[QUOTE=Oizen;51684139]Reaper also sucks at fighting tanks.
D.Va's huge armor nerf doesn't change this.[/QUOTE]
I though Reaper was pretty good at fighting tanks
Reaper's teleport feels so clunky to use
[QUOTE=Fox Powers;51684203]I though Reaper was pretty good at fighting tanks[/QUOTE]
Road hog can consistently one shot him.
D.Va can shut him out with defense matrix, ultimate included, so he's just a target to whoever she's with
Zarya can just outrange him.
Even winston with smart barrier placement can make him a non issue, and if he does manage to get around the bubble you can just jump out and book it.
I guess he's kinda ok for fighting Reinhardt.
That's why I'm saying fight the [I]healers[/I] (and DPS) and not the tanks. If you go for the tanks first, all it takes is one Ana grenade or Mercy catch to stop all your damage. Once they're taken care of, then you can focus tanks. And save his ult for wiping out groups of healers and DPS.
[editline]17th January 2017[/editline]
I mean I'm at 2400 but that's what's been working for me.
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;51684285]That's why I'm saying fight the [I]healers[/I] (and DPS) and not the tanks. If you go for the tanks first, all it takes is one Ana grenade or Mercy catch to stop all your damage. Once they're taken care of, then you can focus tanks. And save his ult for wiping out groups of healers and DPS.
[editline]17th January 2017[/editline]
I mean I'm at 2400 but that's what's been working for me.[/QUOTE]
Reaper doesn't fare much better against Ana.
She's got a really tiny hitbox, capable of a good ammount of burst damage, and of course sleep dart means hog will just turn around and oneshot you.
The core of the problem, like many other things, is that most tanks have quite good DPS despite being, well, tanks.
Even if reaper does slightly more damage (and against Roadhog that's debateable, he has higher DPS but Roadhog can kill him in one hook-shot) his low hit points will make him lose the DPS race against pretty much any tank. Reinhardt being the one significant exception because he is by far the least offensively oriented of the tanks due to his melee range. To make matters worse, tank-busting would generally require getting into the middle of the enemy team, and reaper just doesn't have any survivability or the ability to kill a tank quickly enough to at least take one down before he gets ganked.
At least in my experience he's pretty good at chokepoints though, because generally both the defense and the offense get very focused around that hole if it's the only path you can go, so if he teleports behind there he can do some damage while they're still distracted.
Ana has also enabled a meta where if something isn't an instant kill, it isn't even relevant damage.
Nothing dies in the tank meta until the grape juice comes out and counters Ana's own healing.
[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;51684285]That's why I'm saying fight the [I]healers[/I] (and DPS) and not the tanks. If you go for the tanks first, all it takes is one Ana grenade or Mercy catch to stop all your damage. Once they're taken care of, then you can focus tanks. And save his ult for wiping out groups of healers and DPS.
[editline]17th January 2017[/editline]
I mean I'm at 2400 but that's what's been working for me.[/QUOTE]
This is often said as a counter to the tank meta. While it's straight forward and effective on paper, in real battle it's kind of hard to pull off if you're not a designated flanker. Generally (in my case at least, probably applies to most other people) If it's your standard "Reinhardt front line with or without the reinhardt" (Where it's not two teams intermixed and fighting, but rather two lines of players looking at each other and shooting) then you're generally gonna shoot whoever is biggest/most dangerous/getting kills.
On top of that, Ana has the self defense capability that no support should have. Her sleep dart is basically a death sentence if her team has a half competent roadhog.
Imo, the best way of going about an Ana nerf would be the following:
-Decrease Ana healing by a little
-Find a way to eliminate the amazing self defense an Ana can have (Sleep darted people also awaken by getting hit by their own team? without taking damage of course)
-Increase mercy healing (I personally think Mercy should have higher hps than Ana (not current ana HPS, just in general). Mercy has to be within a close-ish range of a heal target to heal them. Ana has infinite range healing. Mercy needs compensation for having to risk while healing.
Not to mention any good Reinhardt will not just stay stationary in one spot with he's shield up at all times. He's probably one of the most dangerous tanks in terms of defensive and offensive capabilities. He can pretty much smack anyone into the next tuesday with he's hammer and flatout kill any flanker if he aims he's charges well.
[QUOTE=ShimTaco;51684403](Sleep darted people also awaken by getting hit by their own team? without taking damage of course)[/QUOTE]
This should be a thing, at least being able to melee them to wake them up, a lot of times I've found myself wanting to help a sleeping teammate only to find out I cannot do shit
This also doesn't harm Ana players who want to run away from lone enemies that are chasing them and encourages teamwork
I sometimes wonder if maybe it would be better if you couldn't walk through Reinhardt's shield.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51684485]I sometimes wonder if maybe it would be better if you couldn't walk through Reinhardt's shield.[/QUOTE]
And then a Rein stands in a corner with his shield up for 2000 HP worth of stalling
Imagine if Rein's shield worked the same way Medic's shield work in TF2 during MvM. Man he would be even more of a threat on offense.
[QUOTE=ShimTaco;51684403]This is often said as a counter to the tank meta. While it's straight forward and effective on paper, in real battle it's kind of hard to pull off if you're not a designated flanker. Generally (in my case at least, probably applies to most other people) If it's your standard "Reinhardt front line with or without the reinhardt" (Where it's not two teams intermixed and fighting, but rather two lines of players looking at each other and shooting) then you're generally gonna shoot whoever is biggest/most dangerous/getting kills.
On top of that, Ana has the self defense capability that no support should have. Her sleep dart is basically a death sentence if her team has a half competent roadhog.
Imo, the best way of going about an Ana nerf would be the following:
-Decrease Ana healing by a little
-Find a way to eliminate the amazing self defense an Ana can have (Sleep darted people also awaken by getting hit by their own team? without taking damage of course)
-Increase mercy healing (I personally think Mercy should have higher hps than Ana (not current ana HPS, just in general). Mercy has to be within a close-ish range of a heal target to heal them. Ana has infinite range healing. Mercy needs compensation for having to risk while healing.[/QUOTE]
Mercy is also the dedicated single target healer. Continuous, concentrated healing is literally what she does, she has very little else in her repertoire.
Ana is super generalist.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;51684485]I sometimes wonder if maybe it would be better if you couldn't walk through Reinhardt's shield.[/QUOTE]
The last thing Reinhardt needs is to be buffed
[QUOTE=Jarokwa;51684613]i just dont understand why blizz is so hesitant on nerfing ana, surely they see how rediculously OP she is.[/QUOTE]
They might be trying to be careful so she doesnt become useless
the person in charge of the d.va nerfs didnt get the memo.
Summary:
-PTR is about bug fixes not about player feedback
-PTR will never be on consoles due to certification processes required by Microsoft/Sony
-Looking into creating Incentives for the PTR, but they dont want to because development time
-Sombra is a "disruptor" not an assassin
-Roadhog is unfair to everyone, even himself
-D.Va is un-counterable, and can do too much (local devs forget Zarya exists again)
[B]-Ana only needs a slight nerf and her design is perfectly fine. They dont want her to dissapear completely. [/B]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/A7qEPz9.png[/t]
-Statistic shaming for people who dont like PTR changes, people who like changes less likely to give feedback.
Ana needs a [B]buff
[/B]​im obviously joking
I can't wait to show that video to that one friend of mine who keeps breaking my [I]fucking balls[/I] about Sombra primary function being killing people a la Tracer every [B]FUCKING[/B] time I pick her
[QUOTE=Oizen;51684792]-D.Va is [b]un-counterable[/b], and can do too much (local devs forget Zarya exists again)[/QUOTE]
* Can literally just be 1-shotted by roadhog
[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;51684825]I can't wait to show that video to that one friend of mine who keeps breaking my [I]fucking balls[/I] about Sombra primary function being killing people a la Tracer every [B]FUCKING[/B] time I pick her[/QUOTE]
To be fair, the past few days blizzard has proven to me they know next to nothing about how heroes are actually being used.
D.Va and Rip Tires practically became a meme on the bnet forums.
[QUOTE=Oizen;51684792]Summary:
[B]-Ana only needs a slight nerf and her design is perfectly fine. They dont want her to dissapear completely. [/B]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/A7qEPz9.png[/t]
-[/QUOTE]
Ana is (mostly) fine, Mercy is the one who needs to be redesigned.
All she needs is more nade nerfs and less healing on her rifle.
snip wrong thread
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;51684853]Ana is (mostly) fine, Mercy is the one who needs to be redesigned.
All she needs is more nade nerfs and less healing on her rifle.[/QUOTE]
She needs to not function as a better mercy in mercy's range.
She needs to not hard counter every other healer in the game, just by throwing a really lenient AOE at them.
She needs to not be able to two shot tracer, and hit through genji's deflect. More often than not I find her to be a better fighter than any flank hero, whether that be DPS or even Tanks like Winston or D.Va
She needs to not have a get out of jail free card whenever anyone comes to kill her.
dva's pretty counterable
it's called shoot her, she's the size of a fucking blimp
[QUOTE=Oizen;51684831]
D.Va and Rip Tires practically became a meme on the bnet forums.[/QUOTE]
Bnet forums were always a disaster so.
[QUOTE=Oizen;51684792]Summary:
-PTR is about bug fixes not about player feedback
-Sombra is a "disruptor" not an assassin
-Roadhog is unfair to everyone, even himself
[B]-Ana only needs a slight nerf and her design is perfectly fine. They dont want her to dissapear completely. [/B]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/A7qEPz9.png[/t]
-Statistic shaming for people who dont like PTR changes, people who like changes less likely to give feedback.[/QUOTE]
[B]1.[/B] It should both Player feedback [U][B]AND[/B][/U] bug testing. Why can't it be both? If we had both we would have had a nerf for Ana's HPS during the d.va buffs. No wonder the numbers are so low, people are picking up on this.
[B]2.[/B] Sombra is as much a disruptor as Genji is a frontliner. She has two things that make her a pain, and only one of them is a major threat, her ult (maybe two with the 30 years it takes to take off a health kit hack).
[B]3[/B]. The fact Blizzard is so afraid to make Ana the new Genji (in terms of nerfs/usability) is kind of worrying. They blame the tools (Hog, D.va), but don't blame the user (Ana)
[B]4[/B]. Roadhog is bae
[QUOTE=Nightfury;51684897]Bnet forums were always a disaster so.[/QUOTE]
[url=https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752559736?page=27#post-536]Having a Dev say D.Va's primary function was[/url]
-protecting Pharah while she ults
-protecting Genji while he ults
-Protecting Junkrat's rip tire
didn't help.
Its also lead me to believe that the devs have completely forgotten a certain pink haired Russian tough woman exists.
You all forget that Jeff likes memeing like always
[QUOTE=Oizen;51684917][url=https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20752559736?page=27#post-536]Having a Dev say D.Va's primary function was[/url]
-protecting Pharah while she ults
-protecting Genji while he ults
-Protecting Junkrat's rip tire
didn't help.
Its also lead me to believe that the devs have completely forgotten a certain pink haired Russian tough woman exists.[/QUOTE]
They know she exists. The problem is her usage didn't jump up like 30 percent during the holiday event, and didn't make Tri-Tank a absolute PitA to play with/against
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