Overwatch - Ask me about my D.Va fetish - Games

[QUOTE=shotgun334;51681832]although I kinda was, because let's get real here. there is "larger" positioning (i.e. where you are on the map) in FPS games, but outside of R6 Siege, CS:GO, and very competitive tac-shooters, the specific details of where you're standing and engaging from don't matter, especially once you get into "arcade-ier" shooters. in a MOBA, you have to keep better track of the radii of each area of effect, the exact range limitations of each move you can make and that your opponent can make (doubly so for characters where the range of an attack affects its potency or effects, like reverse falloff), along with exactly where you're standing in regards to the enemy's team, their positions, your teammates, the jungle, creep equilibrium, etc. crowd control is an important part of this-- its efficacy depends on travel times, nearby structures, and the creep wave-- as it's a massive constant of gameplay. crowd control effects mostly don't exist in shooters outside of the rare class-based and hero-shooter exceptions, and positioning isn't as finely-maintained; so, instead of gitting gud and learning how to properly place themselves to mitigate the effectiveness of a Mei, they whine.[/QUOTE] I disagree. Tactical positioning even within small areas of a map was always critical in FPS games. "How many enemies can get line of sight on me? How many enemies can I get line of sight on? Do I have a high ground advantage? What routes could an enemy take to flank my position? From what directions will enemies attack from? If I get attacked or discovered, what are my escape routes? Will my team get reinforcements? Is their team about to get reinforcements? How good is my cover? Where can I hide? Where is the enemy focusing its attention?" Etc. These questions and more are questions that all seasoned FPS players are constantly asking themselves on a subconscious level. Even in arcadier games like the original Doom it was important, so it was critical from the very first. "How many enemies are in this room? Where are they standing? Are some hitscan, are some projectile, and are some melee? Which enemies should I focus on first, from where and how? Can I get monsters to kill themselves with careful positioning and friendly fire? Can I get surrounded from my position? When should I escape?" and more. I shouldn't even have to mention positioning in Serious Sam, the most arcadey of them all. I feel like arguing that positioning even in the most basic FPS games isn't as critical as in other genres is bunk. [editline]16th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Oizen;51681685]Cute & Badass. Next?[/QUOTE] Can't say cute, and badass isn't very good either. "Describe the following [Overwatch] character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the [game] was. Describe this character to your friends like they ain't never [played Overwatch.] The more descriptive you can get, the stronger the character." [url]https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI?t=406[/url]

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682079] Can't say cute. "Describe the following [Overwatch] character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the [game] was. Describe this character to your friends like they ain't never [played Overwatch.]" [url]https://youtu.be/FxKtZmQgxrI?t=406[/url][/QUOTE] What if I find her personality cute? Or is cuteness really only skin deep for you?

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682111]What if I find her personality cute? Or is cuteness really only skin deep for you?[/QUOTE] Not very descriptive either.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682118]Not very descriptive either.[/QUOTE] She's a brave and egotistical cutie who livestreams genocide of sentient life forms for her followers. "badass" I mean we can keep going, but at the end of the day, its just comming to you grasping at straws because you dont like her archetype.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682111]What if I find her personality cute? Or is cuteness really only skin deep for you?[/QUOTE] That's a judgement [I]about[/I] the personality, not an actual personality trait. It's like if I said that, because I (hypothetically) hate Tracer's personality, I think that her biggest personality trait is that she's "terrible". That's not a personality trait, that's just my own personal opinion of her. A personality trait would be something like "caring", "violent", "standoffish", "excitable". Something concrete.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682123]She's a brave and egotistical cutie who livestreams genocide of sentient life forms for her followers. "badass" I mean we can keep going, but at the end of the day, its just comming to you grasping at straws because you dont like her archetype.[/QUOTE] Livestreams. Profession and/or role. -10 points Gryffindor. I don't hate D.Va or any of the characters, I just think they're weak. Take Soldier from TF2 for example. You could say he's mega-patriotic to a fault; his government is his religion. He's absolutely insane, by coming up with ridiculous battle plans that all involve dying for glory or enduring the most pain possible because he believes that battle and pain are the only things that makes life worth living. His absolute stupidity often makes him a comic relief character, and frequently sets events in motion as his antics create chaos for his team and others. For D.Va you can say she's a cute badass. That's about all the insight you get into her character. Egotistical is good!

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682079]I disagree. Tactical positioning even within small areas of a map was always critical in FPS games. "How many enemies can get line of sight on me? How many enemies can I get line of sight on? Do I have a high ground advantage? What routes could an enemy take to flank my position? From what directions will enemies attack from? If I get attacked or discovered, what are my escape routes? Will my team get reinforcements? Is their team about to get reinforcements? How good is my cover? Where can I hide? Where is the enemy focusing its attention?" Etc. These questions and more are questions that all seasoned FPS players are constantly asking themselves on a subconscious level. Even in arcadier games like the original Doom it was important, so it was critical from the very first. "How many enemies are in this room? Where are they standing? Are some hitscan, are some projectile, and are some melee? Which enemies should I focus on first, from where and how? Can I get monsters to kill themselves with careful positioning and friendly fire? Can I get surrounded from my position? When should I escape?" and more. I shouldn't even have to mention positioning in Serious Sam, the most arcadey of them all. I feel like arguing that positioning even in the most basic FPS games isn't as critical as in other genres is bunk. [/url][/QUOTE] I'll give you Serious Sam, and respond with the fact that I imagine about half of Overwatch's playerbase haven't touched it in their lives. As for your questions, in the top paragraph; those are still larger positioning issues, without covering the mathematical minutiae of ground target area and casting issues. The correct positioning output for each of those questions could be a variety of areas in a room, and every single one of them is as valid as your aim is at any given time. Avoiding CC is about paying attention to the reach they have, the exact place you're standing, the exact place they're standing, and what your mobility is. Even without those minor elements that are much more common in MOBAs, there's still the fact that a great many FPS players are dogshit at even meta-positioning, and don't think about where they're standing beyond the most superficial level. Most MOBA players are also dogshit at meta-positioning and minute positioning, because (and this includes me, especially regarding DOTA) a good swath of any given playerbase will be bad at the game.

I like D.Va but yeah her character does need to be expanded beyond "LOL winkey face I'm a gamer girl can't you tell OMG Blizzard referneces ;))" but I'd say the same for a lot of the cast, Junkrat and Roadhog need to be expanded beyond "We're australians, also mad max, also one of us loves explosions a whole big bunch (and we're probably fucking)" I love them but it's true

[QUOTE=shotgun334;51682188]I'll give you Serious Sam, and respond with the fact that I imagine about half of Overwatch's playerbase haven't touched it in their lives. As for your questions, in the top paragraph; those are still larger positioning issues, without covering the mathematical minutiae of ground target area and casting issues. The correct positioning output for each of those questions could be a variety of areas in a room, and every single one of them is as valid as your aim is at any given time. Avoiding CC is about paying attention to the reach they have, the exact place you're standing, the exact place they're standing, and what your mobility is. Even without those minor elements that are much more common in MOBAs, there's still the fact that a great many FPS players are dogshit at even meta-positioning, and don't think about where they're standing beyond the most superficial level. Most MOBA players are also dogshit at meta-positioning and minute positioning, because (and this includes me, especially regarding DOTA) a good swath of any given playerbase will be bad at the game.[/QUOTE] But that sort of stuff is also critical. What's the range of any given weapon? What are projectile travel times? What enemies can attack me? What are attack times? What kind of ultimate advantage do they have? Can that McCree get LOS on me to take me out? Could that Hanzo attack me through a wall? I've never played a MOBA but I don't see this being different from that in this regard. I'm not saying people aren't bad typically I'm saying that I don't buy that fps games lack the depth of other genres for some reason.

So, basically: D.Va - your typical gamer girl (cunt). Mei - adorbs ecologist who want to make the world a better place. Ana - 400% cool sniper grandma. Should I continue?

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682149]Livestreams. Profession and/or role. -10 points Gryffindor. I don't hate D.Va or any of the characters, I just think they're weak. Take Soldier from TF2 for example. You could say he's mega-patriotic to a fault; his government is his religion. He's absolutely insane, by coming up with ridiculous battle plans that all involve dying for glory or enduring the most pain possible because he believes that battle and pain are the only things that makes life worth living. His absolute stupidity often makes him a comic relief character, and frequently sets events in motion as his antics create chaos for his team and others. For D.Va you can say she's a cute badass. That's about all the insight you get into her character. Egotistical is good![/QUOTE] She's not terribly expanded on, mainly because Blizzard seems to be sticking to their comfort zone of old people everyone thought was dead but weren't actually dead but now instead are batman. But to say she doesnt pass some arbitrary Star wars is already pretty false. So far from what I've seen here people are looking for deep and insightful character development from blizzard.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51682211]I like D.Va but yeah her character does need to be expanded beyond "LOL winkey face I'm a gamer girl can't you tell OMG Blizzard referneces ;))" but I'd say the same for a lot of the cast, Junkrat and Roadhog need to be expanded beyond "We're australians, also mad max, also one of us loves explosions a whole big bunch (and we're probably fucking)" I love them but it's true[/QUOTE] I can't wait for Junkrat's tragic backstory where he loses two of his limbs to diabetes.

[QUOTE=Dookas;51681957]"Mercy?" Uhh we might have differing definitions of badass[/QUOTE] A medic working in war zones seems pretty badass to me.

[QUOTE=NoOneKnowsMe;51682286]A medic working in war zones seems pretty badass to me.[/QUOTE] A Medic working in a war zone would be Ana. A Medic hindering her team and dragging everyone down in a war zone would be Mercy.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682297]A Medic working in a war zone would be Ana. A Medic hindering her team and dragging everyone down in a war zone would be Mercy.[/QUOTE] You take that back.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682318]You take that back.[/QUOTE] Heroes Never-aaauaugh

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51681307]I thought he was implying people were mad about Mei because FPS players don't understand positioning (as opposed to something like a MOBA or whatever), and was about to contest him.[/QUOTE] I think you overestimate people. Most players don't even understand the concept of shooting the same enemy as your teammates until around high Master.

I think the worst part of D.Va's character is how much they make her out as this international superstar and she comes off a mary sue (much like many other characters on the roster such as Mercy) but they really lay it on you she's a pro gamer who also defends korea who also is a [I]~movie star~[/I] and [I]~signs autographs~[/I] and has the respect of [I]~everyone she knows~[/I] you could have cut the entire second half of that sentence out and she'd be better for it. I know it's like 50 years in the future but I don't think people will care that much about pro gamers even then :v:

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51682362]I think the worst part of D.Va's character is how much they make her out as this international superstar and she comes off a mary sue (much like many other characters on the roster such as Mercy) but they really lay it on you she's a pro gamer who also defends korea who also is a [I]~movie star~[/I] and [I]~signs autographs~[/I] and has the respect of [I]~everyone she knows~[/I] you could have cut the entire second half of that sentence out and she'd be better for it. I know it's like 50 years in the future but I don't think people will care that much about pro gamers even then :v:[/QUOTE] Most marry sues I know aren't egotistical about it. That is typically a negative trait. I'd say Lucio is probably the biggest mary sue in the game.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682381]Most marry sues I know aren't egotistical about it. That is typically a negative trait. I'd say Lucio is probably the biggest mary sue in the game.[/QUOTE] For me it's probably Mercy, since she's written as a child prodigy super genius pacifist who also literally dresses as an angel and brings people back from the dead, but Lucio is an equally strong contender

Junkrat's the biggest Mary Sue. It's absurd to think that somebody would just give away all those bombs out of the goodness of their heart.

[QUOTE=Altimor;51682343]I think you overestimate people. Most players don't even understand the concept of shooting the same enemy as your teammates until around high Master.[/QUOTE] I'm more concerned about the implication that FPS games lack depth because of lack of positioning minutia when I don't think that's true, and that it does exist.

FPSs don't lack that. Overwatch currently does, considering the best positioning you can be in is a deathball glued to your reinhardt.

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51682259]But that sort of stuff is also critical. What's the range of any given weapon? What are projectile travel times? What enemies can attack me? What are attack times? What kind of ultimate advantage do they have? Can that McCree get LOS on me to take me out? Could that Hanzo attack me through a wall? I've never played a MOBA but I don't see this being different from that in this regard. I'm not saying people aren't bad typically I'm saying that I don't buy that fps games lack the depth of other genres for some reason.[/QUOTE] I don't say that they lack depth, although I can understand where that idea would come from; the depth is in different places, and in different mechanical skills. Aim, reflexes, different forms of strategies, weapon choices, ammo management. The thing about an FPS is that the perspective and movement of a MOBA is fundamentally different to it; because of the way you see a map, a fight between players can be determined literally by the spot you're standing in and how that maneuvering relates to the opponent's play.

The entire thread jerking themselves to Oizen having bad taste is honest to god more frustrating than Oizen jerking their D.Va fetish in public, holy Christ.

[QUOTE=shotgun334;51682437]I don't say that they lack depth, although I can understand where that idea would come from; the depth is in different places, and in different mechanical skills. Aim, reflexes, different forms of strategies, weapon choices, ammo management. The thing about an FPS is that the perspective and movement of a MOBA is fundamentally different to it; because of the way you see a map, a fight between players can be determined literally by the spot you're standing in and how that maneuvering relates to the opponent's play.[/QUOTE] But the same happens in FPS games, especially the classic arcadey ones like Quake 3. It's almost like a chess game, it's all about anticipating your opponent's location in the map and anticipating where they're going and reacting accordingly to maintain a health and armor advantage. "My opponent is going to go after this armor pickup so I can attack him as he goes for it with my railgun, but he knows that I'm watching so he might lay down some grenade or rocket fire to zone me out, to which I can counter by..." A lot of people erroneously reduce competitive FPS play down to aiming and reflex when that's in reality a small piece of the puzzle. It's like the old saying that goes something like this; "Football is 5% physical ability and 95% strategy," which is true. Reflex and aim are important pieces of the puzzle, just like how strength and speed are important in football, but the majority of the game is the strategy. Look at top level Quake play and you'll see the best players usually having an average of 30% accuracy. The vast majority of the game is understanding positioning and having exceptional gamesense. In a sense it's decision trees based on precisely where everybody is on a map at any given moment, and where they are likely to be. This is true of most FPS games in my experience, and is the same of any battle plan. Exact positioning and understanding positioning is the key to success, and is the essence of high-level FPS play. Just like in a MOBA.

[QUOTE=KaptonJack;51682484]The entire thread jerking themselves to Oizen having bad taste is honest to god more frustrating than Oizen jerking their D.Va fetish in public, holy Christ.[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/b0jj1Fo.png[/img] Im a living meme.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51682495][img]http://i.imgur.com/b0jj1Fo.png[/img] Im a living meme.[/QUOTE] D.va's a meme, you're riding the coat tails :v: (imsorryiloveyou)

[QUOTE=Atlascore;51682305]To be fair, TF2 has had almost an entire decade to build up its characters, in that time Valve has released tons of comics, the Meet the x videos, etc. Blizzard is trying to do the same with Overwatch, and I think they've been doing a decent job so far with the comics and videos. Problem is that they've got far more work to do than Valve because the game has nearly three times as many characters as TF2.[/QUOTE] Unreal Tournament characters had more depth, and that doesn't even have a story. [quote]10:40 PM - New Year, Old Schwamm: okay then Unreal Tournament 10:41 PM - New Year, Old Schwamm: Malcom is a man who once had a chip on his shoulder, felt like he needed to prove something 10:41 PM - New Year, Old Schwamm: After gaining his accomplishments he's something of a sellout, but triest to act like a glorious war hero veteran 10:42 PM - New Year, Old Schwamm: that Necris chick is an uber fanatic of a completely different culture, she's closed minded, controlling, and very robotic. She does not like to show emotion and emotion to her is a weakness[/quote] Don't get me wrong, I like Overwatch, and story isn't important to me in a thing like this. But the idea that these are good characters, from a narrative standpoint, is a reach. Timeframe isn't an excuse, either, as demonstrated above.

[QUOTE=SilverHammer;51682507]D.va's a meme, you're riding the coat tails :v: (imsorryiloveyou)[/QUOTE] hey as long as it works.