Awesome. In danger of telling you things you might already know, have some advice from a totally unqualified stranger.
If you go the Kickstarter route, I'd advise you to start a devlog somewhere (eg. Tigsource) and start posting regular updates. Talk about your AI, post regular progress updates, etc, get people interested. It doesn't hurt that your game looks pretty good at it's current state. After a good while, your current updates will inspire confidence that you're dedicated to making your game, and won't just give up, why is the main reason solo projects fail. People will be a lot more confident in backing a Kickstarter then.
Second is your AI. If its your selling point, then by god make sure it shows it. Don't just have your trailer claim good AI (heaps of shitty AI games do this) have your AI SHOW its smarts. I'm talking visible reactions that the player can observe. I'd go so far to say that it is more important that your AI seems to be smart than it actually being smart. Stuff like if the chase car loses sight of you, the goons start looking out the windows looking for you. If you're seen to the back left, the back left goon points your way, makes some sort of noise and the others turn your way before the car resumes the chase. If the chase cars communicate your position have the passenger side goon on a phone or radio, and be talking when your position updates. If you have a "pissed off meter" make sure the goons show this!
Thirdly, (and this is biased by personal preference) I think the first person view fits what I've seen of your game's theme/style much better. You could even stick a map/other important info on the passenger seat to split the player's focus between the road ahead, the rear-vision mirror, and the map.
Lastly, VR... supposedly coming this year. Your game would have much less competition on VR. I recommend at least looking into it - I think the fear aspect of the chase would be greatly amplified. If that's what you going for.
Best of luck with the project.
[QUOTE=Matto;49630792]Awesome. In danger of telling you things you might already know, have some advice from a totally unqualified stranger.
If you go the Kickstarter route, I'd advise you to start a devlog somewhere (eg. Tigsource) and start posting regular updates. Talk about your AI, post regular progress updates, etc, get people interested. It doesn't hurt that your game looks pretty good at it's current state. After a good while, your current updates will inspire confidence that you're dedicated to making your game, and won't just give up, why is the main reason solo projects fail. People will be a lot more confident in backing a Kickstarter then.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I appreciate your advice very much and feel it's not unqualified at all. I did start a devlog on Tigsource about a year ago, didn't get any immediate feedback, and forgot about it. Last year, working on the animation film had highest priority so I had almost no time to dedicate to the game - hence, no updates. I chuckled to myself about the confidence and not giving up. Heck, I've just spent 5(!) years working on my new 15 minutes long animation film! The road was bumpy as hell, full of fuck-ups, delays and personal drama (initially, the film was supposed to be released in June 2012!). I'm not the kind of human that gives-up. But these are just words on the internet, so what you're suggesting makes perfect sense.
I'm kind of more and more inclined to releasing a prototype/demo, so that potential backers could check for themselves how the game feels instead of just relying on hype-inducing phrases and videos.
[QUOTE=Matto;49630792]Second is your AI. If its your selling point, then by god make sure it shows it. Don't just have your trailer claim good AI (heaps of shitty AI games do this) have your AI SHOW its smarts. I'm talking visible reactions that the player can observe. I'd go so far to say that it is more important that your AI seems to be smart than it actually being smart. Stuff like if the chase car loses sight of you, the goons start looking out the windows looking for you. If you're seen to the back left, the back left goon points your way, makes some sort of noise and the others turn your way before the car resumes the chase. If the chase cars communicate your position have the passenger side goon on a phone or radio, and be talking when your position updates. If you have a "pissed off meter" make sure the goons show this![/QUOTE]
I agree with you 100% and those goon behaviors are planned - just haven't come that far yet. I might also have misused the term "AI": what I mean is programming the NPC cars to drive so well that they match the driving of the most skilled player, with controlled late braking and skidding and without any form of cheating on the physics. Might seem that I'm over-obsessed with achieving this (and now, finally, I feel that I did succeed to achieve such a behavior), here's one reason why:
In 2011, I made a simple prototype, just driving a car in a dark landscape. In 2012, we got a 10K grant from the french national film fund and payed a french company to build a more advanced prototype with car-chase gameplay. Long story short, the result was a disaster. The AI was a fucking joke, and to top it off, I was told that my goal is way too ambitious and not possible to achieve. With 10K gone and my dream being crushed, I had an emotional breakdown, drank a bottle of pastis in my hotel room and passed out. I like the saying that "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger", so without any prior programming knowledge, I swore to myself that I'll prove that my concept can be done and got to work.
Thinking about the AI, I'm not sure if it's actually the strongest selling point. I've always been told that my strongest skill is creating a unique atmosphere. One of the reasons I got into game-dev is that many of my fans were disappointed that my films are too short and that they would have loved to stay in their universe a little longer. Honestly, I don't see the technical stuff as being the essence of the experience - it should just feel natural and be in symbiosis with all the other elements. For example, I'm planning to have some muddy areas with terrain deformation, but I wouldn't brag about it as a selling point:
[video=youtube;1GH3eOYieVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GH3eOYieVo[/video]
[QUOTE=Matto;49630792]Thirdly, (and this is biased by personal preference) I think the first person view fits what I've seen of your game's theme/style much better. You could even stick a map/other important info on the passenger seat to split the player's focus between the road ahead, the rear-vision mirror, and the map.[/QUOTE]
While I agree, I'm a bit worried about this because some elements, like the aforementioned terrain deformation or car damage, could not be viewed from a cockpit perspective...
[QUOTE=Matto;49630792]Lastly, VR... supposedly coming this year. Your game would have much less competition on VR. I recommend at least looking into it - I think the fear aspect of the chase would be greatly amplified. If that's what you going for.[/QUOTE]
I'll definitely look into it! :)
[QUOTE=Matto;49630792]Best of luck with the project.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, and I really appreciate your feedback.
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49634858]
In 2011, I made a simple prototype, just driving a car in a dark landscape. In 2012, we got a 10K grant from the french national film fund and payed a french company to build a more advanced prototype with car-chase gameplay. Long story short, the result was a disaster. The AI was a fucking joke, and to top it off, I was told that my goal is way too ambitious and not possible to achieve. With 10K gone and my dream being crushed, I had an emotional breakdown, drank a bottle of pastis in my hotel room and passed out. I like the saying that "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger", [B]so without any prior programming knowledge[/B], I swore to myself that I'll prove that my concept can be done and got to work.[/QUOTE]
wow
yo man, you the man :shock:
also what are you building this in?
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49634858]While I agree, I'm a bit worried about this because some elements, like the aforementioned terrain deformation or car damage, could not be viewed from a cockpit perspective...[/QUOTE]
Those of us who love first person in games like this do it partially because -not- witnessing these things and having to guess at it makes it more immersive.
Never thought I'd be this excited for a game where you're a bunny driving a car getting chased by a bunch of gigantic ass white dudes but diggity does your style look good. The film-maker in you has transitioned really well into game development.
[QUOTE=thefreemann;49635294]also what are you building this in?[/QUOTE]
Unity3D - the best engine with the worst reputation :dance: So far, I'm pretty happy with it and coding in C# is nice.
[QUOTE=Treelor;49636061]Those of us who love first person in games like this do it partially because -not- witnessing these things and having to guess at it makes it more immersive.[/QUOTE]
Well, I guess we have a deal. First + third person view shall it be :smile:
if you make first person, i'm not sure how difficult it is to add VR support. I'm a trackir user and i'll be one for probably another couple of years when vr becomes more affordable/practical, but you could maybe look in to adding head tracking support too. i'm pretty sure trackir is essentially a string of code you just add in to the game and a third party program (the trackir software for users) takes care of the rest. if you're curious you can ask for the "sdk" [url=https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/developers/]here[/url] but i wouldn't put it past you to not bother since head tracking is becoming an aged technology. it's super nice to have though
[QUOTE=69105;49640624]if you make first person, i'm not sure how difficult it is to add VR support. I'm a trackir user and i'll be one for probably another couple of years when vr becomes more affordable/practical, but you could maybe look in to adding head tracking support too. i'm pretty sure trackir is essentially a string of code you just add in to the game and a third party program (the trackir software for users) takes care of the rest. if you're curious you can ask for the "sdk" [url=https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/developers/]here[/url] but i wouldn't put it past you to not bother since head tracking is becoming an aged technology. it's super nice to have though[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I remember some of my colleagues used trackIR back in 2006. Seems it's proven to withstand the test of time. Should definitely be possible, found this: [url]https://github.com/medsouz/Unity-TrackIR-Plugin-DLL[/url]
Holy shit, this looks amazing. Your style+mechanics makes this very promising.
[QUOTE=matt000024;49649152]Holy shit, this looks amazing. Your style+mechanics makes this very promising.[/QUOTE]
Thanks!
[editline]13th February 2016[/editline]
[editline]13th February 2016[/editline]
Hey everyone! Raced with an AI car and recorded a video today. Can you tell which car is player-controlled? Yellow car or blue car? :smile:
[video=youtube;Ua4S0eX4kwU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua4S0eX4kwU[/video]
This is coming along great. As for which car is being controlled [sp]I want to say the yellow car but I'm not sure about that[/sp]
I'd say the blue car as it lagged behind quite a bit.
The yellow car
how aggressive will the AI get?
your positive attitude is just icing on this wonderful looking cake
This is seriously amazing.
this is awesome. reminds me a lot of spintires.
please keep up the great work, i would gladly waste months on this game and i have (sadly) seen so many promising projects suddenly disappear.
Thank you all for the great comments! You guys rock :smile:
[QUOTE=69105;49739945]how aggressive will the AI get?[/QUOTE]
Not 100% sure what you mean specifically. What is planned is this: first, the goons will try to stop you without damaging your car too much -> if they succeed, they'll steal your car and eat you.
If they don't, then they'll keep on chasing, with increased aggressiveness, and if unsuccessful, call in other cars to help with the chase. While they get more and more pissed off, they will be making more driving mistakes.
At one point I have been thinking about a gun shooting response, after the "pissed-off" meter hits a certain level - but I would really like to be able to avoid that and instead compensate with a really skilled driving AI.
[QUOTE=thecubanpimp;49746726]this is awesome. reminds me a lot of spintires.
please keep up the great work, i would gladly waste months on this game and i have (sadly) seen so many promising projects suddenly disappear.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! This project won't disappear, well unless I die. Too much time, affection and energy has already been invested - and the point of no return has long been passed. It might take a while before it's released though, and now's the time to get a team together so it can progress at a more reasonable speed.
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49755566]
At one point I have been thinking about a gun shooting response, after the "pissed-off" meter hits a certain level - but I would really like to be able to avoid that and instead compensate with a really skilled driving AI.[/QUOTE]
I have an idea, no idea if it's any good or feasible.
You know how your design is open world? And games like GTA can spawn cars with spike strips ahead of you? How about maybe having some AI find a route to cut you off, get out and drop a spike strip? Keeping it all within actual entities would be cool to see, but spike strips might not fit the context of this either.
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49755566]Not 100% sure what you mean specifically. What is planned is this: first, the goons will try to stop you without damaging your car too much -> if they succeed, they'll steal your car and eat you.
If they don't, then they'll keep on chasing, with increased aggressiveness, and if unsuccessful, call in other cars to help with the chase. While they get more and more pissed off, they will be making more driving mistakes.[/QUOTE]
right now it just looks like the ai chases you and doesn't make much of an effort to pit you or anything. it makes the car chases look cool but it also makes you not very worried if you know the ai won't actually try to do anything to ruin your car or theirs
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49627286]This is an older test I did - for the 5% of you, who prefer cockpit view ;)
[video=youtube;LfU7Bee3CDA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfU7Bee3CDA[/video][/QUOTE]
The cockpit view and the way the camera isn't completely static is more than enough for me to want to check this game out when it's out. Everything about this in general looks fucking great.
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49755566]
At one point I have been thinking about a gun shooting response, after the "pissed-off" meter hits a certain level - but I would really like to be able to avoid that and instead compensate with a really skilled driving AI.[/QUOTE]
To be honest I personally would prefer it if there weren't guns, just pure shooting. Something that I can suggest may be that they start to set up roadblocks or put junk on the road to try mess you up. Would increase the challenge without adding something that I don't think would fit.
You've got a really nice attitude regarding this project, and are keeping us regularly updated with videos and screenshots so I really do hope that this ends up working out and reaches a release date. I'd gladly spend money on it if it turns out as you say it will.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
And you've been working on this by yourself?
Fucking incredible, there are full dev teams that keep people less informed than you are.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
It just popped into my mind that this game also has a really big Mad Max (more Mad Max 1 than the others) vibe to it, which is also something that makes me more excited for this.
Hows the development going? I want to play this.
Yeah any news?
[QUOTE=TheAdmiester;49755795]I have an idea, no idea if it's any good or feasible.
You know how your design is open world? And games like GTA can spawn cars with spike strips ahead of you? How about maybe having some AI find a route to cut you off, get out and drop a spike strip? Keeping it all within actual entities would be cool to see, but spike strips might not fit the context of this either.[/QUOTE]
You're right, spike strips would be effective, but I'm affraid it would get annoying driving with burst tires.
[QUOTE=69105;49759712]right now it just looks like the ai chases you and doesn't make much of an effort to pit you or anything. it makes the car chases look cool but it also makes you not very worried if you know the ai won't actually try to do anything to ruin your car or theirs[/QUOTE]
There are some PIT attempts in the OP video although they are not that advanced. I've been working on this during the last months. Most recent progress further down this post :)
[QUOTE=Araknid;49764958]The cockpit view and the way the camera isn't completely static is more than enough for me to want to check this game out when it's out. Everything about this in general looks fucking great..[/QUOTE]
Thanks! :smile:
[QUOTE=Araknid;49764958]To be honest I personally would prefer it if there weren't guns, just pure shooting. Something that I can suggest may be that they start to set up roadblocks or put junk on the road to try mess you up. Would increase the challenge without adding something that I don't think would fit.[/QUOTE]
I agree, and roadblocks are planned. But first, I have to implement a damage system, as right now, there's no penalty for crashing into things.
[QUOTE=Araknid;49764958]You've got a really nice attitude regarding this project, and are keeping us regularly updated with videos and screenshots so I really do hope that this ends up working out and reaches a release date. I'd gladly spend money on it if it turns out as you say it will.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
And you've been working on this by yourself?
Fucking incredible, there are full dev teams that keep people less informed than you are.
[editline]18th February 2016[/editline]
It just popped into my mind that this game also has a really big Mad Max (more Mad Max 1 than the others) vibe to it, which is also something that makes me more excited for this.[/QUOTE]
Hey thanks! I'm trying to post new stuff as frequently as I can. Thing is, it takes quite some time before I'm satisfied with the results and see them as post-worthy. Just like with the new stopping maneuvers below.
Mad Max was one of my favorite films when I was a teen. Just re-watched it not so long ago and I was surprised how "romantic" it is. Didn't really remember those parts anymore. I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the sequels. But yeah, it definitely left a mark on my soul. Still, one of my most beloved films is Vanishing Point (1971). If you haven't seen it, be sure to grab the extended UK version.
[QUOTE=Zovox;50092239]Hows the development going? I want to play this.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=feloix13;50094766]Yeah any news?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, some news!
Been working on stopping maneuvers the last two months (and I've also perfected further the driving behavior of the AI).
OK, so how do you stop a car with a single vehicle?
After extensive thinking and testing, it appears that the most effective way, is to perform a PIT maneuver. But then what? I need the player car to be immobilized, at least for some time, so the mean blokes can exit their car(s) and finish the job. Ideally the player car would get pushed into slippery terrain where it will take time to recover - or get pushed into a tree/building/streetlamp dealing significant damage to the car. So I came up with this enhancement where the player car will be pushed right after the PIT is performed. It's called Pit n' Push :smile::
[img]http://i.imgur.com/0QdMJcL.gif?1[/img]
Side-ramming is quite fine too, but there have to be road-side objects present for it to work:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/G1NEcz3.gif?1[/img]
Blocking doesn't really work with a single enemy car (+ it's somewhat annoying). With a heavier car it's better and I'll keep it, for once I start implementing multiple enemy car behaviours. For example: one car would block in front and another car at the back would perform a PIT.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/EMvMkCM.gif?1[/img]
That's it for now. Next up are:
* Obstacle avoidance
* Damage system
* Multiple enemy car behavior & tactics
* Character animation system (so the goons can get out of the car and beat the shit out of the player)
On the more general side of things, I've been thinking about the demo version a lot. Long gone are the days where projects with some concept art, some written blah blah, and maybe a video would get crowdfunded. Backers have become wary and that's totally understandable. So a demo must be. The big question is whether I have the necessary abilities to deliver one. To make it optimized so it will run on older hardware and multiple platforms, to add a save system, GUI and all the other elements expected. Maybe I'll try crowdfunding a much smaller amount of money specifically for the demo to be able to pay a real programmer. Maybe just do a reduced tech demo with only the driving and chasing elements. Those are the decisions that lie imminently ahead.
Man, those gifs look absolutely amazing. Im really impressed with how well you're going.
Crowd funding wise I think it would be best if you go low, people could hopefully be pressed by the gifts, but the most important part is having a tech demo as you say and reaching out to youtubers and streamers to play it. That'd be your main source of traffic.
Programming wise, I think just a basic scene to drive around in and be chased in is more than enough. I remember next car game and that one Russian forest driving game both had simple tech demos that were enjoyable.
You're gonna make so they can get out and beat the shit out of us?
Oh man I can't wait lol
Make it so they get in their car and leave after they've beaten you up, only to have the game end while you're just laying there in pain
[editline]11th April 2016[/editline]
Also; how do you win? By surviving until sunrise?
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;50107156]* Damage system[/QUOTE][url]https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/41801[/url] Pretty please
There's a demo of a car as well: [url]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90990851/RedCar.zip[/url]
[QUOTE=Wazbat;50107809]Man, those gifs look absolutely amazing. Im really impressed with how well you're going.[/QUOTE]
:smile: Thank you! It's getting better and better. I just checked some older videos I recorded last year, and I couldn't believe how bad they look compared to the new stuff.
[QUOTE=Wazbat;50107809]Crowd funding wise I think it would be best if you go low, people could hopefully be pressed by the gifts, but the most important part is having a tech demo as you say and reaching out to youtubers and streamers to play it. That'd be your main source of traffic.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, gifts. That will be interesting. I have to say I've got no idea what to offer, apart from the usual t-shirt/artbook/soundtrack/signed poster stuff...
[QUOTE=Wazbat;50107809]Programming wise, I think just a basic scene to drive around in and be chased in is more than enough. I remember next car game and that one Russian forest driving game both had simple tech demos that were enjoyable.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good to me, and you're right, Spintires had a pretty small area to drive around and NCG had like two tracks and two cars, if I remember correctly.
Well, I'll go look for a programmer so I have at least some more competent guidance. Unfortunately I live in Munich now, while all of my contacts are in Prague.
[QUOTE=Zovox;50110294]You're gonna make so they can get out and beat the shit out of us?
Oh man I can't wait lol
Make it so they get in their car and leave after they've beaten you up, only to have the game end while you're just laying there in pain[/QUOTE]
Yeah :smile: They wont leave you in your car but do something much worse...
[QUOTE=Zovox;50110294]Also; how do you win? By surviving until sunrise?[/QUOTE]
Metaphorically speaking, yes. Artificial sunrise :smile:
[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;50110525][url]https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/41801[/url] Pretty please
There's a demo of a car as well: [url]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90990851/RedCar.zip[/url][/QUOTE]
Check out post #23, second response :smile:
I'm not sure I see a game in this yet but that is to be expected, but my god your work with that AI is great. Having worked with unity and c# myself I'm amazed that you have no programming experience.
Those last gifs you posted are fantastic. You're really on to something with that atmosphere you have going there. Looks a little empty, but again, that is to be expected. Sub'd to this thread, can't wait to see more.
What's the music in the first trailer? I like it plenty!
[QUOTE=SoulChallenge;49532030]
my last animation film (2010, full length) best viewed after smoking the devil's weed :smug:
[video=vimeo;80706397]https://vimeo.com/80706397[/video][/QUOTE]
Yes, a good combination for an anxiety attack
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50193266]What's the music in the first trailer? I like it plenty![/QUOTE]
It's music from the animation film, composed by Guillaume Blondeau. He's been doing sound for all my projects since 2003. Here's another one you might enjoy:
[video=youtube;5qFhKA-yT0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFhKA-yT0Q[/video]
[QUOTE=Talishmar;50193266]Yes, a good combination for an anxiety attack[/QUOTE]
lol :ohno::smile:
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