The Elder Scrolls Megathread XX: Might as well be XXX

[Ganerumo]

This reminds me of the guy who made up this here fake memo:
[t]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gw56fC_p--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/qehorz79wjrhdgsm7qdd.jpg[/t]
Back in 2014, and despite its now explicitly fake nature, he fucking guessed Fallout 4's imminent announcement, its geographical location, and the name of its last DLC.

And then in an interview with Kotaku he said he wanted to release a fake rumor about watch_dogs 2 being in development but he deemed it too fantastical for anyone to believe.

This man may have been bullshitting but he managed to bullshit accurately so I'm still convinced the next game will be Valenwood.

[BloodShot12]

I just want the next ES game to have cities feel like actual cities and not villages.

I'm not asking for daggerfall scale, but at least something bigger than bruma from obl

[_charon]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52462657]This reminds me of the guy who made up this here fake memo:
[t]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gw56fC_p--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/qehorz79wjrhdgsm7qdd.jpg[/t]
Back in 2014, and despite its now explicitly fake nature, he fucking guessed Fallout 4's imminent announcement, its geographical location, and the name of its last DLC.

And then in an interview with Kotaku he said he wanted to release a fake rumor about watch_dogs 2 being in development but he deemed it too fantastical for anyone to believe.

This man may have been bullshitting but he managed to bullshit accurately so I'm still convinced the next game will be Valenwood.[/QUOTE]

Fallout 4 and the location were both really obvious (I'm more surprised to find out that Bethesda wasn't set on Boston from the start), but guessing Nuka World is nothing short of clairvoyant given how out of nowhere that was.

Then again, Trainwiz apparently caught a bit of the same prophecy. CHIM or something.

[Ganerumo]

Even if they spent the necessary amount of time making these cities as big as they could be, even bringing them up to their Oblivion size, there would still be the problem of performance and I don't know if there's a way to get around that without a straight up engine change.

Beyond Skyrim: Bruma made it obvious that using Oblivion style city architecture in a more taxing engine fucking [I]slays[/I] FPS, there's no real way around it. Especially if you want the city to have an accurate number of residents.

[ROFLBURGER]

[QUOTE=Ott;52461413]I mean, Oblivion was bigger than Skyrim.[/QUOTE]

Skyrim compensated for that by introducing blackreach.

Here are the to-scale heightmaps for

skyrim, morrowind
oblivion

[url]http://imgur.com/a/n7hV4[/url]

solid yellow means it's an unplayable area, and oblivion actually had a bunch of unplayable areas that you could not go to that were still mapped.

[Ganerumo]

It doesn't seem to really take in account the sheer clusterfuck of mountains that is Skyrim though.

Like I've been playing both games back to back and Oblivion gives you [I]considerably[/I] more leeway in terms of navigating the world, exacerbated by the fact you can boost your running and jumping to be able to bypass most of these obstacles.

[ROFLBURGER]

[QUOTE=FpShepard;52462225]I think the setting would contrast well with Skyrim's cold and snowy mountains, tundras etc. [sp] The creation engine would probably shit itself if it had to render a tropical forest though [/sp][/QUOTE]

Which is why I really want the next game to take place in hammerfell/high rock. They would be fools to do Valenwood first.

When you establish a multi-area rpg via lore you're going to do the easiest to render first then hardest to render last unless you want to do what they did with oblivion and retcon the climate.

If I was bethesda I would do, in order

- hammerfell + high rock expansion
- summerset isle
- valenwood + yiff
- rrerr

[Loadingue]

[QUOTE=Ruby_Axe;52461433]I gotta agree with this, the closest we got to accurate scale was Daggerfall, Beth could scale any of the countries to fit a larger map no matter where they set it[/QUOTE]

Problem is, there's a thing called "too big for fun". You practically never find games that have realistically sized places or worlds because at a point it becomes too annoying to travel it.

True, it also depends on the means you're given to travel, but balancing is very largely preferred among devs instead of realism.

Just a little parenthesis.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

Point is, I believe the next Elder Scrolls will be about the same size as Skyrim or maybe Fallout 4: some players [I]do[/I] complain that those games are too big.

[Aaron0000]

[QUOTE=Loadingue;52463420]Problem is, there's a thing called "too big for fun". You practically never find games that have realistically sized places or worlds because at a point it becomes too annoying to travel it.

True, it also depends on the means you're given to travel, but balancing is very largely preferred among devs instead of realism.

Just a little parenthesis.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

Point is, I believe the next Elder Scrolls will be about the same size as Skyrim or maybe Fallout 4: some players [I]do[/I] complain that those games are too big.[/QUOTE]

A game that does size justice in this scenario while being similar to Skyrim is Breath of the Wild. The map itself isn't that much bigger than Skyrim, but the usage of the environment, places to discover and the game mechanics itself lend the game a far greater depth than Skyrim might. Just the abilities to climb (without running a horse up an 89 degree wall, mind you) and glide allow greater use of an environment without having to expand the map horizontally. Vertical in Skyrim amounts to "how can I glitch my way up this wall" or "whoops, giant".

Gif of BotW's map compared to OoT, Twilight Princess, and Skyrim's maps.
[url]http://imgur.com/gallery/6ro0m3w[/url]

[AMOneEighty]

Sorry if requests are frowned upon, but can anyone help me out with an armor mod? I'm using the Judeau armor([url]http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/51354/?tab=2&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D51354&pUp=1[/url]) for my character, but I don't like how the pauldron is asymmetrical, I know it's accurate to the actual armor but I was wondering if there was a way to mirror the arm guard so both arms use the pauldron. I tried using a tutorial but it was more for creating your own armor from scratch.

[Pastaspace]

[QUOTE=_charon;52462996]Fallout 4 and the location were both really obvious (I'm more surprised to find out that Bethesda wasn't set on Boston from the start), but guessing Nuka World is nothing short of clairvoyant given how out of nowhere that was.

Then again, Trainwiz apparently caught a bit of the same prophecy. CHIM or something.[/QUOTE]

I mean, it's not that much of a stretch to equate Nuka Cola with Coca Cola and thus make a Coca Cola World derivative. My own amusement park mod came about because Six Flags NE is super famous and super close to Boston (and probably about the same location Nuka World is).
Not clairvoyance, just a bit of sitting down and thinking about things is all.

[SirJon]

Valenwood would be great. Plenty of elves to kill

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=Loadingue;52463420]Problem is, there's a thing called "too big for fun". You practically never find games that have realistically sized places or worlds because at a point it becomes too annoying to travel it.

True, it also depends on the means you're given to travel, but balancing is very largely preferred among devs instead of realism.

Just a little parenthesis.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

Point is, I believe the next Elder Scrolls will be about the same size as Skyrim or maybe Fallout 4: some players [I]do[/I] complain that those games are too big.[/QUOTE]

Honestly I don't mind the world size, I think it's a good fit. What I do mind is the tiny size of cities. I can not possibly get immersed when the Capital of the continent, the Imperial City, has fewer than 200 residents.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=gk99;52447441]They did dumb it down, agility and athletics are straight-up gone. It had Health, Magicka, and [I]Stamina[/I], which only affected how much you could carry, how long you could sprint, and how much you could power attack.

I think Skyrim's levelling system is really good, but it's the perks and trees that need to be better. I want a tree that makes me jump/move faster and making unarmed not shit would be nice, too.

[editline]a[/editline]

Let me be One-Punch Man damn it[/QUOTE]

Skyrim did fix the leveling as far as the awful bonus system goes. The higher the skill the more it contributes to level progression, which is a lot more comprehensible, neat and more flexible. They shouldn't have entirely removed character creation (stats) though, what's the harm in having some skills start at 30 instead of 15?

Also yeah the agility, that was a shame. Being able to make a very quick, agile character was awesome. I wish Bethesda had a more compromising initiative and tried to tweak and fix their icky features rather than going 'LOL REMOVE IT'

Generally there's the theme with Bethesda being more and more restrictive, which is pretty fucking dumb in an RPG game.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52447528]Bring back:
Medium armour
Most skills from oblivion
Spell creation
Staff creation
Goblin enemies and all the other common enemies

Give:
Fallout style perks
More weapon variety (like SPEARS)

What else?[/QUOTE]

Don't end the Guild quest lines as headmaster of a guild. It makes no sense to have the guild master never ever care about the affairs of the guild, and it also makes no sense that the character can be head of all the guilds.

Not to mention, since there's no guild management, what's the point of being guild master anyway? It has neither any game play value nor immersion value. The last guild rank should be some sort of high, prestigious rank but one that would not bring with itself bureaucratic, day-to-day duties 'In Lore'.

[editline]13th July 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=butre;52451617]oblivion lockpicking. going to fallout lockpicking in skyrim was fucking dumb.[/QUOTE]

I really don't understand all the love for Oblivions lockpicking minigame recently. It was utter garbage, it was artificially difficult because it was directly tied to your security skill.

[Glent]

[QUOTE=SirJon;52465476]I really don't understand all the love for Oblivions lockpicking minigame recently. It was utter garbage, it was artificially difficult because it was directly tied to your security skill.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I just found it more fun than Skyrim's lockpicking system. Being able to resolve it entirely with a skill check is also good, making the minigame optional. But it's pretty subjective reasoning.

[Fulgrim]

I really hope we see an ES game in another one of the Elf homelands.
I'm not as offended by generic medieval fantasy settings as some people are, but I really think we need to explore somewhere more alien and outlandish eventually.

Plus I always play elves so it would be nice to have a story that my character didn't feel ever so slightly awkward in.

[DiscoInferno]

It's kind of really hard to "properly" super-ultra-immersive-mega-realistic-7-hour-erection-4k-8k-pepperoni-and-cheese roleplay in Skyrim because of the world size. I'm not going to give Bethesda flack for making the work actually traversable on foot, but it only dawned on me that if one was to plot a whole coheasive story of the player character as things are in the game when casually playing it then you can't really have them hopping about cities willy-nilly. Especially my character who as of now is still trying to get to Hammerfell while going from Whiterun to Solitude like it's nothing. I know intra-province travel would be easier than inter-province but that's still a long distance in-universe for the goal of leaving Skyrim. I guess Sheva could be sight-seeing somewhat...

Just to reiterate, I'm not moaning at Bethyboo for making the gameworld the size that it is, I'm reasonably sure a land the size of Daggerfall would be a trek for the ages and either a perpetual WIP or just empty space. Just saying, if ultimate realism in-game is your goal you can't take anything for granted.

[gk99]

[QUOTE=Glent;52465601]Personally, I just found it more fun than Skyrim's lockpicking system. Being able to resolve it entirely with a skill check is also good, making the minigame optional. But it's pretty subjective reasoning.[/QUOTE]

I prefer Fallout 3's system because Oblivion's lockpicking always took fucking forever for me, and that's assuming I didn't fuck anything up and lose progress on unrelated pins because of it.

Note: I say Fallout 3 because in Skyrim ownards the lock no longer shakes more the further you are away from the sweet spot, making it total guesswork until the lock starts moving, which is not the case in FO3 or NV.

[MegaJohnny]

[QUOTE=SirJon;52465476]I really don't understand all the love for Oblivions lockpicking minigame recently. It was utter garbage, it was artificially difficult because it was directly tied to your security skill.[/QUOTE]
Not really - if you can reliably succeed on a tumbler when it goes up slowly, you can get any lock at any skill level. If it's going to be like that, I honestly think locks should be gated by difficulty level and character skill.

[Ganerumo]

Oblivion's lockpicking would have been better with proper controls and if it was more about careful timing and less about spamming the mouse until you get the slow moving pin.

[DiscoInferno]

i want lockpicking to be replaced with a baywatch nights trivia game

and all chests should open to reveal a pin-up of david hasselhoff's chest

it's the only way to increase sales

[Slendermang]

[QUOTE=gk99;52465911]I prefer Fallout 3's system because Oblivion's lockpicking always took fucking forever for me, and that's assuming I didn't fuck anything up and lose progress on unrelated pins because of it.

Note: I say Fallout 3 because in Skyrim ownards the lock no longer shakes more the further you are away from the sweet spot, making it total guesswork until the lock starts moving, which is not the case in FO3 or NV.[/QUOTE]

I'd prefer being able to force locks like in Fallout if your skill level is high enough.

[Artix3]

I recently came back to Oblivion for the first time in seven years and I'm having way more fun with Oblivion's lockpicking than FO3/Skyrim/FO4's system. I have a friend who absolutely can't figure out Oblivion's lockpicking.

The ability to force the lock with a high skill level would be a nice compromise but I feel like that would eat through lockpicks at an alarming rate.

[ROFLBURGER]

Oblivion lockpicking would've been better if it was actual lockpicking but even then I'm not sure if oblivion is actual medieval lockpicking or what.
I actually got a lockpicking training kit yesterday. Obviously picking a tumbler lock is nothing like in oblivion considering how I could actually pick a 6 pin tumbler practice lock (see: transparent lock) irl faster than I could a 5 pin lock in oblivion at ~25 security.

For that matter I'm not even sure if this is a good lock, lock wise and physics wise.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/7glBTld.png[/img]

I'm dastardly confused as to where the lock is actually positioned. The background makes it confusing since you think you're looking at a lock [URL="http://i.imgur.com/V81TXWz.png"]like this[/URL]. But the point is that in order to open the door, the sliding piece of medal (A) needs to be moved past the crack, but those 5 brass pins are stopping it.

In order to move those brass pins (B), you must get them all past a certain line (C) by hitting the pins and I guess applying tension or something when they're at the very top. It's unclear what actually makes a pin stay there since there would be nothing holding them up. In reality it would be the pull tension applied to the sliding piece of metal (A) but you only apply the tension when the pin is at the very top. When you hit the pin, it defies physics and bounces upwards until it hits the top, no clue what would make it bounce like that since there's a pretty thick spring in there.

The lockpick (D) is also pretty garbage to use, you have so much space you can use, it doesn't need to be that thin.

[URL="http://i.imgur.com/3OGiz9g.png"]The beauty of it that you could pick any lock with just 1 key since they're all the same design. You just need to slide it in, push upwards, then pull.[/URL]

[goldhammah]

I love Oblivion's lockpicking system, you just have to grind Alteration.

[butre]

[QUOTE=SirJon;52465476]
I really don't understand all the love for Oblivions lockpicking minigame recently. It was utter garbage, it was artificially difficult because it was directly tied to your security skill.[/QUOTE]

its an rpg of course its tied to a skill

[Ganerumo]

Oblivion lockpicking gets ultra repetitive because as roflburger pointed out the pins never actually change.

The lock itself seems to be based off an ancient Egyptian lock mechanism which works exactly like he described and is just as easily bypassed:
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Egyptian_Lock_Mechanism_Locked.png[/t][t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Egyptian_Lock_Mechanism_Unlocked.png[/t]

Instead of being based on a more modern mechanism where the pins are actually two parts and the shape of the key aligns them properly, which would make lockpicking a whole lot more fun and a lot more diverse.

[Captain]

I didn't like the lockpicking in Oblivion. That's why I always get the Skeleton Key the moment I can and just mash auto attempt for the rest of the game. :v:

[gk99]

[QUOTE=Goldhammah;52466557]I love Oblivion's lockpicking system, you just have to grind Alteration.[/QUOTE]

To date I think I've only done two runs that have [I]any[/I] sort of focus on non-restoration magic, and they're both in Skyrim, and one of them is actually right now. Magic just feels like a massive pain in the ass to use instead of all the other means of getting shit killed, especially considering how broken stealth is+magic's incompatibility with stealth.

[Ganerumo]

Going stealth illusion can be hilarious in Skyrim, but that's really it.

In Oblivion thanks to spellmaking it's really as fun as you can make the spells, and it can get pretty hilarious.

Like Demoralize + Fortify Speed + Fire Damage over time to turn someone into a screaming ball of flames that runs everywhere at turbo speeds

[_charon]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52466660]Going stealth illusion can be hilarious in Skyrim, but that's really it.

In Oblivion thanks to spellmaking it's really as fun as you can make the spells, and it can get pretty hilarious.

Like Demoralize + Fortify Speed + Fire Damage over time to turn someone into a screaming ball of flames that runs everywhere at turbo speeds[/QUOTE]

spamming fury spells from a distance is the best thing

[Ganerumo]

Also funny to craft a really expensive sword, enchant it, then drop it in the middle of a bandit hideout and shout Throw Voice at it.

Then you watch as they gut each other to keep the sword :v: