• The Elder Scrolls Megathread XX: Might as well be XXX
    3,795 replies, posted
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52762619]I wonder how a modern PC only BETHESDA game would be.[/QUOTE] Knowing Bethesda they'd still probably fuck it up
[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52762613]You still don't understand. Especially considering in 2011 we had Witcher 2 which looked really good at the time. Plenty of other games in 2011 that looked better. Bethesda is backwards.[/QUOTE] Skyrim was pretty on-par graphically with most [B]open world[/B] games of the era. You can't really compare an open world title to a linear title in terms of engine and visual presentation. CK is a backward engine in all manners of ways but its visual presentation isn't its main issue. It's deeper technical stuff that's problematic and comparing it to CryEngine is absurd in that regard because CryEngine is just as technically messy as CK, just in different ways.
A lot of focus went into making CryEngine look good. It was not the main focus of Skyrim. Personally wouldn't give a shit if the next Elder Scrolls had same graphics as Skyrim if all the focus went to making a better game.
people have been making good games for years, is it so unreasonable to expect both from an incredibly popular AAA studio?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52763008]Skyrim was pretty on-par graphically with most [B]open world[/B] games of the era. You can't really compare an open world title to a linear title in terms of engine and visual presentation. CK is a backward engine in all manners of ways but its visual presentation isn't its main issue. It's deeper technical stuff that's problematic and comparing it to CryEngine is absurd in that regard because CryEngine is just as technically messy as CK, just in different ways.[/QUOTE] It was hardly good looking, what are you smoking. Arguably a game like Stalker looked better with 3 games in series.
[QUOTE=WrathOfCat;52763285]people have been making good games for years, is it so unreasonable to expect both from an incredibly popular AAA studio?[/QUOTE] From publishers more interested in turnover versus longevity? Yes, sadly.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52762619]I wonder how a modern PC only BETHESDA game would be.[/QUOTE] a pc only game from bethesda would be pc only because it can't run on consoles due to how intensive the game is
[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52763348]It was hardly good looking, what are you smoking. Arguably a game like Stalker looked better with 3 games in series.[/QUOTE] Those games look better indoors but the exterior looks the same or worse than Fallout 3 did, even on max settings. If we take Pripyat for example: You have your interiors with some nice lighting effects. [t]https://i.imgur.com/sPhxGY5.jpg[/t] And then you have exteriors: [t]https://i.imgur.com/gJjlWLe.jpg[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/J4Uj2I8.jpg[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/fmAHmWV.jpg[/t] [t]https://i.imgur.com/XHu2sCm.jpg[/t] Skyrim looks a-ok for a 2011 game that was supposed to run on the 360. My main issue is draw distance more than anything.
I keep forgetting how bad STALKER looks by default without the AtmosFEAR mod
I don't think you understand my original point, I'm arguing about technical aspects of these games. Stalker and Crysis been pulling that shit off years before Skyrim. Some games are older but look on par. When Skyrim came out, it didn't even look that good, I still remember launching the game and feeling underwhelmed by everything, except for maybe art direction. I made it clear that game engines before Skyrim already had done something better years before and Bethesda didn't take any cues, such as proper snow shader with tick of a switch in editor which would save a ton of time and wouldn't require someone's time to make copies of individual models with separate shaders. We barely got wetness shader in Fallout 4 just lately and Stalker done that years ago already too. I feel like Fallout 4 improved some engine aspects, but it's still same content workflow that is Bethesda's downfall.
Skyrim mostly lacked colors and proper lighting. You can make the game look intensely better with just a few mods that do nothing but tweak light sources. To be frank I'm also confused why you have such a transcendental boner for snow shaders. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=WrathOfCat;52763285]people have been making good games for years, is it so unreasonable to expect both from an incredibly popular AAA studio?[/QUOTE] Open world titles can only look as good compared to more linear games however, and I think for the sort of design decisions Bethesda takes especially in TES (NPCs with a calculated schedule, large open spaces with as few loading times as possible, large amounts of dynamic/usable objects around the world, relatively persistent entity locations, etc), their games look appropriately good. They could make them look better but it would mean either sacrificing FPS or sacrificing functionality. Fallout 4 is an example of them taking the former decision and as a result the inner city which contains the majority of the game's content is a struggle to run at a constant framerate, let alone at 60. And if you want an example of developers that went the other way you can look at Rockstar or Ubisoft. GTA V prioritized visual fidelity and draw distance over some other things like the amount of pedestrians and cars (parked and active) on screen as well as some finer details like proper rippling water and more complex endorphin behaviors for ragdolls. Assassin's Creed has huge crowds but there is extremely little you can interact with in the world and the crowds themselves do not do anything, with them actually getting dumber every game because they need to remove some of their behaviors in order to make space for visual details instead. The Witcher 3 is another example of a large and beautiful, but mostly static world filled with dummy NPCs that don't do anything and are copy-pastes of one another outside of quest content.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52763679]Skyrim mostly lacked colors and proper lighting. You can make the game look intensely better with just a few mods that do nothing but tweak light sources. To be frank I'm also confused why you have such a transcendental boner for snow shaders. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] Open world titles can only look as good compared to more linear games however, and I think for the sort of design decisions Bethesda takes especially in TES (NPCs with a calculated schedule, large open spaces with as few loading times as possible, large amounts of dynamic/usable objects around the world, relatively persistent entity locations, etc), their games look appropriately good. They could make them look better but it would mean either sacrificing FPS or sacrificing functionality. Fallout 4 is an example of them taking the former decision and as a result the inner city which contains the majority of the game's content is a struggle to run at a constant framerate, let alone at 60. And if you want an example of developers that went the other way you can look at Rockstar or Ubisoft. GTA V prioritized visual fidelity and draw distance over some other things like the amount of pedestrians and cars (parked and active) on screen as well as some finer details like proper rippling water and more complex endorphin behaviors for ragdolls. Assassin's Creed has huge crowds but there is extremely little you can interact with in the world and the crowds themselves do not do anything, with them actually getting dumber every game because they need to remove some of their behaviors in order to make space for visual details instead. The Witcher 3 is another example of a large and beautiful, but mostly static world filled with dummy NPCs that don't do anything and are copy-pastes of one another outside of quest content.[/QUOTE] The witcher 3 isn't static? Doing specific quests will change populations of the cities (nonhumans, mages, criminal organisations gangs just to name a few), who is guarding what and npcs will comment on things you've done. I find the elder scrolls to be much more static except in the ability to kill everyone, but no one comments on the entire cities being empty. You can free merchants, convince people to lower bridges (or kill them). Though I can also argue TES and the Witcher scratch two different itches, as I love the freedom of the TES series character wise. Also the witcher has a very intelligent economy, people complained they weren't making gold and then were trying to dump monster heads off at a quartermaster and wondering why he pays so low.
Radiant AI should've happened already. Radiant economy too. edit Fuck bethesda for spending so much of their budget on big voice actors. Aside from getting Ron Pearlman for fallout intros you just don't fucking need anyone. I can do a fucking [I]Excellent[/I] morrind dunmer voice and they could pay me with a roof and food. I don't wanna belittle voice acting, but bethesda really didn't need Patrick stewart or Max Von Whatever, they needed more people to fix bugs and plow more quality content into their games.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52763679]Skyrim mostly lacked colors and proper lighting. You can make the game look intensely better with just a few mods that do nothing but tweak light sources. To be frank I'm also confused why you have such a transcendental boner for snow shaders. [/QUOTE] I literally used snow shader as an example to explain their backwardness when it comes to tech, plus simple things that could have sped up the workflow, like a simple shader switch, instead some low paid 3d artist intern schmuck sat there making copies for everything. I don't care about mods, when you ship the game you don't ship it with a scenario that someone else will fix your fuck ups. But okay, this is Bethesda we're talking about, they're counting on people to fix their game. I still remember Bethesda having a boner for their own snow shader and showing it off in some video and them being so proud about it, saying it was dynamic too. Dynamic as in, it actually becomes more visible when it starts to snow, of course that didn't work for them too.
[QUOTE=1chains1;52763828]The witcher 3 isn't static? Doing specific quests will change populations of the cities (nonhumans, mages, criminal organisations gangs just to name a few), who is guarding what and npcs will comment on things you've done. I find the elder scrolls to be much more static except in the ability to kill everyone, but no one comments on the entire cities being empty. You can free merchants, convince people to lower bridges (or kill them). Though I can also argue TES and the Witcher scratch two different itches, as I love the freedom of the TES series character wise. Also the witcher has a very intelligent economy, people complained they weren't making gold and then were trying to dump monster heads off at a quartermaster and wondering why he pays so low.[/QUOTE] The Witcher 3's NPCs are still for the most part generic scenery, but the writing is smart enough to change the scenery to reflect your actions - however, each of these characters don't have individual schedules or personalities like what TES games do. Making generic repeated NPCs to populate areas is a common thing in RPGs but the extent varies between games. It's much more rare to see games individually write and put named NPCs which all have their own life whether you're around to see it or not. I guess the game which does it the most extreme extent would be Dwarf Fortress, since literally every single character in that game has a complex personality which can go as far as them having odd fixations, phobias and even PTSD. And the tradeoff is obviously the visual simplicity of the game. [QUOTE=The Jack;52763831]Radiant AI should've happened already. Radiant economy too.[/QUOTE] Radiant AI has been a thing since Oblivion.
So uh. How bout them elder scrolls amirite?
dude i love elder scrolls im so excited for morrowind coming 1997
WHERE THE FUCK IS DAGGERFALL 2
i can't wait to do all the gladiator battles in arena!
Oh boy, I'm hoping this series will still be around in 2010 and will always have meaningful role-play with varied and impactful quests!
I dunno, playing a game in 3D is just moving too fast. Like, will I even be able to tell what's real and what's fake? Will I break my monitor trying to grab a pixel titty thinking it was a real bodacious babe right in front of me?
yo shadowkey just came out for the ngage portable elder scrolls is rad
Guys! They just announced the next Elder Scrolls game! It's going to take place in Skyrim! I can't wait honestly, there's so much lore that they can explore there
Did you hear? Mr and Mrs Howard had a baby boy! Strange, he's already said his first few words just right out the womb. "Buy Skyrim Remastered", I have no idea what it could mean, maybe it was just baby babble...
in all seriousness was it confirmed if they're working on the next elder scrolls or not? :(
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;52764034]i can't wait to do all the gladiator battles in arena![/QUOTE] If the next TES doesn't have this I'm going to scream.
[QUOTE=war_man333;52764934]in all seriousness was it confirmed if they're working on the next elder scrolls or not? :([/QUOTE] More or less, but no official news yet.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52763861] Radiant AI has been a thing since Oblivion.[/QUOTE] They dialed it back significantly and've never tried to reinstate it.
[QUOTE=The Jack;52765450]They dialed it back significantly and've never tried to reinstate it.[/QUOTE] The only part they've dialed back is characters in Oblivion actually consuming items instead of pretending to, because it caused deeper (and frankly hilarious) issues with NPC interactions, most notorious of which is guards murdering prisoners for a loaf of bread because radiant AI dictated they [I]had[/I] to have dinner. Radiant AI is designed to make NPCs react/interact with the world around them without requiring complex scripts and instead just a list of general directions. Essentially, NPCs have a list every day and they go around completing that list (typically a work/eat/sleep daily schedule). On top of this, they may interact with objects in the world such as dropped items, dead bodies (with different reactions based on the type of NPC and the player's proximity) and the player himself based on the PC's affiliations and skills. That's really all there is to it. People kind of held the whole thing to a crazy high standard because Oblivion had this early demo with really long NPC conversations and this lady casting a paralyze spell on her dog, which were quite obviously scripted sequences meant as a mock-up, overblown by Todd's typical enthusiasm. NPC conversations made their way back rather infamously into Oblivion and were more subdued in Skyrim (Beggars asking for coin with various reactions from NPCs for instance). Even people reacting to dogs was in Skyrim but once again in a more discrete way than people casting spells.
[QUOTE=war_man333;52764934]in all seriousness was it confirmed if they're working on the next elder scrolls or not? :([/QUOTE] You're going to be waiting four years for that overhype conference minimum.
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