D&D V6 - Edition jokes don't really make sense anymore - Games

I can't imagine when I'll need to move 240 miles per hour, but I look forward to the opportunity.

[QUOTE=elowin;51584567]120 feet isn't very ridiculous at all, actually it's less than average for an all out sprint. Remember a turn in D&D is 6 seconds, so you're going 20 feet per second, which is 13.6 miles per hour. The average human's peak running speed lies somewhere around 15 miles per hour. Usain Bolt's peak speed is 27.8 miles per hour.[/QUOTE] My point was more that as far as tactics are concerned, unless you're trapped in an open field such speeds are basically unnecessary Even in 5e I can count on one hand the number of times I've not been able to get in position to be useful with 60 ft of moving per turn

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51583495]What interesting effects and rules could I give items in my game Not Stuff like "it's a fire sword." But maybe something like." A relic, but if you attack first and draw blood the damage is transferred to you, it can only be used in revenge." Or "Gloves of gluttony, when ever your hands are empty freshly made food will appear in it." Non battle related stuff that just does unique things.[/QUOTE] A short sword of fire which toasts your bread when you slice it.

[QUOTE=croguy;51585147]A short sword of fire which toasts your bread when you slice it.[/QUOTE] does it glow and go vzzzhoom too?

[QUOTE=munky91;51583799]You can hit 1/3 mach with a properly kitted Tabaxi monk.[/QUOTE] ...how, pray tell? I'm seeing the ability to get up to 280ft/turn via 20th-level fast movement, with Mobile and then doing a move + dash, up to 420 if you have Expeditious Retreat, up to 560 with Haste as well, but that's still a couple hundred mph short of what you're claiming to have

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51583495]What interesting effects and rules could I give items in my game Not Stuff like "it's a fire sword." But maybe something like." A relic, but if you attack first and draw blood the damage is transferred to you, it can only be used in revenge." Or "Gloves of gluttony, when ever your hands are empty freshly made food will appear in it." Non battle related stuff that just does unique things.[/QUOTE] Pants of transit (for the Gloves of gluttony combo) You never need to shit, any waste your body makes is transported to another dimension, or a pot that can be forced upon your enemies as a hat.

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;51585118]My point was more that as far as tactics are concerned, unless you're trapped in an open field such speeds are basically unnecessary Even in 5e I can count on one hand the number of times I've not been able to get in position to be useful with 60 ft of moving per turn[/QUOTE] Running away?

[QUOTE=Alsojames;51584211]A bomb that dispenses a potion of healing in gaseous form.[/QUOTE] A warhammer of healing but it only heals on a crit.

[QUOTE=Alsojames;51584211]You should make a bunch of anti-items; items that do the opposite of what you think it would do. A toothpick that puts things in your teeth. A bow that fires backwards. A bomb that dispenses a potion of healing in gaseous form. A weapon of human banishing.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Alice3173;51586455]A warhammer of healing but it only heals on a crit.[/QUOTE] Removing people is exactly what a weapon is made for so a weapon of human banishing would actually be quite logical, if anything. While it might look like a bomb, a device that releases a healing gas is pretty darn useful too, if a bit counter-intuitive but that can be interesting. The other suggestions are all just utterly pointless, to be honest. From an in-world perspective no one would ever make any of these things because they're just completely useless. If they were made for pranks it would make way more sense for that to be a simple "prank" spell rather than a permanent magical object, because permanent magic items are extremely expensive and time consuming to make. The bow almost works as a really, really specific assassination tool if D&D wasn't a world where a single arrow wound barely qualifies as an inconvenience due to easy access to instantaneous healing magic. From a game perspective they're pointless because as soon as the resident spellcaster casts detect magic and realizes it's completely useless they'll just be immediately discarded. Now that the slightly negative part of the post is over, one really good source of inspiration for actually useful but non-combat magic items is real life technology. There are so many convenient things in your regular everyday life, and it's just a matter of making up a more fantastical equivalent. Cellphones? How about the Noise Nexus, a small, hollow, can-like object that transmits sounds to magically connected Noise Nickers, small devices that can fit right in your ear! Or alternatively, Tamas' Talky Tele-Rocks, small stones that let you telepathically communicate with anyone else holding an identical rock! For a GPS device, you could have a piece of parchment that automagically fills itself out with a map of the surrounding region wherever the players go. Maybe call it something like Girard's Perspectivized Self-Scribbling Map, or the GPSS Map. Pun optional. Food Processor? What about a knife that cuts food on it's own. Dish-washer? Maybe everclean dishes, or an automagic cleaning tub. Lighter? What about a rock that starts fires. Think that one's already an alchemical item in Pathfinder, actually. Automating mundane activities is like the easiest way to make up magic items that people would probably actually make.

Well, isn't that what summoning is for? Like, creating undead warriors and conjuring enthralled demons is swell and all, but it's not really the ultimate use for such magic, is it? The zombies can build my castle The ghosts can be made to keep it clean and orderly, and prepare food. An imp can put on entertainment. X,Y and Z for the harem a devil can steward, or teach new magics and so on.

[QUOTE=SiberysTranq;51585296]...how, pray tell? I'm seeing the ability to get up to 280ft/turn via 20th-level fast movement, with Mobile and then doing a move + dash, up to 420 if you have Expeditious Retreat, up to 560 with Haste as well, but that's still a couple hundred mph short of what you're claiming to have[/QUOTE] Base movement speeds: 30 (base) 30 (monk) 10 (Philosopher's Stone from a buddy) 10 (Longstrider spell) 10 (Mobile feat) Total speed: 90 Speed multipliers: Haste (2x, plus another dash) Tabaxi Movement (2x) Total speed with 4 actions (move, bonus dash, action, action): 1440 feet. Double if you find that boot set that doubles speed. All across liquids and vertical surfaces with monk movement ability, and ignoring difficult terrain from Mobile.

So, I now have realized that JoJo's bizzare adventure (as well as quite a bit of anime) works exactly an RPG game - even though most actions take a realistic amount of time, such as seconds, everyone is able to speak entire essays on the matter of events happening.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51586996]Well, isn't that what summoning is for? Like, creating undead warriors and conjuring enthralled demons is swell and all, but it's not really the ultimate use for such magic, is it? The zombies can build my castle The ghosts can be made to keep it clean and orderly, and prepare food. An imp can put on entertainment. X,Y and Z for the harem a devil can steward, or teach new magics and so on.[/QUOTE] Not really, at least not in D&D/Pathfinder For starters all undead creation is objectively and inherently evil. Even if you accept that, non-intelligent undead are too stupid to build anything whatsoever, intelligent undead are difficult to control. Regular summoning spells are utterly useless for non-combat purposes due to their tiny durations. Planar Binding works, but it has a defined duration limit (in the case of 3e/pathfinder, caster level days) Furthermore you have to bargain for the creature's service, there's a bunch of ways it can break free of the binding during the bargaining stage, including you rolling a natural 1 while bargaining meaning there's a minimum 5% chance of it breaking free every time. Once it escapes or finishes it's service it's free to exact it's revenge on you, if it wants to. Maybe it won't, but if you bind a lot of creatures some of them are bound to want you dead eventually.

How do evil overlords get all that shit into their dungeon then? "I think the adventurers will come in 4 days, better get sacrifices ready to make those summonings three days from now" (can't you take 10 on summoning?, or get advantage on the summoning rolls due to favourable conditions?)

[QUOTE=The Jack;51587707]How do evil overlords get all that shit into their dungeon then? "I think the adventurers will come in 4 days, better get sacrifices ready to make those summonings three days from now" (can't you take 10 on summoning?, or get advantage on the summoning rolls due to favourable conditions?)[/QUOTE] Ask your GM. In some cases it's probably not a case of 'the big bad put it there', but of 'this is where it lives', but more often, it's probably just the GM throwing whatever they want into the dungeon and not giving a shit because when the fuck are the players going to question his infallible game design?

[QUOTE=The Jack;51587707]How do evil overlords get all that shit into their dungeon then? "I think the adventurers will come in 4 days, better get sacrifices ready to make those summonings three days from now" (can't you take 10 on summoning?, or get advantage on the summoning rolls due to favourable conditions?)[/QUOTE] Some folks on Reddit did this write up for the Yugoloths being essentially the war profiteers of D&D, and it kinda provided an answer to this. If you were a sufficiently evil baddy in need of bloodcoins, eldritch guard dogs, or just generally evil shit the Yugoloths could probably hook you up for a few souls. I dunno if it's very accurate to previous lore but the idea that behind every BBEG there was a tireless army of extraplanar bureaucrats making sure he had enough Water Weirds in his dungeon was really amusing. Especially since if King Evilmann the Lich diden't make sure to keep a steady stream of souls coming the Yugs could just show up and repo all his shit.

[QUOTE=Rats808;51587748]Ask your GM. In some cases it's probably not a case of 'the big bad put it there', but of 'this is where it lives', but more often, it's probably just the GM throwing whatever they want into the dungeon and not giving a shit because when the fuck are the players going to question his infallible game design?[/QUOTE] Yeah, usually the answer is either A: It's reason for being there is entirely mundane. It might just have ended up living there, they might actually be working for the big bad and maybe they're even getting paid for it, or maybe someone is keeping it as a pet or guard-animal-monster-thing. or B: [thumb]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/816/its-magic-i-aint-gotta-explain-shit2.jpg[/thumb]

If you as a GM give your players a backwards firing bow and then go rules lawyer book nose boring mcboring pants on them when they use it for a creative assassination, you don't deserve to Gm anyway. Rule of good/clever RP over book rules 101 Doesn't matter if the arrow is worthless in combat mechanics, it's a fucking surprise magical arrow to the face. I'd be arguing rules with the GM to make it work if they were a bitch about it. Flat footed, stealth attack, any rule that I could string up with a vague usage. Don't be a rules lawyer, it will 100% bite you because the players are many and can cover more book than you can.

i already found a couple uses for the backwards firing bow. go to archery tournement, play normally, whenever you find someone doing a little better than you, switch their bow for the BFB and watch them fail and/or kill themselves hostage situation where they are making you kill your best friend/loved one? do it using the BFB and take them out instead. confuse your enemies by walking towards them with your back turned, making them believe you are on their side, then shoot them all dead THE BFB, for all your archery needs just 4 easy payments of 55g

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51588077]If you as a GM give your players a backwards firing bow and then go rules lawyer book nose boring mcboring pants on them when they use it for a creative assassination, you don't deserve to Gm anyway. Rule of good/clever RP over book rules 101 Doesn't matter if the arrow is worthless in combat mechanics, it's a fucking surprise magical arrow to the face. I'd be arguing rules with the GM to make it work if they were a bitch about it. Flat footed, stealth attack, any rule that I could string up with a vague usage. Don't be a rules lawyer, it will 100% bite you because the players are many and can cover more book than you can.[/QUOTE] Sneak attacks are a rogue class feature and wouldn't work at all, flat footed doesn't increase damage in any way, 1d8 damage incoming woops even a commoner can survive that lol. Thing is, it wouldn't kill you in real life either. Unless it happens to hit your heart or something an arrow in the stomach is not going to be immediately fatal. Oh you'd probably die of dysentery or something a few days later, but this is still a world where instantaneous magical remedies are easily available. And if you're above level 1 you basically have ultra survival super powers so it's not even going to hinder you much.

[QUOTE=elowin;51589975]Sneak attacks are a rogue class feature and wouldn't work at all, flat footed doesn't increase damage in any way, 1d8 damage incoming woops even a commoner can survive that lol. Thing is, it wouldn't kill you in real life either. Unless it happens to hit your heart or something an arrow in the stomach is not going to be immediately fatal. Oh you'd probably die of dysentery or something a few days later, but this is still a world where instantaneous magical remedies are easily available. And if you're above level 1 you basically have ultra survival super powers so it's not even going to hinder you much.[/QUOTE] Commoners in 5e(the edition this question was posed for) have 4 hp, on average. Even a noble is only gonna have 9 hp, on average. Plus, this is just a situation where stupid fucking rules lawyering doesn't help anything.

[QUOTE=Rats808;51590140]Commoners in 5e(the edition this question was posed for) have 4 hp, on average. Even a noble is only gonna have 9 hp, on average. Plus, this is just a situation where stupid fucking rules lawyering doesn't help anything.[/QUOTE] Don't know how exactly death works in 5e but generally you don't die at 0 hp. And I wouldn't say this is rules lawyering. Like I said if anything it's pretty accurate to real life, an arrow will fuck you up but it's not gonna kill you immediately. And this is still assuming a level 1 character.

I don't know anything about 5e rules because DnD is objective trash but anyway: If I wanted real life I wouldn't be playing an imaginary fantasy /game/ with people and dice. If I wanted to be restricted to a very narrow margin of concepts to solve a problem, I'd just play a video game. Even video games ignore mechanics when they want to make something more interesting or whatever. You don't see the guys getting beheaded at the start of Skyrim just taking a bit of damage from their sponge bar and then just sitting there because mechanically it's just an ax hit yeah? Even NPCs survive millions of those. No they get straight beheaded, because the mechanics aren't important in this instance. Even if you didn't want it to work 100% you should at the least give your players a very significant portion of the idea, like the target is severely wounded or something. And idk why it wouldn't kill someone, an arrow directly to the face point blank seems pretty deadly to me. If you just throw "wellp, he takes 1d8 damage and then the nearby cleric just auto-casts healing magic on him, lol you guys did all that for nothing" you're playing a trpg very wrong and should honestly re-evaluate what you're doing.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51590711]I don't know anything about 5e rules because DnD is objective trash but anyway: If I wanted real life I wouldn't be playing an imaginary fantasy /game/ with people and dice. If I wanted to be restricted to a very narrow margin of concepts to solve a problem, I'd just play a video game. Even video games ignore mechanics when they want to make something more interesting or whatever. You don't see the guys getting beheaded at the start of Skyrim just taking a bit of damage from their sponge bar and then just sitting there because mechanically it's just an ax hit yeah? Even NPCs survive millions of those. No they get straight beheaded, because the mechanics aren't important in this instance. Even if you didn't want it to work 100% you should at the least give your players a very significant portion of the idea, like the target is severely wounded or something. And idk why it wouldn't kill someone, an arrow directly to the face point blank seems pretty deadly to me. If you just throw "wellp, he takes 1d8 damage and then the nearby cleric just auto-casts healing magic on him, lol you guys did all that for nothing" you're playing a trpg very wrong and should honestly re-evaluate what you're doing.[/QUOTE] You know this isn't /tg/, you are allowed to discuss D&D without whining about it. Combat mechanics are an abstraction for conflict resolution and rule 0 exists. Arrows don't typically kill in one shot for purposes of game balance however for narrative purposes they can do so, it's ultimately down to the GM and there's no [b]objective[/b] right or wrong way of doing things, instead you should probably go with whatever works for individual groups and circumstances. There's no need to get so upset, friend.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51590711]I don't know anything about 5e rules because DnD is [B]objective [/B]trash[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;BaN6TuFyye0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaN6TuFyye0[/video]

[QUOTE=RearAdmiral;51591043]You know this isn't /tg/, you are allowed to discuss D&D without whining about it. Combat mechanics are an abstraction for conflict resolution and rule 0 exists. Arrows don't typically kill in one shot for purposes of game balance however for narrative purposes they can do so, it's ultimately down to the GM and there's no [b]objective[/b] right or wrong way of doing things, instead you should probably go with whatever works for individual groups and circumstances. There's no need to get so upset, friend.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say hit points in Dungeons and Dragons are an abstract system. They just don't really make much sense at all, because in some ways the game acts as if hit points are totally supposed to be a simulation of your level of injury, while in other ways it acts as if they're a completely abstract system. Personally I heavily lean towards treating them like they're more simulationist than not because it makes higher level martials seem way more badass than normal, being able to shrug off dozens of arrows and stab wounds no problem. And in general it just breaks the internal logic way less than treating it like plot armor or fatigue or something. When you're standing in the middle of a dragon's fire breath which is so burning hot it melts steel beams instantly, and you survive that shit, I think the only adequate explanation is that you're just that ridiculously strong.

[QUOTE=elowin;51586720]Removing people is exactly what a weapon is made for so a weapon of human banishing would actually be quite logical, if anything. While it might look like a bomb, a device that releases a healing gas is pretty darn useful too, if a bit counter-intuitive but that can be interesting. The other suggestions are all just utterly pointless, to be honest. From an in-world perspective no one would ever make any of these things because they're just completely useless. If they were made for pranks it would make way more sense for that to be a simple "prank" spell rather than a permanent magical object, because permanent magic items are extremely expensive and time consuming to make. The bow almost works as a really, really specific assassination tool if D&D wasn't a world where a single arrow wound barely qualifies as an inconvenience due to easy access to instantaneous healing magic. From a game perspective they're pointless because as soon as the resident spellcaster casts detect magic and realizes it's completely useless they'll just be immediately discarded. Now that the slightly negative part of the post is over, one really good source of inspiration for actually useful but non-combat magic items is real life technology. There are so many convenient things in your regular everyday life, and it's just a matter of making up a more fantastical equivalent. Cellphones? How about the Noise Nexus, a small, hollow, can-like object that transmits sounds to magically connected Noise Nickers, small devices that can fit right in your ear! Or alternatively, Tamas' Talky Tele-Rocks, small stones that let you telepathically communicate with anyone else holding an identical rock! For a GPS device, you could have a piece of parchment that automagically fills itself out with a map of the surrounding region wherever the players go. Maybe call it something like Girard's Perspectivized Self-Scribbling Map, or the GPSS Map. Pun optional. Food Processor? What about a knife that cuts food on it's own. Dish-washer? Maybe everclean dishes, or an automagic cleaning tub. Lighter? What about a rock that starts fires. Think that one's already an alchemical item in Pathfinder, actually. Automating mundane activities is like the easiest way to make up magic items that people would probably actually make.[/QUOTE] You could explain the wacky items as some apprentice experimenting on random objects.

All this talk of useless magical items reminds me of one of my friend's campaigns. Every goddamn session there is another whole array of ridiculous and bizarrely creative useless magic items. I'm not going to go over all of them because that's actually impossible at this point, but the most memorable one was one of the first: when our party found a magic items shop, we went inside to find out that everything was strangely cheap. It was run by a madman wizard that enchanted random nonsense in his spare time. He was evil. All the stuff in the shop was also evil. For some reason the town thought it fine to have this den of madness label as a 'shop' there. Anyways, the first item my character brings up and asks the wizard was a small stone statuette of a griffon (I think). The conversation went something like this: Shopkeeper: "Oh, that! That statuette, when you recite it's activation phrase it will turn into a powerful griffon that will defend you with it's life!" My Cleric: "That's grea-" Shopkeeper: "... Except it will only kill innocent people!" My Cleric: "... Then how does it defend me?" Shopkeeper: "It will not kill your assailants, only fight them until they go away! Then it will immediately kill any innocent civilians in the surroundings. Great, isn't it?!" And then the entire town was burnt down in a gigantic magic grease fire. But that is probably a story for another time.

[QUOTE=elowin;51591270]I wouldn't say hit points in Dungeons and Dragons are an abstract system. They just don't really make much sense at all, because in some ways the game acts as if hit points are totally supposed to be a simulation of your level of injury, while in other ways it acts as if they're a completely abstract system.[/QUOTE] Fucking hell, [B]this.[/B] It seems like the game wants you to treat HP more like stamina, where when you reach 0 HP you finally get hit with a (near)fatal blow. But then when magic comes into play it's treated as a gauge of how many hits you can take before falling down. I go with your idea because 1. it uncomplicates things. And 2. What you said about making the PCs (and monsters) seem more badass.

I feel like ignoring hp values and instead having moments where the backwards firing arrow kills the corrupt noble or the rogue instantly garrotes a lone Orc guard helps create memorable moments and rewards the players for thinking creatively or playing to their class strengths. Removing moments like that kinda discourages creative thinking in my experience and in turn the campaign becomes a bit of a slog as players lose interest in trying thing as nothing ever seems to work out in their favor.