D&D V6 - Edition jokes don't really make sense anymore - Games

First, I would ask yourself this: Do you think the party is actually enjoying the game? It sounds to me like several members aren't really invested. I've found that people generally do not know what to do when they don't really care about the game and by extension do not have motivations in mind for their characters. Secondly, players on their phones is generally a no-go for me. Anxiety or not, if you're not able to devote your full attention to the game, then you probably shouldn't be playing. That's for everybody's sake. I would say the same goes for players who are often absent, which makes running games sometimes quite difficult. Beyond that, maybe force some story on them. Have the party just end up in situations and be forced to make decisions on how to resolve them. Maybe have your leader for some reason not be able to decide for the rest of the party. Perhaps force individuals to make split second decisions in combat to get them used to it. Just a few ideas. If you have to, I would maybe do a little bit of light railroading just to move things along and force these sorts of decisions. Sometimes what players want is just to be along for the ride. [editline]2nd March 2018[/editline] That being said, that's not an easy situation, and I hope you find something that works out for your group!

[QUOTE=Splash Attack;53172133]First, I would ask yourself this: Do you think the party is actually enjoying the game? It sounds to me like several members aren't really invested. I've found that people generally do not know what to do when they don't really care about the game and by extension do not have motivations in mind for their characters. Secondly, players on their phones is generally a no-go for me. Anxiety or not, if you're not able to devote your full attention to the game, then you probably shouldn't be playing. That's for everybody's sake. I would say the same goes for players who are often absent, which makes running games sometimes quite difficult. Beyond that, maybe force some story on them. Have the party just end up in situations and be forced to make decisions on how to resolve them. Maybe have your leader for some reason not be able to decide for the rest of the party. Perhaps force individuals to make split second decisions in combat to get them used to it. Just a few ideas. If you have to, I would maybe do a little bit of light railroading just to move things along and force these sorts of decisions. Sometimes what players want is just to be along for the ride.[/QUOTE] Also this absolutely. If they really do want to play you just need to tap into their "flight or fight" sense. You may be missing that crucial element of urgency? A good kick in the ass like the city getting sacked by an undead horde and one of the more passive members suffering an awful (but of course curable) disease would show them how sitting on their ass is the worst thing they can do. Splitting the party up so the less active players *need* to act & improvise is easy to do in a familiar city setting, as well. [editline]2nd March 2018[/editline] Perhaps give the least active players a secret agenda they need to fulfill while on their immediate journeys lest they be destroyed~

[QUOTE=ghosevil;53172084]I would have haggled for a DEX save if I was this rogue.. I mean walking with caution, an apprentice of my trade, is implied as I'll never swagger up to a door flat-footed especially when I was the first in the room to perceive a threat! But I agree, too many would be quick to swoop down with the 'hand of god' as you put it.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I seriously thought about it, but at the end of the day I decided that letting her survive this would have been seen as a cop-out by the table. Per the RAW, everything was legit. She found herself staring at a swarm (six different monster tokens). The swarm tokens rolled a higher initiative, moved through her space, and made attack rolls consistent with its abilities against her as it did. Eight of those attack rolls exceeded her armor class, and the total damage of the attacks was enough to deal enough damage to trigger the "instant death" rule. Even if I had ignored the instant death rule, enough of the attacks would have hit to knock her unconscious, and subsequently fail three death saving throws, as the Rot Beetles don't give a shit she's unconscious -- they'd just keep eating as long as there was flesh to eat. So, even though it happened in an instant, it was all fair and square and done by the rules. If I had made up a rule on the fly just to try to save her after all of that, it would have gotten some serious eye-rolls from the other players. Honestly, she really was cool about it. Characters die. She can roll a new one, is excited to do so, and will probably be more cautious next time!

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53172065]My party is facing problems right now. We still have fun but they have explained on more than one occasion that my story is too hard to follow. One member has struggled to understand any of the story and and is "just here for combat" Another is is always on her phone because she has anxiety issues and another two members are not always present. Which means that the role of leadership is thrust upon one other person. The rest of the party [B]will not[/B] make decisions. At all. Even just simple stuff, like going to the shops. And as a perfect case in point: the "leader" went to the toilet and I asked them what they'd like to do, I offered suggestions about where they could go and they just sat there looking down until he came back. I've given them many characters thats sole purpose is to explain stuff. Not limited to: -a master scholar who communicates with them instantly from a library containing all every book and piece of information ever recorded -a talented crusader with knowledge of all enemies who travels with them (but has sworn never to take up the sword again) -a archwizard who can explain all magic and lore -they have a wand of wish And yet they still struggle to decide where to go and what to do. And it's not like the story is hard to follow I don't think It's a typical necromancer needs to be stopped story, something they have asked for, for a while. I don't know what else I can do to help them short of just introducing a DMPC.[/QUOTE] I had an out of body experience reading this, because I have an indentical group to the one you described; right down to two of the members randomly not showing up depending on their job schedules for the week. Although with my group, the "knowledge of all enemies" is a book (ala Paper Mario TTYD), and they have a Wand of Wonder instead of wish.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53172065]My party is facing problems right now. We still have fun but they have explained on more than one occasion that my story is too hard to follow. One member has struggled to understand any of the story and and is "just here for combat" Another is is always on her phone because she has anxiety issues and another two members are not always present. Which means that the role of leadership is thrust upon one other person. The rest of the party [B]will not[/B] make decisions. At all. Even just simple stuff, like going to the shops. And as a perfect case in point: the "leader" went to the toilet and I asked them what they'd like to do, I offered suggestions about where they could go and they just sat there looking down until he came back. I've given them many characters thats sole purpose is to explain stuff. Not limited to: -a master scholar who communicates with them instantly from a library containing all every book and piece of information ever recorded -a talented crusader with knowledge of all enemies who travels with them (but has sworn never to take up the sword again) -a archwizard who can explain all magic and lore -they have a wand of wish And yet they still struggle to decide where to go and what to do. And it's not like the story is hard to follow I don't think It's a typical necromancer needs to be stopped story, something they have asked for, for a while. I don't know what else I can do to help them short of just introducing a DMPC.[/QUOTE] That's an unfortunate situation to be in, sorry to hear it. I find the biggest thing that invests my players is making the story about things in their character's backstory. People are a lot more into the story when the town they're saving is the one that their chracter was born in or whatever. I remember a point in my campaign where I mentioned a thing that happened in someone's past and they instantly perked up and sat up in their chair going "wait, what?".

Wand of wish? Like they got a wish spell, or am I missing something. Jesus man, I've got characters who revolve around getting access to a wish spell. If the party needed it to save the world, I'd still seize that wish (character depending)

[QUOTE=Spacewolf;53173070]That's an unfortunate situation to be in, sorry to hear it. I find the biggest thing that invests my players is making the story about things in their character's backstory. People are a lot more into the story when the town they're saving is the one that their chracter was born in or whatever. I remember a point in my campaign where I mentioned a thing that happened in someone's past and they instantly perked up and sat up in their chair going "wait, what?".[/QUOTE] Where doing that too, I've even gone as far as to include their characters from previous campaigns and include them in this one. [QUOTE=ghosevil;53172180]Also this absolutely. If they really do want to play you just need to tap into their "flight or fight" sense. You may be missing that crucial element of urgency? A good kick in the ass like the city getting sacked by an undead horde and one of the more passive members suffering an awful (but of course curable) disease would show them how sitting on their ass is the worst thing they can do. Splitting the party up so the less active players *need* to act & improvise is easy to do in a familiar city setting, as well. [editline]2nd March 2018[/editline] Perhaps give the least active players a secret agenda they need to fulfill while on their immediate journeys lest they be destroyed~[/QUOTE] While good ideas, problem is I'm already going down that route. One of their older player characters got kidnapped and started having his fingers chopped off and mailed to them. Then it was his whole hand... which they just put it in their bag of holding and didn't do anything with it till it rotted. The town they first went to is currently under the iron fist rule of another old player character (Gaston if anyone remembers) And is being besieged by werewolves, and the imperial army The werewolves btw, where from a player character who got infected and despite having the cure choose not to tell the party. The don't really have a flight or fight sense What they do have is a "this is fine.jpg" sense [QUOTE=Splash Attack;53172133] Beyond that, maybe force some story on them. Have the party just end up in situations and be forced to make decisions on how to resolve them. Maybe have your leader for some reason not be able to decide for the rest of the party. Perhaps force individuals to make split second decisions in combat to get them used to it. Just a few ideas. If you have to, I would maybe do a little bit of light railroading just to move things along and force these sorts of decisions. Sometimes what players want is just to be along for the ride. [editline]2nd March 2018[/editline] That being said, that's not an easy situation, and I hope you find something that works out for your group![/QUOTE] Thanks, regarding "light" railroading could you (and other people if you want) give an example? That's how I learn best and I don't think I fully understand the difference between light, and full on railroading. [QUOTE=The Jack;53173205]Wand of wish? Like they got a wish spell, or am I missing something. [/QUOTE] Yes, a wand of (1) wish spell just in case. It's a high magic campaign. - - - Thanks for taking the time to post help. I really appreciate it very much.

Do you guys treat acrobatics and athletics as totally different skills? Or is there some overlap for yall. Personally, if something is necessarily 'athletic' (IE, sprinting, lifting something, etc) I use Athletics, and if something is necessarily 'acrobatic' (IE, balancing) I use 'acrobatics'. But when it comes to climbing and jumping, they're interchangable. Athletics is already the much more useful skill as it is, so to limit Acrobatics to JUST balancing as it is in the PHB is pretty silly.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;53173378]Do you guys treat acrobatics and athletics as totally different skills? Or is there some overlap for yall. Personally, if something is necessarily 'athletic' (IE, sprinting, lifting something, etc) I use Athletics, and if something is necessarily 'acrobatic' (IE, balancing) I use 'acrobatics'. But when it comes to climbing and jumping, they're interchangable. Athletics is already the much more useful skill as it is, so to limit Acrobatics to JUST balancing as it is in the PHB is pretty silly.[/QUOTE] Climbing natural rocky cliffs or REALLY tall things - athletics It's easier to do, and more about stamina Climbing short cliffs/obstacles or difficult things - acrobatics Anyone sufficient adventurer can get over or on top with a good effort it's more a matter of how well can they do it.

[QUOTE=Chronische;53171155]That's what you get for using random loot tables instead of vintage, hand picked, artisinal custom-tooled loot 'experiences'.[/QUOTE] I use artisanal custom-tooled loot TABLES. I fuckin' love random tables. I use Fantasy Grounds to organize all my DM toys, and have been making dozens of custom tables to roll on when I need to pull something out of my ass. Loot, encounters, locations, weather, NPCs, villages, quest hooks, etc. I'm still working on getting everything functional for our next campaign, as this one should be wrapping up soon, but the dream is to be able to randomly generate damn near everything.

[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;53173378]Do you guys treat acrobatics and athletics as totally different skills? Or is there some overlap for yall. Personally, if something is necessarily 'athletic' (IE, sprinting, lifting something, etc) I use Athletics, and if something is necessarily 'acrobatic' (IE, balancing) I use 'acrobatics'. But when it comes to climbing and jumping, they're interchangable. Athletics is already the much more useful skill as it is, so to limit Acrobatics to JUST balancing as it is in the PHB is pretty silly.[/QUOTE] See acrobatics is like this tiny subsection of athletics. It's like seeing a skill category for "guitar" and then "String instruments" I think I'd let someone with athletics do all the things someone with acrobatics can do and more unless we were talking about being tumbling for money. Moreso because it's the only Str skill in 5e and dex is in general a more useful attribute.

[QUOTE=The Jack;53173882]See acrobatics is like this tiny subsection of athletics. It's like seeing a skill category for "guitar" and then "String instruments" I think I'd let someone with athletics do all the things someone with acrobatics can do and more unless we were talking about being tumbling for money. Moreso because it's the only Str skill in 5e and dex is in general a more useful attribute.[/QUOTE] I'm on the opposite side of the fence, athletics is already the superior skill as it covers way more things, and thieves and rogues in D&D want to be able to climb and jump with the best of them. Basically, Acrobatics, RAW is the most useless skill in D&D as it literally just covers 'balancing' and 'landing on your feet'. It's also a little silly that there's no overlap given that there's already a ton of overlap between things like survival and knowledge (nature), and perception and investigation. Just seems completely arbitrary to limit acrobatics.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;53173611]I use artisanal custom-tooled loot TABLES. I fuckin' love random tables. I use Fantasy Grounds to organize all my DM toys, and have been making dozens of custom tables to roll on when I need to pull something out of my ass. Loot, encounters, locations, weather, NPCs, villages, quest hooks, etc. I'm still working on getting everything functional for our next campaign, as this one should be wrapping up soon, but the dream is to be able to randomly generate damn near everything.[/QUOTE] How is Fantasy Grounds? It seems interesting but it's [i]really[/i] expensive. I'd want to look into it but the free version is so limited in what you can do, I don't even think you can host games. I'd be willing to drop the $150 if I knew it was worth it but....

[QUOTE=Yahnich;53174179]holy shit its 150 dollars? it looks like it was made in 2001[/QUOTE] [img]https://i.imgur.com/9bJQTOr.png[/img] Given that it's run online, I'd want to get Ultimate edition to host games for free players so I don't have to force my players to pay the $40 for standard edition.

Maverick you're a stronger GM than I. If I were in your place I'd kill the game and never run with those players again.

(5e)Is wall of stone the worst or best idea for making permanent structures for settlement/fortification? I'm not even sure how long/complex you could make a structure with one use of the spell. RAW it seems you can just swing your sword at a castle wall and eventually you'll get through, but your thoughts for RAI?

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;53174342]Maverick you're a stronger GM than I. If I were in your place I'd kill the game and never run with those players again.[/QUOTE] Their my friends, and I love them dearly but God they can irritate me too. I just don't know what else I can do and I don't know if it's my fault that they can't grasp the story.

I really can't play non shadowrun outside of fantasy grounds anymore, it's just too nice. I'll probably grab the ultimate next time it's on sale. Also I see athletics as scaling a building say, assassins creed style, or hitman style. while acrobatics is more parkouring up there.

[QUOTE=The Jack;53174504](5e)Is wall of stone the worst or best idea for making permanent structures for settlement/fortification? I'm not even sure how long/complex you could make a structure with one use of the spell. RAW it seems you can just swing your sword at a castle wall and eventually you'll get through, but your thoughts for RAI?[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's basically just your normal brick and mortar wall. From reading the spell description, I think it works pretty well, all things considered. Each 10x10 stone panel has 180 hit points, so even if a rogue army were to show up and start whacking on one panel (4 dudes at a time approx) it would still take quite a while to bust through. It would take a while to build your castle or town this way, but it would be MUCH faster having the wizard or druid doing it than it would be for a team of artisans to do it, seeing as the spell allows for some complexity to the design. Just takes 10 minutes to do. Basically it's the best idea ever and I'll be stealing it.

[QUOTE=Smas;53174841]Yeah, it's basically just your normal brick and mortar wall. From reading the spell description, I think it works pretty well, all things considered. Each 10x10 stone panel has 180 hit points, so even if a rogue army were to show up and start whacking on one panel (4 dudes at a time approx) it would still take quite a while to bust through. It would take a while to build your castle or town this way, but it would be MUCH faster having the wizard or druid doing it than it would be for a team of artisans to do it, seeing as the spell allows for some complexity to the design. Just takes 10 minutes to do. Basically it's the best idea ever and I'll be stealing it.[/QUOTE] It's shit though, when you can instead build out of walls of force. That stuff's practically indestructible.

For things you can build with the spell, it says you can build bridges, make battlements, can be built horizontally, and so forth, as long as it's all connected to a piece of stone already in existence, whether that's walls you've already made or a starting rock somewhere. So basically you can just build anything, just about. [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Chronische;53174854]It's shit though, when you can instead build out of walls of force. That stuff's practically indestructible.[/QUOTE] Well sure. But it's also invisible, and takes a fuckton longer to build, as you get like, ten of those mentioned stone panels at a time. Enjoy your invisible town chump. [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] Ah, I see you get 10 panels of it as well of the invisible stuff, but still, why would you make a town out of stuff you can't see.

[QUOTE=Smas;53174855]For things you can build with the spell, it says you can build bridges, make battlements, can be built horizontally, and so forth, as long as it's all connected to a piece of stone already in existence, whether that's walls you've already made or a starting rock somewhere. So basically you can just build anything, just about. [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] Well sure. But it's also invisible, and takes a fuckton longer to build, as you get like, ten of those mentioned stone panels at a time. Enjoy your invisible town chump. [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] Ah, I see you get 10 panels of it as well of the invisible stuff, but still, why would you make a town out of stuff you can't see.[/QUOTE] Doesn't have to stay invisible. Ever heard of paint? And besides, it's an indestructible town that doesn't need any kind of supports, and can thusly be built in much crazier ways. Enjoy your vastly inferior stone town, plebian!

Wall of Force isn't permanent though.

[QUOTE=munky91;53174874]Wall of Force isn't permanent though.[/QUOTE] Ah, there's the difference there. For a moment I was wondering why one would seem so much superior given they were the same casting level. Still, I did entertain the idea of someone's job just to be painting the invisible town with murals so people could see just where they were going.

I can't see a limit to it (beyond needing some stone for a starting space) so it just seems like, especially when you pair it with meld earth, you could sculpt a city/castle very quickly (like Ideally you'll want a castle-grade wall to be at least 1-2 meters thick, but the rules don't say anything to prevent you from layering them) Spell of instant castle, fast roads and quick-build city it seems(minus all those nice cosey details) (if anyone's got ideas of what other spells work well with these two, would be appreciated)

[QUOTE=munky91;53174874]Wall of Force isn't permanent though.[/QUOTE] Ever heard of Permanency? Castles and fortresses built with Wall of Force (at least as a core, with brick and mortar put on top) date back to the creation of the spell. Forcecage, in 5e, speaking of which, is the best spell to kill literally anything caught inside. No save, and without some form of teleportation you're shit out of luck for a VERY long time while poisons or what have you can be wafted inside.

Gm fudge a little and cast permanence on them?

[QUOTE=The Jack;53175016]I can't see a limit to it (beyond needing some stone for a starting space) so it just seems like, especially when you pair it with meld earth, you could sculpt a city/castle very quickly (like Ideally you'll want a castle-grade wall to be at least 1-2 meters thick, but the rules don't say anything to prevent you from layering them) Spell of instant castle, fast roads and quick-build city it seems(minus all those nice cosey details) (if anyone's got ideas of what other spells work well with these two, would be appreciated)[/QUOTE] There's a magic item called Daern's Instant Fortress, which can be a good foundation to build an actual fortress or castle around. It's not that huge, but a solid tower of adamantine is certainly a sturdy start. It can even be shrunk again to carry around later, making it pretty much the classiest adventurer tool there is.

Instant fortress is too costly/is a crazy out there item that the players'll likely never see. Permanency doesn't seem to be a thing in 5e.

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;53174566]Their my friends, and I love them dearly but God they can irritate me too. I just don't know what else I can do and I don't know if it's my fault that they can't grasp the story.[/QUOTE] Sounds like you either need to do dragonball level dnd or find a new group, because going outside the bounds you're in with the group you have is already well past diminishing returns. You should prolly run an online game; in fact run WHAT you're running now with different group, and if they respond better then you know it's not you and what the actual problem is, and there is no fix other than what you expect to get out of it, and how much you can put up with that and not stab someone with a giant hard foam d4. [quote] acrothletics [/quote] They are not even kind of the same thing, even under the genericized set up of the current edition. Acrobatics covers movement and evasion and balance, athletics covers raw FEATS/TESTS of brute non-weapon based power or endurance. Judo and Triathlon cross training aren't the same thing, and neither are these.