Star Citizen Megathread - Star Marine isn't doomed after all!

[dreukrag]

Are there any space B17 planned to appear in the game? Having bugger ships rely on turrets would force them to revisit them. As much as I enjoyed the firepower on my constellation it didnt feel right to be dogfighting on the thing. Specially since it made the turrets and snubfighter redundant

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=dreukrag;51401624]Are there any space B17 planned to appear in the game? Having bugger ships rely on turrets would force them to revisit them. As much as I enjoyed the firepower on my constellation it didnt feel right to be dogfighting on the thing. Specially since it made the turrets and snubfighter redundant[/QUOTE]
Aren't they planning a reworking of the flight model? Maybe they'll make those ships less agile.

[Mai]

[QUOTE=dreukrag;51401624]Are there any space B17 planned to appear in the game?[/QUOTE]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/13lWtt0.jpg[/t]

you probably haven't seen any because it's an excessively buggy (even by SC standards) piece of shit that nobody cares to pull

[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]

and yes, the turrets are completely useless and the only weapons it has besides the incredibly buggy (seriously, half the time they don't deploy correctly and you just end up hitting yourself) anticapital torpedoes

[Capgun]

[QUOTE=the_killer24;51401657][t]http://i.imgur.com/13lWtt0.jpg[/t]

you probably haven't seen any because it's an excessively buggy (even by SC standards) piece of shit that nobody cares to pull

[editline]20th November 2016[/editline]

and yes, the turrets are completely useless and the only weapons it has besides the incredibly buggy (seriously, half the time they don't deploy correctly and you just end up hitting yourself) anticapital torpedoes[/QUOTE]

As someone who owns and loves the overall style of the Tali...this.

[Why485]

[QUOTE=dai;51401493]A great example people are sure to have experience with in the past few weeks is gunning for a bomber in battlefield 1. The pilot has a big, lumbering plane and focuses on his objective of doing bombing runs. A tail gunner has a smooth ride 75% of the time because your plane isn't flopping all over the place, and any plane looking to shoot you down naturally ends up flying pretty smoothly behind you, making it super easy to just lay into them. THIS is how turret gunning should be handled, as part of a chase, not a scrambling dogfight.[/QUOTE]

The relative speeds involved are also a big part of why it works in BF1 and not Star Citizen. Everything is much faster, and much more maneuverable in Star Citizen, meaning even if you did have good controls it would still be extremely difficult to hit anything.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51401398]I've seen people say that manning turrets isn't fun gameplay-wise, why is that? Haven't played the alpha since the launch of Arena Commander.[/QUOTE]

Anyway, turrets are something I've written at length about in the past, because it's one of my many peeves with Star Citizen's "spend 6 months implementing before you think" design philosophy. Instead of just repeating myself for the umpteenth time, here's a copy paste from a previous post.

[quote]I want the manned turret meme to die.

There is literally no reason to have a human in a turret in Star Citizen. The only way a human manned turret could possibly be superior to an NPC manned turret would be if NPCs are gimped beyond belief, to the point where they’re effectively useless.

It’s not fun. The controls are garbage. Even if the controls weren’t garbage, the simple nature of [I]how[/I] ships fly in Star Citizen makes hitting targets in a manned turret difficult beyond the point of reason. It’s an exercise in frustration and nothing more. Once you get over the “lol Star Wars just like Han and Luke” it’s an aspect of the game that has no positive contribution to the game.

By the way, the Millenium Falcon was effectively stationary in that sequence. That’s the only way a turret in SC will hit something. You either make yourself a sitting duck by flying very slowly so your turrets can have a snowballs chance in hell to hit a target, or you maneuver and make yourself scarce but completely nullify the point of having a turret in the first place.

I really do feel like too many people, including Chris, are obsessed with the fantasy of sitting in a turret. No matter how cool they [I]think[/I] it is, I just don’t know how manned turrets can ever be remotely effective with the way the ships in Star Citizen move, nor at the speeds they move at. They’re simply far too maneuverable to make manned turrets practical.

So what [I]should[/I] happen? I don’t want to get rid of turrets. I love turrets and think they’re really damn cool, but something has to change.

Here’s how it should work: Your copilot, or maybe even a specialized seat, should control the turrets in the sense of prioritizing targets and assigning different duties/targets to turrets. The actual aiming of the turret is done by the ship’s computer, and its accuracy could conceivably be tied to ship components, and be interfered with by as yet unspecified EWAR mechanics and equipment. Having a copilot who knows what targets to prioritize, with what turrets, and when, will be where the skill in turret operation lies.

That’s both much more effective, and much more interesting than your sole purpose being putting a crosshair on a wildly maneuvering and spinning target while inside a wildly spinning and maneuvering ship.

If they really, [I]really[/I] want to keep manned turrets in, they should be the exception rather than the rule, and found only on cheap ships where combat isn’t the primary purpose. The rear gun on the Freelancer is a good example of an appropriate manned turret because it’s just some garbage thing put on there by MISC to make transport pilots feel a little safer.

What’s especially annoying is that I’ve been expecting these problems for years. Ever since the reveal of the Constellation, and long before SC was even playable. Turrets are garbage for [I]exactly[/I] the reasons I expected them to be. This problem could have been avoided entirely by being smart about how turrets should operate and thinking ahead.[/quote]

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=Why485;51402187]Anyway, turrets are something I've written at length about in the past, because it's one of my many peeves with Star Citizen's "spend 6 months implementing before you think" design philosophy. Instead of just repeating myself for the umpteenth time, here's a copy paste from a previous post.[/QUOTE]
All the problems you mention about having manned turrets can be solved by having the turret's rotation be stable relative to a fixed referential though. That way the rotation of the ship itself wouldn't have any influence on your aim save for the available firing arc.
The co-pilot is a good alternative too but I don't see why we couldn't have both.

[krail]

yeah those are really good points but it sounds more like 'turrets aren't as good as people think' rather than 'turrets will never work'

have the turret seamlessly account for the ship's changing attitude and let the gunner move the turret with no lag or smoothing whatsoever, I bet it will both feel good and be totally viable, especially if/when they calm down the movement on the larger ships

[editline]21st November 2016[/editline]

add turrets to your space sim thingy so you can show us how its done :v:

[Why485]

[QUOTE=_Axel;51402315]All the problems you mention about having manned turrets can be solved by having the turret's rotation be stable relative to a fixed referential though. That way the rotation of the ship itself wouldn't have any influence on your aim save for the available firing arc.
The co-pilot is a good alternative too but I don't see why we couldn't have both.[/QUOTE]

They already do. You can even turn it on and off with a keybind, at least on some ships anyway. The problem is that's not good enough and aiming is really clunky for reasons outside of just stabilization.

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=Why485;51402625]They already do. You can even turn it on and off with a keybind, at least on some ships anyway. The problem is that's not good enough and aiming is really clunky for reasons outside of just stabilization.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand how they can pull off clunky turret controls, tons of game do it decently already. Is it not directly taking the mouse input?

[Mai]

nope, you know the interactive (freelancer-like) flight mode in ships?

it's kinda like that in turrets

PRAISE BE TO CHRIST ROBERTS

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=the_killer24;51402754]nope, you know the interactive (freelancer-like) flight mode in ships?[/QUOTE]
No, what's that?

[Mai]

int mode is the mode that people flew with at AC launch, the gimbaled free targeting mode

but thinking about it it's like a 10000x worse version of War Thunder mouse aim in the turrets, really

[AxeI]

I don't see how that relates to turrets not being a good idea ever then, they just need to make a control model that's not shit i.e. standard FPS controls.

[Why485]

[QUOTE=_Axel;51402777]I don't see how that relates to turrets not being a good idea ever then, they just need to make a control model that's not shit i.e. standard FPS controls.[/QUOTE]

Yeah well, this is a company that spent over a year trying to mimic the ARMA FPS setup, realizing that it sucked only after they finished it, and then took another year to engineer a layer on top of it so that it would feel like a normal first person shooter.

[AxeI]

[QUOTE=Why485;51403021]Yeah well, this is a company that spent over a year trying to mimic the ARMA FPS setup, realizing that it sucked only after they finished it, and then took another year to engineer a layer on top of it so that it would feel like a normal first person shooter.[/QUOTE]
Maybe after a couple of years of trying to accurately simulate the inner machinery of turrets they'll do like they did with the flight model and tweak its physical properties to completely unrealistic levels only to go back to standard aiming :v:

[Bradyns]

Anyone else get an email about a survey?

[jonoPorter]

[IMG]https://my.mixtape.moe/vpimrj.PNG[/IMG]

[editline]24th November 2016[/editline]

no offense bradyns don't ban pls

[elix]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ABladDu.png[/IMG]

It's about the new launcher. Reminder that the new launcher should include the long-awaited delta patching. [U]Should.[/U]

[URL="https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15613-Esperia-Prowler-Q-A-Part-1"]Prowler Q&A #1 is up[/URL]

[video=youtube;3rcWkqliP6A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rcWkqliP6A[/video]

[video=youtube;9B8Ty1dJafM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B8Ty1dJafM[/video]

[AxeI]

Damn not-Jeremy-Clarkson from the Galactic Tour videos looks really inhuman, and I don't say that just because he's British.

[DokVis]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51423115]

It's about the new launcher. Reminder that the new launcher should include the long-awaited delta patching. [U]Should.[/U]
[/QUOTE]

PLEASE BE DELTA PATCHING I DONT WANT MY INTERNET TO DIE JUST FOR 2 HOURS TO DOWNLOAD

[Raidyr]

At one point I used the cross-chassis upgrade feature in the hangar to turn the Aurora MR I got with the Arena Commander Starter Pack into a Mustang Alpha. Is there a way to reverse this because as far as I can tell it's not possible because the MR is worth less than the Alpha.

Related: if I exchange the arena commander starter pack for store credits, does that mean I'm no longer able to access the game as it is right now?

[Mai]

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51425310]At one point I used the cross-chassis upgrade feature in the hangar to turn the Aurora MR I got with the Arena Commander Starter Pack into a Mustang Alpha. Is there a way to reverse this because as far as I can tell it's not possible because the MR is worth less than the Alpha.

Related: if I exchange the arena commander starter pack for store credits, does that mean I'm no longer able to access the game as it is right now?[/QUOTE]

LX if/when it goes on sale (probably Saturday) but not the MR, and if it's your only package, yes

[Bradyns]

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;51422601][IMG]https://my.mixtape.moe/vpimrj.PNG[/IMG]

[editline]24th November 2016[/editline]

no offense bradyns don't ban pls[/QUOTE]

You cheeky bastard. :v:

[Raidyr]

[QUOTE=the_killer24;51425483]LX if/when it goes on sale (probably Saturday) but not the MR, and if it's your only package, yes[/QUOTE]

Think I'll keep the package but might upgrade to the Avenger Titan at some point.

How is performance? Did they ever fix the issue where server lag contributed to low FPS? I'll be honest I forget that I even own SC for months at a time so I haven't been following it :v:

[elix]

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51428631]Did they ever fix the issue where server lag contributed to low FPS? I'll be honest I forget that I even own SC for months at a time so I haven't been following it :v:[/QUOTE]
No, not yet; however, we're still on 2.5; 2.6 is imminent (but isn't scheduled to solve the server lag), and from there they can move to 3.0 and [I]hopefully[/I] tackle that problem.

[ithon]

what's with all of this galatic expo ad videos from SC? is it leading to something?

[krail]

[QUOTE=Ithon;51428800]what's with all of this galatic expo ad videos from SC? is it leading to something?[/QUOTE]

the anniversary sale is on atm, they introduce the ships that are available each day

[url]https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15616-Intergalactic-Aerospace-Expo-Day-Eight-Aegis-Dynamics[/url]

[elix]

Yeah, basically. They decided to make the anniversary sale an in-lore "airshow" of spaceships with the little per-manufacturer (and misfits day) bumpers starring not-Jeremy-Clarkson the creepy animated action figure.

[elix]

[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5fgi94/behind_the_scenes_of_starnetwork10_found_some/"]Guy on Reddit puts in a bunch of effort and moooore or less conclusively proves the solid guess I had that libyojimbo is in some way key to StarNetwork 1.0.[/URL] libyojimbo is a netcode framework to build game server communication protocols on, so it'll be interesting to see how CIG have used it to build a solution.

[video=youtube;qKH1B1p9TgM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKH1B1p9TgM[/video]

I will never not post a Tony Z conversation. I could listen to this man every day.

[video=youtube;XFJHcFsvFmc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFJHcFsvFmc[/video]

[video=youtube;bmv6iS5tFeA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmv6iS5tFeA[/video]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qiuuXHx.png[/IMG]
CIG shows that it's best in class with build security yet again. This Reddit post's been deleted because it explained how to download 2.6 (which should be NDA'd and only for Evocati). It appears that CIG has probably broken the URLs to stop the leakage, but obviously not in time to stop /vg/ from grabbing copies. TL;DR everyone's live 2.5 launcher synched its config files with the Evocati PTU build's uncredentialed download path even if it only exposes it in the UI to people with the Evocati account token.

So, expect more 2.6 offline-hack leak videos like this:

[video=youtube;EU311gOYS0Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU311gOYS0Y[/video]

Also, as usual, guess who's talking shit and being disproven almost immediately. This is on the Frontier forums, btw.
[vid]https://i.imgur.com/Og8f5nz.mp4[/vid]

(Look at the radar)

[Techbot]

some new (to me) music I found

homestead music (planets v2 demo)
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/435248446.ogg[/vid]

[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/29870296.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/495362953.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/43824788.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/49904296.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/1064972396.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/1024182323.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/857416375.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/543152000.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/774844938.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/1006822092.ogg[/vid]

now these one sounds completely different and new (alien music maybe?)
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/165261825.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/205918589.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/912345670.ogg[/vid]

probably star marine stuff
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/MXMS_SM_FPS10001.ogg[/vid]
[vid]http://techbot.xyz/ShareX/file/2016/12/02/MXMS_SM_FPS10002.ogg[/vid]

sorry for the spam