Star Citizen Megathread - Star Marine isn't doomed after all!

[Bradyns]

I am loving my M50.

[t]http://i.imgur.com/PJz4akC.png[/t]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/MUta9fu.png[/t]

[Miya]

New star citizen theme song in 2.4 files

[video]https://soundcloud.com/user-393138560/star-citizen-main-theme-final[/video]

[Hezzy]

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy.

[jonoPorter]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50518813][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

So pretty much like any TOS for a videogame you agree to ever?

[TheVoidDragon]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50518813][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, why would that worry anyone at all? Its like you're saying they put that in specifically because they're just suddenly going to go backrupt soon; they aren't, there's nothing to worry about.

As i expect many people have pointed out before, the pledges have always been considered to be more along the lines of donations; you're giving them money to help develop the game, accepting the risks that it might never happen.

Not to mention that was already in the TOS a year ago: [url]http://imgur.com/a/Ov1Tt[/url] the majority of what they've changed is making things a bit easier to understand. The Red text is what's been added with the new one. The "no refunds unless we fail to give you it" has been there for at least a year. They added the words "ceased development" to that sentence but it should be pretty obvious why that's there, if there was a problem everyone getting refunds while they're still trying to sort things out would only make everything worse. Think about it, previously it only said you could get a refund once they've failed to deliver the pledge...but what counted as that? Without any dates, you could just right away say "i don't have it, i want a refund" even though it's still being worked on. Now the "ceased development" addition makes it clear that it's once it's confirmed that your pledge is not going to happen.

Also, those refunds are only for the "unearned portion of your Pledge" anyway, so if you got the ship you pledged for, you wouldn't get a refund for that for example.

[Creec]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50518813][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have [B]of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy[/B].[/QUOTE]

You are wondering why people dislike your posts in this thread, but then you write stuff like that just to stir some shit again.

[dai]

He's just concerned for our well being. Look at the joyful relief in his words when he tried to gave lekkism a reach-around in front of everybody for rightfully taking his money back [sp]in a case where a refund was the proper course for all parties involved[/sp]

[Creec]

I mean, i'm not against Hezzy. If anything i see what he is trying to do by criticizing star citizen and raising concerns, but that post was just plain stupid and misleading as well.

Hezzy is a living clickbait at this point.

[Capgun]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50518813][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

Nah.

[Archangel125]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50518813][url]https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4njwmo/new_tos/[/url]

Does it not worry anybody that they've changed the TOS to state that no more refunds will be given until RSI has ceased development... by which time they will have of course ran out of money and filed for bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

Why should it? Before any pledge or package is purchased, there has ALWAYS been a little checkbox that you have to check before you can complete it, which basically says "Sorry, you're pledging for a game's development, not buying a product. We can't refund you."

Anyone who, therefore, pledges for anything, receives the item that incentivized that pledge, and then demands a refund and claims they've got a right to be refunded, is a retard.

Which, I guess, is an accurate descriptor for almost everyone on SA, so it's hardly surprising.

[Ronin]

[QUOTE=dai;50520286]He's just concerned for our well being.[/QUOTE]

Like how he was concerned for his Minecraft clan NationCraft, resulting in him making the minecraft section and creating a nationcraft subforum, so he could have a tighter grip on trolls and shitposters? I keenly recall Garry deleting the entire section, and then Hezzy crying to garry about how he had "deleted probably thousands of hours of work" created by other Facepunchers.

I think Garry responded very reasonably by banning him and making him ban on sight, since he couldn't trust Hezzy anymore. Such is Hezzy's legacy, how very disappointing.

[Hezzy]

If you guys can't see anything wrong with a revised ToS that strips everybody of their consumer rights then I guess there's no helping any of you :v:

[Saxon]

I don't need your help, I'm good thanks.

[Korro Bravin]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50521783]If you guys can't see anything wrong with a revised ToS that strips everybody of their consumer rights then I guess there's no helping any of you :v:[/QUOTE]

Congratulations, you have just described EVERY ToS ever.

[dai]

it's the same terms with easier language, and even legalese isn't exempt from the fact everybody's met with this message when attempting to make a purchase, both in plain text and with links to the related ToS documentation

[img]http://i.imgur.com/bSaSYIr.png[/img]

beyond that

[quote]Pledges made under previous Terms of Services continue to be governed by the corresponding clause of the Terms of Services, or of the Commercial Terms, as applicable, which were in effect at the time of making the Pledge[/quote]

if you pledged before this ToS update you're still capable of doing whatever the old ToS specified since that's the contract you signed under.

[TheVoidDragon]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50521783]If you guys can't see anything wrong with a revised ToS that strips everybody of their consumer rights then I guess there's no helping any of you :v:[/QUOTE]

Except if you had read my post you would have noticed the thing you are complaining about has been there for at least a year, the changes made are just to make things easier to understand, and pledges have always been considered to be more along the lines of donations.

You're saying you expect refunds should be given when you knowingly took the risk to help fund development and accepted the quite clear message pointing out that it might not happen when you pledge?

You seemingly don't even know what you're complaining about as the refunds stated there are in relation to the "unearned" portion of a pledge only, not the entire thing.

[elix]

[media]https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/742341326608424960[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/741721947994787840[/media]

Hezzy's concerns about the new ToS are a total coincidence, right?

[video=youtube;hNOeZnMjVJo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNOeZnMjVJo[/video]
[QUOTE]00:52 – Teamwork
04:22 – The Hornet
06:47 – Star System Size
09:08 – Banu Merchantman
10:21 – Next Hangar Ready Ship
13:21 – Organizing
16:42 – Wrangling Art Assets
19:22 – Galactapedia
21:16 – Character Creation Pipeline
25:26 – Loremakers[/QUOTE]

Drake Dragonfly concept sale on Friday. It'll cost $35 and come with LTI, and apparently will also be sold as a two-pack due to its utility.

[URL="https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/332357"]They're also holding a silly contest in which everyone is encouraged to submit shitty drawings of what they picture the Dragonfly concept to look like.[/URL] Entries must be hand-drawn and shitty, if they are "too good" they're disqualified. The person who is the closest to the concept gets a free Dragonfly, and the person who is the farthest from the concept gets one -- the best and worst guesses are the prizes this time.

[TheVoidDragon]

Will be great to see what the Drake Dragonfly is actually like, the description of it is doesn't give much indication of what it is beyond it not being a normal ship.

[fnox]

-snip-

[Ronin]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50521783]If you guys can't see anything wrong with a revised ToS that strips everybody of their consumer rights then I guess there's no helping any of you :v:[/QUOTE]

Considering your history, you worry too much about all the wrong things, and since you ignore anyone who outs you as the ignorant fool you are, there's clearly no helping you. :v:v

[elix]

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50522447]Is it really that inconceivable that someone knowledgeable would find oddities in the development of the game?[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. And I'm waiting for that to happen and I've been disappointed every time Hezzy has stepped into this thread.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50522447]Hell, what even makes Derek Smart's criticisms of Star Citizen wrong?[/QUOTE]
Because they're at best reading maximum cynicism, warranted or not, into any and every single thing CIG does, and at worst misleading and outright fallacious.

For example, Derek claims that June 1st was the expiration of the 18-month window after the expected delivery date of November 2014 as given in the Kickstarter campaign and its associated TOS. This may be completely true, I'm not a contract lawyer. This is the non-contentious portion of his often-repeated position on the TOS.

Where Derek goes wrong is that he then goes beyond that baseline fact and states that this applies to all backers (recall that it's the [I]Kickstarter[/I] TOS that provides for an 18-month deadline for refunds), and he conflates the 18-month refund clause with a completely separate clause of the TOS that states that, in the event of total collapse and failure to deliver, backers will be owed a financial post-mortem to account where the money went such that the project failed. Derek claims that this post-mortem must be delivered on the 18-month window, as if the project must now shut down because it ran out of time.

Simple fact is, CIG has shown constant forward progress, even if that progress hasn't always translated directly to being put into live builds for backers to test (such as the delayed Star Marine maps and all of SQ42's work), and that defeats the "failure" test pretty obviously. Derek wants to see Star Citizen crash and burn and is doing everything he can in his impotent reach to make it happen, which at this point consists of running a FUD campaign based on the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duane_Gish#Debates"]Gish Gallop[/URL].

As for what makes goons so wrong, you post on the SA thread, you should know the kind of libelous obsessive shitposting that happens over there. "All" goons aren't against SC, but there's a core crew of about 20 shitposting addicts that feed Derek and un/ironically stalk the RSI forums and social media accounts as well as Reddit for mockery fodder. Sure, that's business as usual over at SA, but Lowtax has personally had to go into the thread to demand they stop being stalkercreepy over Sandi Gardiner. They've also been invading other forums, most notably the Frontier Development forums, spreading their negativity and bullshit. They are actively trying to fuck with the project's community perception. Am I supposed to pretend this isn't happening?

Criticism about Star Citizen is not banned in this thread. However, people in this thread are familiar enough with the project to spot the twisted-truth earmarkings of Derek Smart FUD, and at this point it's nearly impossible for anyone who wants to read criticism of SC to avoid tripping over some of that misinformation as it filters through the web. In this way, Derek's ongoing hate campaign over Star Citizen (and I can dig up pages of quotes in which he reveals that it's a personal grudge for him) is destroying the ability to talk about SC by polarizing things.

If you actually lurked in the thread instead of swinging in just for the drama whenever someone posts about it in the GMF/elsewhere, you'd see that there's criticism of SC that comes and goes with casual polite debate and no giant accusations of being a Derek drone, and it's because it's informed criticism by someone who understands the project, rather than repeating whatever controversy dribbled out of Derek's mouth and into the SA thread's shitposting collage.

[Archival]

[QUOTE=Hezzy;50521783]If you guys can't see anything wrong with a revised ToS that strips everybody of their consumer rights then I guess there's no helping any of you :v:[/QUOTE]

Spoiler alert: consumer rights given by your countries law overrule a companies ToS, it straight up changes nothing

[fnox]

-snip-

[Hezzy]

I still had to google what FUD was

Who even says FUD

[editline]15th June 2016[/editline]

In the past week, CIG have remained painfully quiet about their attendance at E3 despite confirming with the event organisers that they would attend, as early as late April. CIG then pull out of E3 with no explanation.

There are rumours flying about that cannot be substantiated, so take them with a grain of salt;

[quote]We're partnered with them [CIG], of course. We are. It's four months before E3 and we're getting our PC showcase set up. We're reaching out to get demos, sizzle reels, all kinds of different promo stuff. We hear back from a lot of people; there's some new stuff, new games, new partners, all that. Absent is a response from CIG.

Someone else here handles all that, she's calling and calling thinking there's some mistake or she's not getting through to the right people. It's now three months until the PC Gamer showcase and there's nothing on the table from CIG. She's trying to set up a conf call or a face to face with CIG and there's nothing solid set up.

She finally talks to someone over there and is assured we'll get a slice of scripted gameplay and some cutscene stuff with the big name A listers on the project. E3 is what, six weeks away? Maybe seven at this point.

A week later what we get a package with a disc, no explanation, table of contents, nothing. On it, there's nothing new, [its] a mashup of all their previous trailers. It's not even cut differently. We have the Hamil one, the Oldman speech, some fighters shooting things and some FPS segments that were lifted straight out of the last con they did. They're all just dumped into a "Promo" folder on a blu-ray.

She's thinking this is a mistake, they sent us the wrong material -- easy mistake to make, you throw in an old disc instead of the one you just cut, it got handled differently, an intern misunderstood what we wanted, whatever. So she calls them up again, no response, emails, nothing.

Two weeks later we get what is referred to around here as the "Letter." Capital "L" letter. The email is addressed to everyone high up at AMD, not even the gaming guys but the chip designers and the heads of departments. The PDF attachment is a rambling statement from Chris about how we're pushing him into something he doesn't think is necessary, he has a vision and that it's "too important" to be disrespected like this.

The decision was made to drop them from the show after that. Probably from our partnership as well, but that's above my head.[/quote]

Then the TOS changes to refuse the right to give refunds, stripping customers of their consumer rights.

These two events in isolation are bad, but not to the extent that it is wholly concerning. For example, a lack of an appearance at E3 could just mean that they are slipping slightly behind schedule, or are refocusing for other events later along the line when they're not in crunch mode, or whatever excuse you can think of. There's been no explanation so we don't know their reason why.

Taken together, I believe it is indicative of a struggling project. I would warn against buying any more ships or packages from CIG until at least they show more of their game, or release something more substantial. I've been reading reddit quite frequently in the past week or so and it's refreshing to see people challenging the status quo and asking poignant questions about the quality of the 2.4 release, the lack of presence at E3, the TOS changes.

[fnox]

-snip-

[Why485]

CIG has never made a big E3 showing. When they attend big gaming conferences and make a big deal out of them, it's always Gamescom because they have a huge German fanbase.

[editline]14th June 2016[/editline]

Oh shit, I didn't mean to reply seriously.

What I meant to say was that Chris is an overrated hack fraud who has used his cult of personality to swindle millions of dollars from users with a misplaced sense of trust in a man who is known for making a couple decent games 20 years ago, ragequitting the games industry because he couldn't stand pressure from a publisher, and then making some mediocre movies.

He's banking on the nostalgia of old men, and because of their current place in life they have a large amount of disposable income that they don't know what to do with and are willing to throw it away in the off chance of living out their childhood DREAMS. Chris knows his audience. He knows how to tug at the heartstrings. He is a mastermind of marketing and exploitation of nostalgia.

Chris Roberts truly is the George Lucas of video games.

[fnox]

-snip-

[Flak]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50522273]Loading Tweet...
[URL]https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/742341326608424960[/URL]

Loading Tweet...
[URL]https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/741721947994787840[/URL]

Hezzy's concerns about the new ToS are a total coincidence, right?[/QUOTE]
I am a Star Citizen backer and I think Hezzy is being retarded, but that news is days old. Hezzy could have got it from anywhere. You really need to stop accusing Hezzy of being a DSmart mouthpiece because that shit is seriously bad faith.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;50522447]Hell, what even makes Derek Smart's criticisms of Star Citizen wrong? That his games suck? Why does that matter, why is it relevant? We don't demand movie critics to be also filmmakers so why is this an exception? I mean, he is qualified, his games may not be the next big thing but he HAS made games and he HAS been involved in working with a development team so he has some more understanding about game development than what you for example may have. The things he says aren't wrong just because he says them, it's horribly foolish to see[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to talk about conspiracies or Goons or any of that other shit, because I honestly don't care about it and have no idea what's going on. But Derek Smart I know well, because that failure has been a stain on gaming and the internet at large since I was kid. His games aren't just bad, they're incomplete, buggy, unplayable pieces of shit. Every single one of them, awful, like WarZ bad. No, not hyperbole, they are legitimately that bad (or even worse, in the case of LoD). Calling Derek Smart a game developer is like calling a butcher a surgeon. The man has no idea what he is doing, but somehow he thinks his games are some of the best stuff on the market.

That's the source of his insanity over Star Citizen: he thinks his games are better. He even thinks he did everything SC has done/will do before they even thought of it. Problem is, his games did almost none of it but the man is completely delusional and firmly believes otherwise. He is mentally ill and virtually nothing he has ever said about SC has been verifiable. His arguments and "facts" hold about as much value as the insane ramblings of a tinfoil-sporting schizo, and once again that is not hyperbole.

This is not new behaviour: Derek Smart has always been this insane. From the Early 90's with Battlecruiser to today with Line of Defense, the man shits on his keyboard, calls it a masterpiece, and yells at/threatens/defames anyone who says otherwise. If you believe anything he has to say I have a bridge to sell you with 3 prophets and a psychic medium on it.

[fnox]

-snip-

[Electrocuter]

If anyone is doing the thread title's drinking game he's probably dead by now.