to say it, but Eggman's character tropes (buffoonish wannabe tyrant with goofy themed minions) are far more prevalent than Robotnik's (psychopathic dictator that successfully conquered the setting of the plot). If you can name more than six characters representing the latter off the top of your head, I'll be impressed.

I always saw Eggman has a Evil Genius with the handy work that no one can compare to, But what stops him is his incompetence and childish temperaments, I really like it when Eggman Gets really serious like in the Egg Dragoon Fight in Unleashed, Final Fever in CD and last half of Mania. [video=youtube;QoImpEy9CZg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoImpEy9CZg[/video] Plus, I also imagine that Eggman is a really great designer in mind. I mean how could be build an army of really cool robots like this guy? [t]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/5/58/Mecha-Bu.png/revision/latest?cb=20151004084020[/t]

Well, guess I was wrong. I assumed you were just jadded with Team Fortress 2, but a normal guy otherwise. That is not the case. It seems, no matter the topic, you will engage in pseudoelocuent (read: needlessly verbose) tirades about how your standards aren't met and why your standards should be met. You are a bore to read, Exor. You just whine from a high horse.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52682076]Well, guess I was wrong. I assumed you were just jadded with Team Fortress 2, but a normal guy otherwise. That is not the case. It seems, no matter the topic, you will engage in pseudoelocuent (read: needlessly verbose) tirades about how your standards aren't met and why your standards should be met. You are a bore to read, Exor. You just whine from a high horse.[/QUOTE] Honestly I find SatAM Robotnik to be the most competent of the incarnations of the Doc.

[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52682076]Well, guess I was wrong. I assumed you were just jadded with Team Fortress 2, but a normal guy otherwise. That is not the case. It seems, no matter the topic, you will engage in pseudoelocuent (read: needlessly verbose) tirades about how your standards aren't met and why your standards should be met. You are a bore to read, Exor. You just whine from a high horse.[/QUOTE] None of that was needlessly verbose, the most you could claim was that the trope descriptions were overdone. You're just seeking conflict with me because we have a difference in opinion. You claim that I'm being conceited (for some reason), yet you're the one being condescending.

I think my favourite renditions of Eggman are the ones where he straddles the line between comedic and genuinely threatening. Where he's presented as someone who, for all his incompetence and ego, is still able to do [I]a lot[/I] of damage if you let him.