So, after playing The Diamond in Mayhem, I unlocked the "Completely Overkill" achievement. Problem is: I have a lot of unfinished heists in my career. Around one week ago the game unlocked the Hard and Very Hard achievements by doing random missions. Now is the Overkill turn and, if my calculations are correct, just by playing other DLC mission in DeathWish or Mayhem, the next difficulty mask will unlock without clearing all the heists in Mayhem.
[QUOTE=Finale;51879481]I still want/hope to get the last couple challenges I have left in PDTH, but I try not to give the thread a running series of posts on the subject.[/QUOTE]
i could help you with blow-out. but the way i did it was camp in bathroom and use an ammobag as cover.
wrong door is just torture without a good team. (i was playing with dorentuz while he was telling me about something i posted earlier and got wrong door unintentionally.)
i've got the golden masks again and now i'm thinking of doing that boring 2 hour overdrill for a mask, but i want to know is should i just use the "meta" loadout or should i try something completely insane and try to do it with the LOCOVERKILL loadout? (i think that this won't work because at one point the entire team will just run out of ammo even with trading.)
[QUOTE=rednavi;51884065]You always have something negative in your builds, you cannot cover every aspect positively. Whether you *care* about certain stuff being covered or not in your build is an entirely different matter (Like when I play as a masterforcer and have to wear armor, sacrificing speed in the process).
I wish we had truly god builds that made the hardest difficulty a "cakewalk" because then pubs wouldn't be so fucking awful. If 1D is so easy that's because you're a good player, don't downplay your skill as just having a good build. The build is nothing without a good player behind it.[/QUOTE]
Then difficulty will be balanced around that build and will be Safehouse difficulty re-balance cranked to 11.
If that will be the case, then the only way to kill units is to use guns which damage reaches hundreds per shot, paired with high RoF. You want that, don't you.
[QUOTE=rednavi;51884065]You always have something negative in your builds, you cannot cover every aspect positively. Whether you *care* about certain stuff being covered or not in your build is an entirely different matter (Like when I play as a masterforcer and have to wear armor, sacrificing speed in the process).
I wish we had truly god builds that made the hardest difficulty a "cakewalk" because then pubs wouldn't be so fucking awful. If 1D is so easy that's because you're a good player, don't downplay your skill as just having a good build. The build is nothing without a good player behind it.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I'll admit one still needs an ounce of competence to tackle 1D but my main point is that a good 80-90% of it is handled by having Havelmum/Giantdad-tier builds. The rest is just knowing when to take cover and land headshots (or if you use Body Expertise, just be able to aim in the general direction of the enemy)
And regarding about how much you can make your build cover, you can still do a [B]lot[/B]. That fact that you can have up to 6 non-aced T4 skills or 4 aced T4 skills is ridiculous no matter how you look at it. 4 non-aced or 3 aced T4 skills is should be the limit.
Hell, that would've been the limit if OVK actually gave the player the 100 skillpoints as planned from the skilltree beta.
I'm fine with the current skill tree system really. All less points is going to do is cut on the creativity even more and push people into cookie cutter builds more often. The whole point of the skill system is to be [B]fun[/B], not a chore. If anything, perk decks are what makes us overpowered.
I've gone through my 15 builds (For pretty much any kind of weapon, all of them "One Down friendly") and n[B]ot a single one [/B]has four aced T4 skills nor six non aced ones. The average was two aced T4 skills, with some of them having three. Having four aced/ six non aced T4 skills is a freaking waste of points and any build with that is most likely shit.
[QUOTE=brenz;51886655]Then difficulty will be balanced around that build and will be Safehouse difficulty re-balance cranked to 11.
If that will be the case, then the only way to kill units is to use guns which damage reaches hundreds per shot, paired with high RoF. You want that, don't you.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understood my point. I was implying that the skill set is fine as it is and that people sucking so bad at the game shows that you can't make a God build that can carry shitty players.
[QUOTE=rednavi;51887391]I'm fine with the current skill tree system really. All less points is going to do is cut on the creativity even more and push people into cookie cutter builds more often. The whole point of the skill system is to be [B]fun[/B], not a chore. If anything, perk decks are what makes us overpowered.
I've gone through my 15 builds (For pretty much any kind of weapon, all of them "One Down friendly") and n[B]ot a single one [/B]has four aced T4 skills nor six non aced ones. The average was two aced T4 skills, with some of them having three. Having four aced/ six non aced T4 skills is a freaking waste of points and any build with that is most likely shit.
I don't think you understood my point. I was implying that the skill set is fine as it is and that people sucking so bad at the game shows that you can't make a God build that can carry shitty players.[/QUOTE]
Ah sorry about that.
Though why say that builds with 4 T4 aced skills are shit? I have a build with Frenzy, Fully loaded and Iron Man aced and Overkill basic that uses shotguns only. Works like a a charm. It'd be better If I could Ace Overkill for increased switch speed.
Is that on OD though?
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
Perk deck also matters
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51887454]Is that on OD though?
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
Perk deck also matters[/QUOTE]
It doesn't have Nine Lives Aced so no.
Deck is Yakuza.
Besides, you're asking me.
That's a good build I used it but I don't think I'd ever dream of bringing it to OD
Really heckin nice on overkill though
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51887486]That's a good build I used it but I don't think I'd ever dream of bringing it to OD
Really heckin nice on overkill though[/QUOTE]
It is unfortunate.
But you already know I don't do OD. It's great on Mayhem and possibly Death Wish. Just gotta gey kicked down by a cloaker to get that sweet 80% damage boost. I use AA12 and the GSPS.
What about you man?
Biggest problem in OD is its numbers are fucking ridiculous. If it's not how much you can take getting hit it's how little you're hitting for. This eliminates most build options, and even the "OD certified" builds are no guarantee.
It seems the only real way to win OD reliably is to get lucky and join a competent team.
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=brenz;51887495]It is unfortunate.
But you already know I don't do OD. It's great on Mayhem and possibly Death Wish. Just gotta gey kicked down by a cloaker to get that sweet 80% damage boost. I use AA12 and the GSPS.
What about you man?[/QUOTE]
I did the same but started using the SPAS (Predator) and others to mix it up since with how ludicrous your boosts get any shotgun seems to work out.
Have you tried the Benelli? It's essentially Predator v2.
Yes actually. It was much better. Really fast bulldozer kills with it.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;51887555]Yes actually. It was much better. Really fast bulldozer kills with it.[/QUOTE]
Wanted to make a longer response but I was on the bus so couldn't.
The biggest thing keeping me back from OD is the outrageous damage the Heavy SWAT units dish out. All this time I've been bringing up that 225 number for a reason, since for an armor user, that's basically almost all of it gone in 1 hit by an enemy you see 100% of the time. It would be understandable if it was a sniper or something doing that, but it's not. This essentially forces people to use Armorer because of the post-armor break invulnerability, the 30% armor boost makes no difference.
Lighter units doing 64.5 is sort of okay since that's essentially 4 hits your armor can take. But this is sorta pointless due to a problem I'll address further down.
There's also a couple other problems like the stupid as fuck HS multiplier of [B]1.5X BASE[/B] which essentially makes low damage weapons unusable, unless you go for crits but then we're getting into dodge build territory which mostly rule the game atm. It's pretty much DMR-s, bows, any weapon going past 200 damage with high ROF really. Then we get to damage delay. 0.15 seconds. Coupled with Heavies doing 225 a pop we can see without a problem where this leads to. 'Nuff said.
REALLY hope the proposed difficulty re-re-balance addresses at least 2 of these issues.
It took a LOT of courage for me to get into DW back in the (sorta) olden days, pre-OD but post skill re-balance. But as it stands for now, OD is no-go for me.
It's actually a bit worse than you say. At ranges starting 20m and below, OD SWAT fire twice for their stated damage.
OD's ridiculous numbers place pressure on the rest of the game's design. Building around nigh-invincible jokers and body expertise crit builds has become commonplace because enemies on OD have too much health, and do too much damage.
That said, I want to reiterate the general issue with health scaling. There's no benefit to having a flat multiplier applied to enemy health values to set them for different difficulties. Since enemy health already varies linearly, it produces geometrically scaling differences and absurd results as the multiplier increases. The health multiplier approach is a problem on all difficulties.
I don't see how less skillpoints would force more cookie cutter builds. If you can't do as much, that means someone else has to pick up on that slack.
Sure yeah that might hurt solo play but for a multiplayer-centric game that's really how it should be anyways.
[QUOTE=Finale;51887909]It's actually a bit worse than you say. At ranges starting 20m and below, OD SWAT fire twice for their stated damage.
OD's ridiculous numbers place pressure on the rest of the game's design. Building around nigh-invincible jokers and body expertise crit builds has become commonplace because enemies on OD have too much health, and do too much damage.
That said, I want to reiterate the general issue with health scaling. There's no benefit to having a flat multiplier applied to enemy health values to set them for different difficulties. Since enemy health already varies linearly, it produces geometrically scaling differences and absurd results as the multiplier increases. The health multiplier approach is a problem on all difficulties.[/QUOTE]
So 450 and 129? RIP Muscle, though not sure that was even used on OD.
[QUOTE=DeadMansChest;51888032]I don't see how less skillpoints would force more cookie cutter builds. If you can't do as much, that means someone else has to pick up on that slack.
Sure yeah that might hurt solo play but for a multiplayer-centric game that's really how it should be anyways.[/QUOTE]It also means whatever points you have MUST go in to very specific things without question otherwise you can't do anything. By having excess, you can at least have a little bleed to let players take some things personal or specialized to them.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51888309]It also means whatever points you have MUST go in to very specific things without question otherwise you can't do anything[/QUOTE]
So how build systems should be? At most a player should only have 2-3 things they can specialize in.
[QUOTE=DeadMansChest;51888675]So how build systems should be? At most a player should only have 2-3 things they can specialize in.[/QUOTE]But that means that every player will have to have literally the same build to stay functional at the higher difficulties because the enemy balance is shit.
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
It'd be better for players to have too much than not enough.
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/sc_mod#announcements/detail/508182627720955234[/url]
Looks like we got a bulldozer version of captain Winters. Now to wait for a cloaker version.
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/171538996456668836/B624E1196432E14D960A46194B544D2FE2D65646/[/t] [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/171538996456452297/D318F6A59F59A1CE107F1AE129C81615638E4DE4/[/t]
[QUOTE=DeadMansChest;51888032]I don't see how less skillpoints would force more cookie cutter builds. If you can't do as much, that means someone else has to pick up on that slack.
Sure yeah that might hurt solo play but for a multiplayer-centric game that's really how it should be anyways.[/QUOTE]
Have fun with random people coordinating builds to beat higher difficulties.
It provides less variation and honestly, if I put in the time to grind up the levels and cash then I should have every right to feel like I'm overpowered. It makes the game more fun and having less skillpoints would just force people to do very specific things. It becomes "I need to use this because if I don't I'll lose" which isn't fun. It's a terrible and shitty way to chokepoint the players.
kudos to that dude for creating those units but man do you need to do some art passes on those
[QUOTE=fendermcbender;51889476]kudos to that dude for creating those units but man do you need to do some art passes on those[/QUOTE]
I tried.
The Captain in particular was a pain in the ass because the model has a horrendous UV map. Any suggestions to tweak them?
[QUOTE=Lolnoob1;51889988]I tried.
The Captain in particular was a pain in the ass because the model has a horrendous UV map. Any suggestions to tweak them?[/QUOTE]
Give them neon lights and put sirens around their armor.
[QUOTE=Lolnoob1;51889988]I tried.
The Captain in particular was a pain in the ass because the model has a horrendous UV map. Any suggestions to tweak them?[/QUOTE]
give me a bit to formulate some thoughts and research some unit design to give you some concise feedback. I also don't know what is or isn't possible in terms of modding payday 2, so I won't suggest anything outlandish. though, unfortunately, the UV map is a prime offender, so.
[QUOTE=fendermcbender;51890291]give me a bit to formulate some thoughts and research some unit design to give you some concise feedback. I also don't know what is or isn't possible in terms of modding payday 2, so I won't suggest anything outlandish. though, unfortunately, the UV map is a prime offender, so.[/QUOTE]
Changes to armor bits/helmets might be possible (I'm not sure on the armor bits), but doing substantial tweaks to the actual mesh (like the head) are pretty much impossible without breaking the character rigging.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51888795]But that means that every player will have to have literally the same build to stay functional at the higher difficulties because the enemy balance is shit.
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
It'd be better for players to have too much than not enough.[/QUOTE]
Enemy balance is shit because skill balance was already shit to begin with. 1D and Mayhem was OVK's kneejerk reaction to players being able to make god-tier builds
[QUOTE=DeadMansChest;51890964]Enemy balance is shit because skill balance was already shit to begin with. 1D and Mayhem was OVK's kneejerk reaction to players being able to make god-tier builds[/QUOTE]
That doesn't mean the appropriate response is to therefore destroy any chance of variance in builds. It just requires that you do more than just play with numbers to best balance for it. But at the end of the day, it's still better to give the players too much and have them be too powerful because at least they can make full use of the game. An excessive challenge that leaves players incapable of progressing or completing goals will do a lot more damage to a player base than a lack of challenge. Trying to build a game around exclusionary tactics will always lead to a fragile playerbase that easily collapses.
[QUOTE=fendermcbender;51890291]give me a bit to formulate some thoughts and research some unit design to give you some concise feedback. I also don't know what is or isn't possible in terms of modding payday 2, so I won't suggest anything outlandish. though, unfortunately, the UV map is a prime offender, so.[/QUOTE]
[T]https://i.imgur.com/hoPGNmI.jpg[/T]
[T]https://i.imgur.com/IlFXNHy.jpg[/T]
in no particular order or importance, here are my thoughts on both the above images and the capt. spring unit and his henchmen:
- capt. spring is an important unit, on par with winters in some capacity
- their color palettes are similar, which is both a good and bad thing. good if you want to continue along the path of capt. units being under the same wing. bad because capt. spring isn't nearly different enough -- just in terms of look. (I can't knock capt. spring for looking like a dozer unit, when capt. winters looks ostensibly like a shield unit.)
- payday's art style prides unit design on clean cut, tight units. so you can't make a unit look "badass" by using the well-used trope of "military wear" on gear, weapons, etc. in fact, it's sort of the opposite, with gensec priding their units on the best and newest gear, despite being shredded in a matter of seconds. since the same follows for these units, i'd imagine, they have to look pretty prim and proper. if bulldozers are already pretty high-up bomb suits, these suits have to border on almost sci-fi, if these things are so top-of-the-line.
- the dozer faceplate is a huuuuge opportunity for this badassery to shine, while also giving a unique identity. you can tell the difference between dozer units at glances, green/black (obvious color distinction) / winter camo w. skull face plate/monochrome w. Z faceplate/headless, white
these units need this! both between the other dozer units and between themselves. on that note, the color placement on the titandozers are good, but the colors themselves still ain't great. still need ways to tell them apart easily, but that's not worth going into until things are finalized.
- for some reason, grey is the elite color in payday 2. grey has to remain really present.
so, my rigged up shitshow that I threw together in less than an hour.
highlights of CS should be opposing CW. winter = cold colors. spring = start of warm colors.
the yellow would look a lot better if I wasn't just swapping color balance and artificating color, but whatever. for some reason i'm getting a royal vibe, so I went with yellow. that, and a lot of other brighter colors would look really quite shitty in-game. these colors are also ignoring the normal and UV mapping issue that is apparently there, lol.
he needs patches. sleeve patches. didn't bother to make mockups because I didn't care, but patches help a lot.
hard to juggle between "brand new suit" and "fearsome badass" by adding etchings into his armor. (that crotch plate is asking for something. I was going to etch "spring has come" there but decided against it for the way too easy joke opportunity by putting the word "come" by his crotch)
no idea what to do with the faceplate. jumbled that on there. again, hard to juggle "here's a new suit! this capt. guy drew a mean skull on it already."
didn't add these, but thin vertical lines throughout his armor are an easy way to make something seem advanced for some reason. not enough to make it look like a shitty pinstripe suit, but enough to give the impression.
edit: forgot to add yellow trim on skirt plates and inverse on neck guard. oops. use your imagination
there's a lot I could have done, but it's not my unit, i'm not working with textures themselves, free work, etc. so I don't care either way. also it's 2:30
take all of this, none of it, or some of it. :freakout:
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