Star Citizen Megathread - Star Marine isn't doomed after all! - Games

[QUOTE=ScottyWired;50967280]no no, clearly the best option here is a community-run punkbuster[/QUOTE] someone in this era believes this ? been there, did that, seen it fail, never again ... [editline]29th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=jonoPorter;50967426]I would rather not have an anti cheat that is essentially a rootkit[/QUOTE] I assume you have nothing against OS designed by NSA ;) or fancy features in hardware lower than OS can see (lower than UEFI, hypervisor) BE in terms what I can do is no worse offender than any other AC with own drivers/services it just does it better than the rest vs the cheating crowd ... also Rootkit would mean it's hiding what it does, while BE isn't hiding it's actions nor elements so I suggest you stop reading articles from certain cheat maker ... [editline]29th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=elixwhitetail;50967752] ... [/QUOTE] failure to read, what I said was that if you bought the Quadpack in KS, cursed the remaining 3 accounts to lose benefits of the primary buyer (e.g. discounts and some others) while that was said it would not happen during KS, it happened ... so no as original backer I regrettably wasn't buying separate copies instead ... no big deal, just lesson learned for several hundreds of those who belong to the group of KS quad packs ... also I wasn't the one complaining about hackers in SC alphas (others were) I really don't give damn about state of alphas (have other games and work to do) and I was just joking what could be done to sort it instantly by BE ;) ...

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50968166] I-it's not a rootkit guys, I know what I'm talking about I work at BOHEMIA Why do you care about your privacy if you're already using windows? Nothing to hide nothing to fear right guys? ;)))) [/QUOTE] This is what I gathered from your post and it's a load of shit. No AC has the right to almost become spyware and acting like Windows is already spying on you is not an argument.

afaik, even super invasive anti cheats usually don't work that much better. In the end it all just comes down to their ability to respond to new hacks, and closing loopholes.

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;50968242]This is what I gathered from your post and it's a load of shit. No AC has the right to almost become spyware and acting like Windows is already spying on you is not an argument.[/QUOTE] so let me guess you don't even know what components other AC have nor what they do ... I wonder what would then say about some cripple-ware claiming to be AC ;) anyway feel free to believe in some fairy-tales instead of learning how things really work ...

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50968381]so let me guess you don't even know what components other AC have nor what they do ... I wonder what would then say about some cripple-ware claiming to be AC ;) anyway feel free to believe in some fairy-tales instead of learning how things really work ...[/QUOTE] an elite fanboy talks about fairy tales lmao

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50968381]so let me guess you don't even know what components other AC have nor what they do ... I wonder what would then say about some cripple-ware claiming to be AC ;) anyway feel free to believe in some fairy-tales instead of learning how things really work ...[/QUOTE] To be fair, Elite's anti-cheat is abysmally bad. There's no reason for Star Citizen to cripple its online experience with something so invasive, especially when the bandwidth overhead is already massive.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50968391]an elite fanboy talks about fairy tales lmao[/QUOTE] contrary to what you believe, I backed ED, SC, Shallow Space, EverSpace and dozen other space games ... do I want ED be better, yes do I want SC to be great (even if it's just Squadron 42 singleplayer which I backed in first place) do I want SC:PU to be best MMO space game with 'real-time combat' (aka not EvE) in far future, yes cause they have the funding and minds to pull it sooner than anyone else because I like is scifi and space and games in that genre ... so , wanna whine me more, keep on [editline]29th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;50968396]To be fair, Elite's anti-cheat is abysmally bad. There's no reason for Star Citizen to cripple its online experience with something so invasive, especially when the bandwidth overhead is already massive.[/QUOTE] erm, ED has anti-cheat? maybe for the basic few :what:

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50968409]contrary to what you believe, I backed ED, SC, Shallow Space, EverSpace and dozen other space games ... do I want ED be better, yes do I want SC to be great (even if it's just Squadron 42 singleplayer which I backed in first place) do I want SC:PU to be best MMO space game with 'real-time combat' (aka not EvE) in far future, yes cause they have the funding and minds to pull it sooner than anyone else because I like is scifi and space and games in that genre ... so , wanna whine me more, keep on[/QUOTE] I posted the current Elite megathread, I certainly do like Elite, but I can recognize its failings and boy does it have a lot of them I've also watched you deride Star Citizen repeatedly, touting Elite as superior, for areas in which Elite also fails, sometimes worse You're a fanboy my dude

CIG isn't talking specific details about their anticheat plans (because that'd be info leakage), but the last I heard is a "trust but verify" model, where game clients will be trusted, but the server will still perform some calculations and tracking to make sure they're being legit; if a client is caught sending bad packets, it becomes untrusted and the server takes on processing instead, turning that particular client connection into a server-authority scenario to minimize hacking. There'll still need to be client-side anticheat to protect against fps aimbots just like any fps, but speedhacking/positionhacking/value-tweaking should be defeated by virtue of the dedicated server being able to take full authority of the session and treat the client as untrusted. However, the new netcode probably changes that strategy altogether, so, it's a big question mark. The reason Elite is so easy to cheat in is it's P2P. Anything you can trick your client into telling the others [I]is what happens[/I]. And if nothing else, you can just combat log like a coward and now your client isn't online to receive any damage that'd kill it, and because it's P2P there's literally nothing FDev can do about it unless they want to lump people with unstable connections into the same group as combat loggers and ban them all.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50968426]I posted the current Elite megathread, I certainly do like Elite, but I can recognize its failings and boy does it have a lot of them I've also watched you deride Star Citizen repeatedly, touting Elite as superior, for areas in which Elite also fails, sometimes worse You're a fanboy my dude[/QUOTE] wait I deride SC repeatedly and tout ED as superior ? that catch my interest as interesting, where did I wrote that ? excluding the fact SC isn't finished-state game even to start any fair compare in first place (do not try use this as negative point)

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50968426]I posted the current Elite megathread, I certainly do like Elite, but I can recognize its failings and boy does it have a lot of them I've also watched you deride Star Citizen repeatedly, touting Elite as superior, for areas in which Elite also fails, sometimes worse You're a fanboy my dude[/QUOTE] He's hardly derided SC - if you consider what he's said so far as derision, than you are the one being a bit myopic about your own favorite, not Dwarden. Even if his posts wander, to say the least, he's hardly attacking CIG lol

[QUOTE=paindoc;50968845]He's hardly derided SC - if you consider what he's said so far as derision, than you are the one being a bit myopic about your own favorite, not Dwarden. Even if his posts wander, to say the least, he's hardly attacking CIG lol[/QUOTE] I looked back and I think I had him confused for someone else, so -- my apologies to Dwarden.

apology accepted , you would not want hear my <extremely long list of problems, issues, failures in design, gameplay flaws and bugs in ED> cursing some of those right now while trying to play ;) naively hoping I would not find bugs in SC ;)

I think his natural tendency to winkyface and ... makes his posts look hella sarcastic/snarky, easy to take offense if overinterpreted. Still the whole anticheat thing is a bugger of a situation, they'll likely have to implement their own system of checks instead of ham-fisting some solution in, due to how open they're hoping to have its moddability down the line. I'd hate to think they'd aim for pure flagging > manual moderation checks, but given they've talked numerous times about checks for insurance fraud and griefing, I'm sure they'll have a lot of in-game factors they want to place some indicators for

As long as it's not Archeage launch tier hacking problems I think we'll be fine. That said, they're going to REALLY have to clamp down on it, because people will be rabidly pissed if hackers figure out ways to get ships they paid hundreds of bucks for without putting any work into getting them. Also could fuck with the economy.

Considering the economy's to be 90% NPC-dominated, and that'd be something they'd be monitoring on an ongoing basis, I'm sure duping exploits will both be found and will be abused too hard to hide from CIG's analysts.

[QUOTE=dai;50969372]I think his natural tendency to winkyface and ... makes his posts look hella sarcastic/snarky, easy to take offense if overinterpreted. Still the whole anticheat thing is a bugger of a situation, they'll likely have to implement their own system of checks instead of ham-fisting some solution in, due to how open they're hoping to have its moddability down the line[/QUOTE] Does the game have any anti-cheat functionality at all currently? Not that I expect there to be in an Alpha, just wondering if there is any barrier at all that filters out skiddos.

[QUOTE=Im Crimson;50969510]Does the game have any anti-cheat functionality at all currently? Not that I expect there to be in an Alpha, just wondering if there is any barrier at all that filters out skiddos.[/QUOTE] Basically, no, but with all the testing metrics they collect it's not as if they can't tell you're cheating (on review) either, and they do deal with abusive cheaters. Prior to 2.4, the client was pretty much entirely trusted, which is madness at any time other than during alpha. 2.4 moved a lot of things server-side as part of the persistence transition, but there's still plenty that's left clientside that people can and seem to abuse. (However it's hard to tell the difference between hacks and bugs sometimes, like client desyncs meaning it looks like you're hitting someone when you're not.) Prior to 2.4, you could hack your ship's XML to produce ridiculous invalid combinations, like Korro's Aurora with Super Hornet parts inappropriately glued onto mount points and invalid weapon loadouts. [t]https://i.imgur.com/lBWFT8n.jpg[/t] Korro never did more than dick around for fun but some people definitely abused XML hacking to cheat and have, like, an M50 with multiple missile racks. (This would've also stuck out to CIG like a sore thumb if they bothered to comb the logs for exploiters that closely.) RIP Sombrora

I still need to finish that... thing...

[QUOTE=Visorak06;50969494]As long as it's not Archeage launch tier hacking problems[/QUOTE] that was more because the game had released 3(?) years prior in korea, and the launch version we got here was a years-outdated build from when they started the western conversion. The hacks that were in the old build had since been patched out of the original, but because they were well known and implemented back in the day, people could just dive right into the old, proven hacking tools

[MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhOjHXrnXUQ[/MEDIA] That's actually sped up, the Aurora's maneuvering thrusters suuuuuck.

[QUOTE=dai;50969659]that was more because the game had released 3(?) years prior in korea, and the launch version we got here was a years-outdated build from when they started the western conversion. The hacks that were in the old build had since been patched out of the original, but because they were well known and implemented back in the day, people could just dive right into the old, proven hacking tools[/QUOTE] I was under the impression they had basically zero anti cheat because in korea you had to give what is effectively your social security number meaning if you got banned, that was it. I mean the exploits people found weren't even hacks half the time, the server would flat out trust client data for stuff like vendor trashing, you could just tell it "the vendor is giving me $999999 for this item" and the server would just go yeah ok and do it.

[QUOTE=archival;50970712]I was under the impression they had basically zero anti cheat because in korea you had to give what is effectively your social security number meaning if you got banned, that was it. I mean the exploits people found weren't even hacks half the time, the server would flat out trust client data for stuff like vendor trashing, you could just tell it "the vendor is giving me $999999 for this item" and the server would just go yeah ok and do it.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there were a lot of hilarious exploits like that due to different service handling, but the majority of the problems directly felt by the playerbase was that all of the exploits for that build of the game had been thoroughly documented years prior, and nothing was done to patch up the holes before handing it over. It was a massacre of flying bots. I remember when they opened up the new continent with tons of housing land, despite being a good while into the release here, [I]it was colonized by bots in seconds[/I]. Impressive if anything

Neither Trion nor XL cared about it at all, they did bare minimum. iirc Trion finally started cracking down on hacks/cheats with their own program ~february but prior to that 90% of cheats still worked no problem. Most still worked after the fact as well. Hell even the cheat makers literally said: This could easily be prevented, but they have no clue what they're doing(xl)

[QUOTE=dai;50970751]I'm sure there were a lot of hilarious exploits like that due to different service handling, but the majority of the problems directly felt by the playerbase was that all of the exploits for that build of the game had been thoroughly documented years prior, and nothing was done to patch up the holes before handing it over. It was a massacre of flying bots. I remember when they opened up the new continent with tons of housing land, despite being a good while into the release here, [I]it was colonized by bots in seconds[/I]. Impressive if anything[/QUOTE] Thats actually why me and all of my mates stopped playing, we'd actually formed a really large guild and were planning on nabbing some land there.

[QUOTE=Dwarden;50968166]someone in this era believes this ? been there, did that, seen it fail, never again ...[/QUOTE] It was sarcasm. Banlists run by self-elected public members are already a terrible idea, I added 'punkbuster' for emphasis And why do you have such a boner for BattlEye? I think it's terrible, I can barely play ARMA 2 online for extended periods because my area has good ping but occasional massive spikes in packet loss for a few seconds. Constantly getting kicked is just frustrating, especially when I just wanna play with some friends on an empty public server

The great land grab and hasla stage 2 weapons were the death blows to archeage's popularity imo. Gutted the big guilds, and also murdered an entire market.

I remember being part of the new land rush. My guild managed to claim some land but immediately, houses went up. And the day they introduced thunder logs to the shop was terrible.

Hey, fellas. Can we get the discussion back on topic? I keep seeing new posts, checking back, and people are talking about a totally different game :v:

[QUOTE=archangel125;50972048]Hey, fellas. Can we get the discussion back on topic? I keep seeing new posts, checking back, and people are talking about a totally different game :v:[/QUOTE] slightly applicable, claiming land plots. I don't think we'd face the problem of bots claiming every inch of habitable land but damn imagine the weird hacks people will figure out that aren't pvp-oriented