[QUOTE=lilguy;50871017]Well it's not currently like War Thunder is the bastion of realism.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but to have any semblance of realism you would need those extreme distances. In order to shrink those down you would need to fiddle with shell velocities, make the ballistics act weird so that ship armor still worked correctly, etc. It's not as easy as just making the guns not shoot as far.
imo big ships in big open water confrontations would essentially just be <reasons why old kursk was pure shit> with all the dials turned up to 11, so i'm actually glad they're sticking to smaller stuff.
[URL="http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/326775-large-ship-naval-battles-some-clarification/&page=1"]A 'clarification'[/URL] as to Gaijin's decision with first releasing PT/Missile boats:
[QUOTE] 1.How to play?
It is clear that game play for very big ships is different from game play in tanks or aircraft. Such a huge and unwieldy ship must have an appropriate battlefield and adapted mechanics. Cruisers can easily battle against other cruisers, what will make a head to head battle until the first hit, where the hit ship will just die slowly without any chance to strike back. No health points, no instant repair, only big ship which slowly sinks to the bottom and a player that can only watch while his ship is destroyed.
This game play will bring a dubious pleasure, but it is realistic, because large ships are destroyed in this way. What about action in the locations, they need to be equal to fighting units - the players need time to re-group the ships and prepare for battle. But with dozens of minutes convergence alone, during which everything could end even before it begun - some wild hit from a distant gun, without aimed fire as there is no line of sight, yet the defeat is already quite real, and it’s over.
As for interaction with other types of vehicles, here-in lies some further difficulties. In locations that are suitable for the interaction of different types of vehicles, these ships don’t just rotate on the spot so they are unusually vulnerable just to small torpedo boats. At the same time we can not afford to change the characteristics of these ships, we can not increase their speed and agility, as then it will be required of the lighter vehicles also. What is the outcome of these changes? Totally unrealistic battles, to the extent that a generic bomber will simply not be able to catch the ship, such a boost would be needed to the characteristics of the ship to allow it, for example "a cruiser" to have slim chance in escaping from under the enemy shots.
2.Mechanics
Even small motor gunboats could have a crew of more than 30 men and this is not a small number, with our “craving” for realism large ships will not fit into the dynamics of game battles. Even huge vessels are extremely vulnerable to aircraft and they had very complex tactics, including reconnaissance, protection, long range combat and even rules to their movement do not comply with the gameplay - fighting for frags and rewards.
Capital ships move so slow that they cannot dodge ANY hits at the distance they are fighting at. The only possible solutions are either boost their speed x5 at least so they can dodge or limit the shooting distance. But even if we boost the speed x5 (making it equal to the slowest aircraft) that won't solve the problem of shooting beyond visible range.but still it is possible that one ship can destroy another with a lucky shot - e.g.Bismarck vs. Hood. Two shots fired, battle lasted 30 minutes, hood sank in 3
Maps could be made bigger but that would involve hours and hours of travelling only to get taken out in the first few minutes of contact, there are a few of us who would be happy to do that, but there are just too many that wouldn't.
3.Economy
Ships DO take longer to sink, even one lucky shot can take a whole ship out of action, without destroying or damaging critical modules. Even with critical damage it would take hours for a capital ship to sink. Thus without simplifying damage model to a HP system or the like there will be no game play at all.
How can you count kills?
In reality destroying one capital ship could take hours and hours, and, sometimes seconds - in case of ammunition explosion. With smaller vehicles it is clear - destroying an enemy brings greater rewards, damaging an enemy also brings rewards or can take several hits to destroy an enemy. With ships that have crews of over 1000 men for example, it is much more complex. It is exactly the same for the economy and research and development - even if we ignore big crews with a great variety of functions and qualifications and hundreds of different modules, there is still the question “how many millions of “lions” should a torpedo bomber receive that has taken down a capital ship with a lucky strike?
For such battles we would require a significantly redesigned game mechanic - a completely different gameplay.
4 Imbalance in Nations
As we know, and let’s be honest about this, not all nations had a heavy warship fleet that could match the opponents at the time. There would be nothing up front that could appear in the development of the tree and compete on equal terms with their opponents unless we use small ships to begin with.
We aim not only to give you the very existence of warships in War Thunder, but also to create highly interesting gameplay as well, which would fit into the overall concept of the game, allow each player the participation of all types of equipment in a single battle. The US, Great Britain and Japan had indisputable superiority over the USSR in the number of aircraft carriers, which immediately deprives the USSR of this class of vehicle from the beginning - and yet it happened not because of the technical backwardness of the Soviet Union, but for the simple reason: the Soviet Union had not experienced a great need for these ships, because the main fighting took place both on land and in the air. The same can be said for Germany, their naval power was not the greatest at the beginning of our time frame. But how do we explain that to the many players across the world who still want to be the best? Make no mistake, many players use the soviet and German nations in game.
At the same time, small class ships were common to all nations, and here they are just perfect for most of the current vehicles represented in War Thunder lines of development.
5.Specialty
One more issue is that vessels such as battleships were used very selectively, battles lasted for hours and even days and often ended with an enemy retreat or not being destroyed. Moreover ships such as the “Yamato” or “Missouri” were unique in their class, and definitely, players wouldn't like to wait in the queue because the single e.g. “Yamato” for the current battle has already been taken, or dozen of battleships in one battle without a supporting fleet will be a clumsy and easy target for aircraft.[/QUOTE]
1) This excuse of 'ships would take too long to converge only to get killed by a random shot from 8km' baffles me. In sim air battles this can happen: 10 minutes of flying, only to be shot up by a fighter that you didn't see coming in. While tanks tend to converge far more quickly, it's still entirely possible to be one-shot from over a kilometer away. This is already something that happens in game.
As for the inter-branch interactions... at least a destroyer can bombard enemy ground targets, whereas a PT boat will likely not have a gun that would even penetrate enemy armor in ideal conditions. PT boats are a terrible idea.
2) The large crews of capital ships can be set up as an overall efficiency of the different stations: primary gunnery, secondary gunnery/AA battery, engines/steering, bridge, and damage control. Certain modules hits, depending on the damage inflicted upon it will likely kill or incapacitate a certain number of crew due to the size of the projectiles. As a result, if the module itself is still functional but the crew took casualties then that module will suffer a penalty in efficiency, until ALL crew responsible for said module dies. Once that happens, the module simply stops functioning.
As for ships being unable to dodge... HAH.
Most modern BBs in WW2 were capable of at least 20 knots, which roughly translates to just under 1kpm. Sure, there are light tanks that are faster than that, but considering the ranges of these gunnery duels, a battleship can pull off some evasive maneuvers. Smaller capital ships are even faster, which compensates the shortening gunnery ranges as the gun calibers shrink. You don't even need to make enormous, as battles don't need to include the initial phases of a naval engagement, and just skip straight to the head-on battle itself. Tanks technically do this already.
Gaijin really only needs to make 35x35km maps, since by then most BBs would be in visual range regardless of any fleet maneuvering. Capital ships can start their gunnery duels within about perhaps 5-10 minutes, whereas screens get in close for knife fights.
Yes. The Hood was sunk within 8 minutes. Yes, many other battles took longer than that. But actual confrontations didn't last for longer than an hour usually. And battles that last upwards of an hour seem pretty inviting to me.
3) Again, you have tanks blowing up due to a lucky shot, and some sticking it out against a barrage of enemy fire; same applies to planes. Critical damage didn't always bring down a BB immediately, but if crews are implemented as I explained prior, then damage itself should be rewarded, not the kill itself. Yes, you can still be credited with a kill, but the SL/XP reward will be weighted by damage done rather than number of kills.
4) "Bawww, the USSR didn't have BBs or anything so we won't be implementing capital ships for any nation period!"
Japan is pretty much in the same boat as the USSR when it comes to tanks. So why do we have tanks at all?
5) Sure, and we don't have 8 Mauses fighting 8 IS-4s.
Gaijin is just pulling excuses out of its ass to defend their 'PT boats first! No capital ships' position.
[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;50873713]
4) "Bawww, the USSR didn't have BBs or anything so we won't be implementing capital ships for any nation period!"
Japan is pretty much in the same boat as the USSR when it comes to tanks. So why do we have tanks at all?
[/QUOTE]
Who cares about Japan?
[QUOTE=G.I.U.L.I.O.;50873713]wall 'o text[[/QUOTE]
p.much this, gaijin had one last chance to pull me back in with ships not this PT boat piss.
[QUOTE=maniacykt;50873750]Who cares about Japan?[/QUOTE]
I do. It's always nice to see a nation that fought in ww2 represented in game, even if it boils down to nothing but light tank combat.
Early tier tank combat is the most fun anyways.
"How can we Russian bias when there is nothing to apply bias to"
Pz III with a knocked out gunner and damaged turret ring means the tip of my cannon has the orbital period of fucking Pluto. Still did pretty good with ambushes though
WITNESS ME
[t]http://i.imgur.com/4AGhLNq.jpg[/t]
[editline]15th August 2016[/editline]
Anything can be done when you treat this thing like a ricer drift car
i got bored and had some gold laying around so bought the brummbar. it's pretty cool when it works.
[vid]http://files.1337upload.net/aces_2016-08-09_15-37-30-94-0c3d92.webm[/vid]
This "100" game-mode is quite something.
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/446240580954786433/5FBEEEDF220126750378C73660367DF0F3CC73EE/[/t]
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/446240580954884738/F5FB366A72EBC3A0C4E6F9CB72E1704784CF8C29/[/t]
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/446240580954966801/E1806D82027AA74AC2B354B5535950D3933D8AB8/[/t]
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/446240580955072079/D9342123087C05D322B5A82AEDBB8B1438E1A4DA/[/t]
:thebest:
[QUOTE=madmax678;50887147]This "100" game-mode is quite something.[/QUOTE]
I take it it was an event that expired recently?
[QUOTE=lekkimsm;50888794]I take it it was an event that expired recently?[/QUOTE]Just logged on and yeah, it's gone, must of went a few hours ago.
If everything goes well, I should have my F7F-3 this friday.
Can't wait.
HELP
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1968768/Screenshot%202016-08-15%2015.26.53.png[/t]
I don't know what to do with all this money...
[QUOTE=madmax678;50888967]Just logged on and yeah, it's gone, must of went a few hours ago.[/QUOTE]
I won my KV-1B by getting within the top 300 of that event the last time they had it, I wonder what the prize was this time.
[QUOTE=Tea Guy;50892351]I won my KV-1B by getting within the top 300 of that event the last time they had it, I wonder what the prize was this time.[/QUOTE]I think it was just gold.
Speaking of boats
[t]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PRMIjCSZV3s/Tg9Pu_abTqI/AAAAAAAAUBU/vh_sqpobqkU/s1600/rvrmtrboat464-55.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i57.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1029/44/e1df16d7e9d2056235c2908a02487644.jpg[/t]
"we take tank turret and put it on boat, is best navy comrade"
[editline]16th August 2016[/editline]
I can see why they went with patrol boats and shit
its gonna be tanks on the water basically
[QUOTE=Timebomb575]its gonna be tanks on the water basically[/QUOTE]
Multi-turreted tanks on the water, which completely eliminates an entire dimension of play by removing hills, valleys, and any terrain formations. This has got to be the safest decision they could make.
[t]http://www.comtourist.com/images/large/kiev-rodina-mat-06/kiev-military-museum-volga-patrol-boat-01.jpg[/t]
So what were gonna get one of these and then the premium variant will have the t-34-100 turret strapped to it?
This just has me wondering how well german panzer 4 turret trains would perform in war thunder
I guess we'll never know, because balance ))))))
Fucking [I]finally.[/I]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/aBzZCxM.jpg[/t]
Grinding the last 70K today was absolutely awful. It took 37 games and 9 hours to grind it out when 14 could have in a much shorter time frame. Out of those 37 games I only won 6 of them :/
Time for bed now, I feel nauseous.
Arch, if you want to do today's teamwork event let me know in my mumble.
Edit:
Nevermind. Completed it.
[t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/270600629031281887/771ED61D74385974A5FB39E65C2D114D4D0F3E3F/[/t]
Finally got enough SL to get the Falcon.
So this tournament is just so stupid.
Oh play 5 games and if you finish in "the top 5 players" you win access to the naval tests instead of having to pay for it.
5 fucking players are you kidding me gaijin
[QUOTE=archival;50906783]So this tournament is just so stupid.
Oh play 5 games and if you finish in "the top 5 players" you win access to the naval tests instead of having to pay for it.
5 fucking players are you kidding me gaijin[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's beyond retarded, though what does lessen it _very_ slightly is that it's top 5 players every day, not 5 players total.
Because even then it's like what, 20 players total?
They may aswell not have even bothered at this point. Like it doesn't make sense that they don't know how much this makes them look like a money grabbing developer so why even bother to do the even't that just highlights it? They would have been better off just, not doing it.
GET. Now I need KV-220 and I can stop playing WT for the next few months.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EmAQjT0.jpg?1[/IMG]
Fuck Gaijin's stupid resetting my control scheme every time an update applies. The default key combo for disabling hud is alt+z, which are right next to each other. In the heat of battle, I accidentally hit these and it completely confused me as to what happened and I died as a result. I've had to disable this function nearly a dozen times in the last year or so. It's ridiculous.
[QUOTE=BananaMed;50915273]GET. Now I need KV-220 and I can stop playing WT for the next few months.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EmAQjT0.jpg?1[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Man, I kind of wanted that but it seemed like 60% of the plane events were that supporting fire one, and since everyone I know hates planes it was essentially impossible to complete.
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