D&D V6 - Edition jokes don't really make sense anymore - Games

[QUOTE=slayer20;52611352]If I cast a spell that requires me to make a melee weapon attack (such as Green Flame Blade), would I be able to gain advantage on that attack (such as from Faerie Fire)? Also, would I get sneak attack damage on said attack if sneak attack conditions are met? [editline]25th August 2017[/editline] I would assume so, but the PHB doesn't specifically bring this example up, however from page 194: [editline]25th August 2017[/editline] I guess the Green Flame Blade description also states[/QUOTE] Faerie Fire benefits any kind of attack roll, including spell attacks (fire bolt, spiritual weapon, etc. - any kind of spell that uses an attack roll). Sneak Attack requires a melee finesse or ranged weapon attack, so it'll work with Green Flame Blade but not other spell attacks.

Yea, the sneak attack and advantage would trigger on the normal attack hitting and it's effects. GFB is just another additional effect you stack onto that, so while it still goes off, you couldn't sneak attack someone aside from your original target with it

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;52604338]Playing my first DnD game tonight! I'm going to be playing as a tank cleric named Azrael Voklan. He was a cleric of Pelor that was tricked by a Pelor hating priest along with several other clerics to desecrate a minor jokester gods altar. The trickster god cursed Voklan (and the others) to gradually rot away as he lives, so he's basically just transforming into a living not-quite corpse. He constantly wears this masked armor to hide his visage away. It'll be interesting to play out in this campaign because we're mostly fighting the undead for it so as his condition gets worse it'll start to effect how he's seen by others outside of the party. He's very heavily based on the Leper from Darkest Dungeon. [Img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/559617e43a7d803c70da8ad2751f2abf/tumblr_odzuebvsR31uy9ftno1_500.png[/img] Any good tips you guys might have for a first timer? All of my know how comes from listening to DnD podcasts and I'm playing with people I don't exactly know. If anything my own friend is gonna be playing and helping me along too. I'm super excited to finally give DnD a try.[/QUOTE] I dont wanna be a downer but Remove Curse is a 3rd level spell. So as soon as you hit level 5 you can get yourself back to tip top shape.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52614029]I dont wanna be a downer but Remove Curse is a 3rd level spell. So as soon as you hit level 5 you can get yourself back to tip top shape.[/QUOTE] Yes, because a curse bestowed by a GOD is that easy to remove. OK. Fuck 5e, and the thinking that makes this sound like it's actually true, remotely. Curses, diseases, poisons, pretty much everything is fucking worthless and negated by fairly easy to get means. I really hate that shit.

[QUOTE=Chronische;52614043]Yes, because a curse bestowed by a GOD is that easy to remove. OK. Fuck 5e, and the thinking that makes this sound like it's actually true, remotely. Curses, diseases, poisons, pretty much everything is fucking worthless and negated by fairly easy to get means. I really hate that shit.[/QUOTE] Has nothing to do with 5e. Also they aren't "worthless" cause the DM could make them not work on the Curse. It's like how a certain NPC on a game i've watched had a soul curse and curse curing spells did not remove it. It's not hard to make something not easily curable when you're the DM. As long as it pertains to the story and isn't just "oh you aren't cured cause I said so". It's probably not hard to come up with an in world reason for it too. For example "The curse also makes it that Restoration spells do not work on said person or certain abjurations spell don't work." So IF someone tried to use it on said person the curse couldn't be removed cause the curse blocks those spells completely. Of course the DM would have to balance the whole "abjuration" spell immunity so they aren't immune to all damaging spells from that school if there is any.

[QUOTE=SeymourGuado;52614233]Has nothing to do with 5e. Also they aren't "worthless" cause the DM could make them not work on the Curse. It's like how a certain NPC on a game i've watched had a soul curse and curse curing spells did not remove it. It's not hard to make something not easily curable when you're the DM. As long as it pertains to the story and isn't just "oh you aren't cured cause I said so". It's probably not hard to come up with a in world reason for it.[/QUOTE] Lycanthropy, mummy rot, health drain, all that stuff used to require extremely potent cures. Now? A level 2 paladin poking you makes a lot of it go away, and what they can't poof a level 3 spell slot cast once will do. And, as I said in the post, GM can fiat whatever they want, it's the attitude of the game brought on by the wording and mechanics presented. The implication of the wording of remove curse "ALL curses affecting one creature or object end" is pretty clear, so as GM you're going against the rules (which of course you can do, but a bit more vagueness would be appreciated.) And it's not unique to that, in that nearly every issue goes away on a long rest making every single thing into a 24 hour problem at best... unless it's a GM fiat special curse or disease or what have you. The encounter balance per day stinks, the CR chart is practically worthless, and nothing feels like a threat unless it vastly overpowers you since raising someone to 1 hp is extremely easy and has no consequences in the core rules. The amount of homebrewing required to turn 5e into anything more than an introductory set of rules is ridiculous.

[QUOTE=Yahnich;52614255]can't you just tell them to fuck off as the DM, that's how I usually roll if my players try to weasel out of stuff "its a curse applied by a primordial being, you can't just voodoo it away with a simple spell"[/QUOTE] In that case yes, but what about a potent wizard? There's no difference between a 9th level slot curse and a cantrip 'curse', the wording is put in such a way that the GM has to say "No, it doesn't work that way for this one ;)" each time, which gets frustrating as a player. Lycanthropy is a joke, disease is pathetic, poison (as in, the poisoned status, not poison damage which tends to be pretty high actually) is pathetic, life drain is pathetic in how it's implemented (you'll never die to it since it has to actually go over your max hp, which just isn't gonna happen the way it's worded), so much shit is way nerfed into nearly being useless in 5e. It gives players chances to FEEL like badasses for killing dragons, vampires, or whatever but it all feels like a demo for ANY prior edition as far as a real step up in difficulty goes.

[QUOTE=Chronische;52614248]Lycanthropy, mummy rot, health drain, all that stuff used to require extremely potent cures. Now? A level 2 paladin poking you makes a lot of it go away, and what they can't poof a level 3 spell slot cast once will do. And, as I said in the post, GM can fiat whatever they want, it's the attitude of the game brought on by the wording and mechanics presented. The implication of the wording of remove curse "ALL curses affecting one creature or object end" is pretty clear, so as GM you're going against the rules (which of course you can do, but a bit more vagueness would be appreciated.) And it's not unique to that, in that nearly every issue goes away on a long rest making every single thing into a 24 hour problem at best... unless it's a GM fiat special curse or disease or what have you. The encounter balance per day stinks, the CR chart is practically worthless, and nothing feels like a threat unless it vastly overpowers you since raising someone to 1 hp is extremely easy and has no consequences in the core rules. The amount of homebrewing required to turn 5e into anything more than an introductory set of rules is ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Again the encounter balance is based on the DM. Also how is it "easy" to get someone to 1hp?. More than likely once you do get them back up whatever enemy is around them is just gonna knock them back down unless you heal really good(also cause they wake up prone so any melee characters is just gonna destroy them unless they have good armor). Turn order can get you in the butt if the enemy goes before the person after you heal them. 3 of the ways to even get the person up require touch/feeding a potion so you'd have to get into enemy range to heal them. Sure healing word is a thing but again unless their turn comes before the enemy they could just get knocked down again. So no I wouldn't really call it "extremely easy".

[QUOTE=Chronische;52614043]Yes, because a curse bestowed by a GOD is that easy to remove. OK. Fuck 5e, and the thinking that makes this sound like it's actually true, remotely. Curses, diseases, poisons, pretty much everything is fucking worthless and negated by fairly easy to get means. I really hate that shit.[/QUOTE] This has always been the case for Forgotten Realms/any world where magic is plentiful. People in those worlds live in a fucking utopia without diseases of any kind, food is cheap as all hell, and where you can be resurrected if you have enough money, or just know the right people. If he's playing in a darker setting, then by all means feel free to ignore Remove Curse/Cure Disease/Create Food and Water. But in D&D those aren't things players should have to worry about.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52614289]This has always been the case for Forgotten Realms/any world where magic is plentiful. People in those worlds live in a fucking utopia without diseases of any kind, food is cheap as all hell, and where you can be resurrected if you have enough money, or just know the right people. If he's playing in a darker setting, then by all means feel free to ignore Remove Curse/Cure Disease/Create Food and Water. But in D&D those aren't things players should have to worry about.[/QUOTE] That's not even true in FR. Yes, there are powerful beings but why the hell are they gonna help YOU? If they spent all their time helping people in need they'd get nothing done, use up all their resources, and get murdered by the many MANY more evil things that flood the world on a regular basis in that hellhole of a setting. Food only seems cheap when PCs tend to be packing 10s or 100s of gold. It's still pricy for the average person. Resurrection requires knowing the right person REGARDLESS of money, and I kind of doubt that most low level scrubs do know anyone like that. 'then by all means feel free to ignore Remove Curse/Cure Disease/Create Food and Water. But in D&D those aren't things players should have to worry about.' This in particular is offensive on SO MANY levels. "Players shouldn't have to worry about food, light, water disease, curses, dying, danger, or anything! It should be a cakewalk!" That's stupid as hell, and the main reason I dumped 5e like a ton of bricks.

[QUOTE=Chronische;52614295]That's not even true in FR. Yes, there are powerful beings but why the hell are they gonna help YOU? If they spent all their time helping people in need they'd get nothing done, use up all their resources, and get murdered by the many MANY more evil things that flood the world on a regular basis in that hellhole of a setting. Food only seems cheap when PCs tend to be packing 10s or 100s of gold. It's still pricy for the average person. Resurrection requires knowing the right person REGARDLESS of money, and I kind of doubt that most low level scrubs do know anyone like that. 'then by all means feel free to ignore Remove Curse/Cure Disease/Create Food and Water. But in D&D those aren't things players should have to worry about.' This in particular is offensive on SO MANY levels. "Players shouldn't have to worry about food, light, water disease, curses, dying, danger, or anything! It should be a cakewalk!" That's stupid as hell, and the main reason I dumped 5e like a ton of bricks.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, hahaha, how is that 'offensive'? It's the fucking same thing as in 3.5. Create Food and Water, Remove Curse, and Remove Disease are all 3rd level cleric spells, IE, any party with a 5th level Cleric doesn't have to worry about them. So get off your edition elitism high horse.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52614300]Holy shit, hahaha, how is that 'offensive'? It's the fucking same thing as in 3.5. Create Food and Water, Remove Curse, and Remove Disease are all 3rd level cleric spells, IE, any party with a 5th level Cleric doesn't have to worry about them. So get off your edition elitism high horse, bud.[/QUOTE] And 3e was shit too, and I doubt there's many here who'd dispute that for numerous reasons. Level 5 in 5e you can reach within around 6 sessions using the standard track, maybe a little more or less. Quite a lot shorter than in 3e, even. Remove Curse in 3e required a caster check, not being automatic on all curses you had. Diseases were utter trash in 3e. Create Food and Water as a 3rd level spell is fine, though there's easier ways to get infinite water and food (the Outlander background is horrible in that regard). It all removes any sense of urgency as far as resources go - it's all designed so you can clear a dungeon in a day or less, tailored for that even due to the daily encounter design. The game is flawed down to the core, and serves as a fine introduction but literally EVERY prior edition is better than 5e for at least something, if not most things.

[QUOTE=Chronische;52614314]And 3e was shit too, and I doubt there's many here who'd dispute that for numerous reasons. Level 5 in 5e you can reach within around 6 sessions using the standard track, maybe a little more or less. Quite a lot shorter than in 3e, even. Remove Curse in 3e required a caster check, not being automatic on all curses you had. Diseases were utter trash in 3e. Create Food and Water as a 3rd level spell is fine, though there's easier ways to get infinite water and food (the Outlander background is horrible in that regard). It all removes any sense of urgency as far as resources go - it's all designed so you can clear a dungeon in a day or less, tailored for that even due to the daily encounter design. The game is flawed down to the core, and serves as a fine introduction but literally EVERY prior edition is better than 5e for at least something, if not most things.[/QUOTE] I checked, and it's the same thing for 2e and even fucking 1e. So unless you're saying D&D itself is shit, please stop with the edition elitism. Also, you're missing the point entirely. It's not about how long it takes you to become a novice cleric, it's about the fact that novice clerics across the board have always been able to cast those spells. And what you just said is not true. It isn't a caster check in 3E. The check is if the target wants to [i]negate[/i] remove curse, which wouldn't happen. I literally do not care about which edition is better, but you're comparing editions based off of preconceived notions which are false.

Level 5 took forever to reach, and most never really get that far. Level 9 in older editions was Lord level, where you basically retire your character as a ruler (that includes priests and thieves, who would run temples and guilds). Not that you HAD to retire, but level 5 was damned significant back then, not to mention Create Food & Water was not universally available. Creation isn't the most common sphere, and by the time you have it you should presumably not be dealing with starvation on a regular basis. So, your first point, that level 5 is novice? Wrong. Your second, that 'all clerics have always been able to cast them'? Also wrong. Back to Remove Curse, the wording in 2e in particular specifies that it is 'usually' able to remove a curse, and specifies you need to be of the same level or higher to remove many curses. It also specifies a really high level to remove lycanthropy, in particular, as opposed to being automatic at level 5 (which is about when you could reasonably handle more than a single werewolf in any event). I'm comparing editions based on having played all of them, and 5e feels the shittiest. It is 2nd best at everything it tries to do, at best.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;52614029]I dont wanna be a downer but Remove Curse is a 3rd level spell. So as soon as you hit level 5 you can get yourself back to tip top shape.[/QUOTE] I actually accounted for this, because my friend pointed it out to me. It was cast to be incurable by any means other than that god themself. No spell, remove curse, or heal can effect it. It also forces the victim to live through the effects of the curse until it decides itself over. I've had people ask me, "So he's undead?", to which my answer is no. He is very much alive during the entire process. He's a shining altruist cleric cursed to lose his friendly and trusting presence. People see him and the damage the curse has wraught on him and they flee in fear. Undead hunters immediately target him thinking he's undead. It's his own personal hell. He was once a beacon of hope to the weak and powerless who is now seen with hatred and fear. He hides himself behind his mask and slowly loses himself to his rising panic. His armor is not just meant to hide his curse from others but is also meant to hide his own fear by showing himself what he once was. He is meant to become increasingly despondant and eventually begin to waver in his duty until he could eventually give up to let the curse win. The friendships he makes within the party is all that keeps him struggling to live, if only for their sakes. He feels personally responsible for the lives of his impromptu allies. His only hope of cure is to hunt the priest that orchestrated this and redeem himself in the eyes of the god that cursed him. It's why he sets off to adventure. Realistically, it's all for backstory and aesthetics. I wrote what I thought would be an interesting character and put what safeblocks I could to prevent it from being easily remedied. At least for the sake of character development that is.

Hypothetical D&D 5e situation; Adventuring party fights bad guys. All the adventurers fall in battle and die, however one adventurer has a magical item that stabilizes them at 0hp upon falling unconscious. Since they are no longer dying, assuming the bad guys they fought just leave the bodies as is, would that adventurer regain health after a "long rest"?

[QUOTE=slayer20;52615881]Hypothetical D&D 5e situation; Adventuring party fights bad guys. All the adventurers fall in battle and die, however one adventurer has a magical item that stabilizes them at 0hp upon falling unconscious. Since they are no longer dying, assuming the bad guys they fought just leave the bodies as is, would that adventurer regain health after a "long rest"?[/QUOTE] Don't see why not. Magic item keeps them from dying, they'd still be unconscious If it was me, and if they where not receiving medical treatment and just lying on a dirty floor for 6 or so hours they could get half their max HP when they woke up.

[QUOTE=slayer20;52615881]Hypothetical D&D 5e situation; Adventuring party fights bad guys. All the adventurers fall in battle and die, however one adventurer has a magical item that stabilizes them at 0hp upon falling unconscious. Since they are no longer dying, assuming the bad guys they fought just leave the bodies as is, would that adventurer regain health after a "long rest"?[/QUOTE] If you stabilize, you get up and can start acting again after an hour (in 5e), and from there can rest normally

If they're stable, then yes, they'll recover after a period of time. At least as far as I'm aware. Wow, double ninja.

Unreleated : Good old DRAGONBORN MONK grapples a werewolf from behind. He uses both arms to keep his eyes closed and choke it. He then gets attacked by another werewolf from another angle And because he has points in fighter now he countered the attack then used his fighter abilities to attack him too (riposte/parry I think) but because both his hand where already in use grappling the werewolf he argued he could use his quarterstaff in his feet instead. I let him, but he had to lose his proficiency bonus. Also My party does the tried and tested tank/healer/dps role that is standard with all rpg games For some reason it went to fucking pot when they encountered another team doing the exact same thing. They just kept attacking the enemy tank and ignored the healer, tried to run every time the DPS got close and ended up attacking the tank again I think my players are sentient WoW mobs

Shoulda let him hit the werewolf with the other werewolf, though foot-swung quarterstaff is also great.

[QUOTE=DarkMonkey;52616757]Shoulda let him hit the werewolf with the other werewolf, though foot-swung quarterstaff is also great.[/QUOTE] This, it's the best reason TO grapple!

I've been having lots of annoyances Gming lately, namely because i make up joke characters for session, and my party always focuses on them. I don't mind, i quite like it actually but its still irritating when they've passed enough persuasion checks on my magical Vampire tour guide, voiced in the style of Ed Wynn, that i now have to make him join the crew. [sp]he got lessons to lose his accent 3 sessions later.[/sp] Our Sorcerer sent me this today even: [t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/248219332931354624/351321416605630464/image.jpg[/t]

I TPK'd my entire party today. I decided that the hobgoblins took them prisoners instead of slitting their throats, cuz slaves. But ironically they lost to the easiest encounter in the dungeon, after crushing the hardest just before without breaking a sweat. They got cocky and did not "geek the mage" to use shadowrun terms. Cue fly and 3 fireballs from a hobgoblin devastator with war casting and arcane advantage (2d6 extra damage on spells that do damage, including aoe if an ally within 5 feet of target), an the party was weakened enough that the unlucky rolls they got made them lose the fight.

[QUOTE=IAmAnooB;52619796]I TPK'd my entire party today. I decided that the hobgoblins took them prisoners instead of slitting their throats, cuz slaves. But ironically they lost to the easiest encounter in the dungeon, after crushing the hardest just before without breaking a sweat. They got cocky and did not "geek the mage" to use shadowrun terms. Cue fly and 3 fireballs from a hobgoblin devastator with war casting and arcane advantage (2d6 extra damage on spells that do damage, including aoe if an ally within 5 feet of target), an the party was weakened enough that the unlucky rolls they got made them lose the fight.[/QUOTE] Hobgoblins are boss - they should totally be used as shock troops against another tribe, or offered freedom as bondsmen or something if they do some cool shit. Sounds like your game is in for some real fun, unless you just want to give them a 1 session prisonbreak deal.

[QUOTE=Chronische;52619888]Hobgoblins are boss - they should totally be used as shock troops against another tribe, or offered freedom as bondsmen or something if they do some cool shit. Sounds like your game is in for some real fun, unless you just want to give them a 1 session prisonbreak deal.[/QUOTE] So the encounter they lost to was: 1 Hobgoblin Devastator (CR 4) 4 Shitty 1/2 CR Hobgoblins 1 Veteran Hobgoblin (my own creation, stronger standard hobgoblins, CR 3) 1 Hobgoblin Captain (health boosted and to hit boosted so from CR 3 to CR 4) As a 4 member level 9 party, Arcane Trickster Half-Elf Rogue with really strong magical weapons, Birdperson Bard with counterspell, Tiefling Druid (circle of the moon) and Human Crossbowmaster hunter ranger. After the Devastator nuked the shit out of them, the consistent shitty rolls the party got made them lose the fight. They were on a quest to resurrect 1 of the 2 dead party members, this time the paladin that gained the slight favor of Bahamut in the form of a sword and this is a dungeon called "Well of Dragons" and the hobgoblins have taken base up in it, as their leader has a dragon as his adviser. My current idea is that the hobgoblins will literally use them to explore parts of the dungeon that the hobgoblins haven't entered yet to "see if there's any traps". I'm very open to ideas but I'd probably not want to take them away from the dungeon right now.

[QUOTE=jackattack;52618863] Our Sorcerer sent me this today even: [t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/248219332931354624/351321416605630464/image.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] This is so true it hurts. I felt that a big manor the evil people lived in, in my campaign would have had butlers or maids so I just dropped in this random human maid with absolutely no thought or planning. She cleans shit and cooks stuff would be the only thing she'd ever be known for in her life. [B]NOW HOWEVER[/B] Thanks to the player's, she lived in a nice house that got burned down by the nobles because she tried to expose them, is in a relationship with a player (Garston) and a mysterious third party that wants to kidnap her to force her into slavery/human trafficking/whoring/organ selling She was just meant to clean fucking plates.

[QUOTE=IAmAnooB;52619931]So the encounter they lost to was: 1 Hobgoblin Devastator (CR 4) 4 Shitty 1/2 CR Hobgoblins 1 Veteran Hobgoblin (my own creation, stronger standard hobgoblins, CR 3) 1 Hobgoblin Captain (health boosted and to hit boosted so from CR 3 to CR 4) As a 4 member level 9 party, Arcane Trickster Half-Elf Rogue with really strong magical weapons, Birdperson Bard with counterspell, Tiefling Druid (circle of the moon) and Human Crossbowmaster hunter ranger. After the Devastator nuked the shit out of them, the consistent shitty rolls the party got made them lose the fight. They were on a quest to resurrect 1 of the 2 dead party members, this time the paladin that gained the slight favor of Bahamut in the form of a sword and this is a dungeon called "Well of Dragons" and the hobgoblins have taken base up in it, as their leader has a dragon as his adviser. My current idea is that the hobgoblins will literally use them to explore parts of the dungeon that the hobgoblins haven't entered yet to "see if there's any traps". I'm very open to ideas but I'd probably not want to take them away from the dungeon right now.[/QUOTE] Using them as gifts for other monsters, or as some sort of diplomats, or having one sneak into an enemy lair to do something: retrieve a gem, magic item, or kill a specific critter.. or just have it mapped out for an assault. Maybe have them try to find, like, a silver dragon's egg that's supposed to be there and bring it back so they can sacrifice it to Tiamat or some biz. Something as a favor for their own dragon patron/advisor. Maybe find a way to have their own dragon advisor take an interest in the party and drag them into his service with a geas to do a secondary adventure of the dragon's own choosing in exchange for freedom.

[QUOTE=IAmAnooB;52619931]So the encounter they lost to was: 1 Hobgoblin Devastator (CR 4) 4 Shitty 1/2 CR Hobgoblins 1 Veteran Hobgoblin (my own creation, stronger standard hobgoblins, CR 3) 1 Hobgoblin Captain (health boosted and to hit boosted so from CR 3 to CR 4) As a 4 member level 9 party, Arcane Trickster Half-Elf Rogue with really strong magical weapons, Birdperson Bard with counterspell, Tiefling Druid (circle of the moon) and Human Crossbowmaster hunter ranger. After the Devastator nuked the shit out of them, the consistent shitty rolls the party got made them lose the fight. They were on a quest to resurrect 1 of the 2 dead party members, this time the paladin that gained the slight favor of Bahamut in the form of a sword and this is a dungeon called "Well of Dragons" and the hobgoblins have taken base up in it, as their leader has a dragon as his adviser. My current idea is that the hobgoblins will literally use them to explore parts of the dungeon that the hobgoblins haven't entered yet to "see if there's any traps". I'm very open to ideas but I'd probably not want to take them away from the dungeon right now.[/QUOTE] Speaking as part of a party that survived the whole hobgoblin prison ordeal, it shouldn't be too hard to construe some reason for wanting expendable competents. Use as hostages admittedly doesn't work too well in this case (In our experience, they held the rest of our adventuring guild prisoner so that the OG actually competent members would do the job the hobbos wanted dealt with and come back), but depending on your dungeon, it could be any number of things Other power groups might be interested in prisoners from outside the dungeon, mayhap some manner of ward blocks creatures of evil intent or heritage from entering a certain part of the dungeon, so they need patsies to go in and deal with it for them, or maybe they just /really/ don't want to muck up their nice armor fighting otyughs or something Or maybe they set the PC's to work mining to bypass a particularly obnoxious passage, and honestly with a party of that level of sneakiness being left at anything under maximum guard is probably all the opportunity needed to bust out

[QUOTE=Yahnich;52620287]I was getting my players started and one of them was this Elf with Speak with Animals but they were coming out of a destroyed town and needed food, so they rolled to find something to eat and I threw a deer their way They spent the next fucking three hours caring for and finding this deer's herd, instead of just going to the road to the nearest town like I was expecting them to and they still had no goddamn food.[/QUOTE] In my gm's other game he's gming the group hasn't left the starting town and instead of whatever he had planned, has turned into a campaign about managing a sandwich shop.