Overwatch - It's Actually a Trick To Make Everyone Play HotS, also BUY - Games

[QUOTE=Antimuffin;52274205]Why is every player I encounter in 1vs1 a "gg ez" retard.[/QUOTE] all i got was gr literally every round

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275061]Come on now, are we seriously arguing that free updates were advertised before the game came out, ergo it was covered by the 40$ fee and they don't [I]really[/I] count as free updates? By that logic you don't even know half of what you're purchasing. That's like saying TF2's free updates don't count as free updates. They're doing free updates, most other developers aren't. Try to twist it any way you like. I don't think those in charge would accept developing free updates as the game fails to bring in additional revenue for the next several years of the game's lifespan because "eh we're good for it"[/QUOTE] Tell me this, would you pay $40 for Overwatch if you knew it was never going to get gameplay content updates? I sure as fuck wouldn't. It's not worth $40 without that content, it was advertised as including that content, and if you never got that content you would have legitimate grounds for a lawsuit.

Well great. I'm getting a black screen on launch and can't do anything. Was working fine when I played last on Tuesday, and i changed literally nothing since then...

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52275124]Tell me this, would you pay $40 for Overwatch if you knew it was never going to get gameplay content updates? I sure as fuck wouldn't. It's not worth $40 without that content, it was advertised as including that content, and if you never got that content you would have legitimate grounds for a lawsuit.[/QUOTE] Now you're acting like Overwatch was some kind of early access title and the content updates are merely 'finishing' it, and I think that's just BS, honestly. Overwatch was a super solid game on release, I had enough fun with it in the opening weeks to [I]absolutely[/I] justify 40$. I would probably still recommend it if all you ever got out of it was balancing patches. Even if I agreed with your assertion that the free content is a law-bound obligation (and I'm not sure it is, the most I could find through a search was Kaplan saying they'd 'like' to keep heroes free, though I'd happily accept a source saying otherwise) I don't think that would do anything to change the fact that they're releasing content most other developers in the modern age would have charged extra for as part of the game's price.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275169]Now you're acting like Overwatch was some kind of early access title and the content updates are merely 'finishing' it, and I think that's just BS, honestly. Overwatch was a super solid game on release, I had enough fun with it in the opening weeks to [I]absolutely[/I] justify 40$. I would probably still recommend it if all you ever got out of it was balancing patches. Even if I agreed with your assertion that the free content is a law-bound obligation (and I'm not sure it is, the most I could find through a search was Kaplan saying they'd 'like' to keep heroes free, though I'd happily accept a source saying otherwise) I don't think that would do anything to change the fact that they're releasing content most other developers in the modern age would have charged extra for as part of the game's price.[/QUOTE] Regular content updates are absolutely necessary for maintaining a playerbase in a competitive multiplayer game, if OW never got any updates the community would die and I wouldn't pay $4 for it much less $40. Updates to a multiplayer game are necessary for sustaining it to make it a worthwhile value beyond the first month or two. And I don't care how much other developers are scamming their playerbases as well, that's not relevant at all.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52275179]Regular content updates are absolutely necessary for maintaining a playerbase in a competitive multiplayer game, if OW never got any updates the community would die and I wouldn't pay $4 for it much less $40. And I don't care how much other developers are scamming their playerbases as well, that's not relevant at all.[/QUOTE] So you're not willing to pay over 10 bucks for a super high quality multiplayer game with over 20 characters and 12 maps to start with if you aren't getting constant content updates, even if you got balance patches? That's utterly absurd. I think it kind of is relevant. Microtransactions, expansion packs, and any other kind of paywall are just what [I]everyone[/I] in the industry does now. If you're this upset at cosmetics that don't affect the game whatsoever, you should be utterly fuming at just about [I]every other multiplayer game in the entire industry.[/I]

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275197]So you're not willing to pay over 10 bucks for a really solid multiplayer game with over 20 characters and 12 maps to start with if you aren't getting constant content updates, even if you got balance patches? That's absurd. I think it kind of is relevant. This is what [I]everyone[/I] in the industry does now. If you're this upset at pointless cosmetics, you should be utterly fuming at just about [I]every other multiplayer game in the entire industry.[/I][/QUOTE] No, I wouldn't play $10 for a multiplayer game with over 20 characters and 12 maps [b]if the community is dead[/b], because a multiplayer competitive game without players is a waste of any amount of money. And don't pretend like OW would have any appreciable playerbase by now if it never got updated. And believe me I AM mad at every game that tries to charge me a triple A price and then has the gall to expect microtransactions to actually access all the content for it. That double-dipping bullshit can go fuck itself. In general I just don't buy games that do it even worse than OW, because I don't appreciate being taken advantage of by greedy corporations.

The game was sold on the promise that they would [b]not[/b] charge for heroes or maps and that there would be free post-launch support and content. I wasn't even considering buying the game until those aspects were finally confirmed by the developers. Holding those things over our heads now as if they've done us a favor is ridiculous. It also doesn't justify a blatantly predatory and manipulative lootbox system that gives players very little control over what they can acquire, even when you blow real currency. The fact that Heroes of the Storm, a free to play game, has a significantly better system is just flat out insulting. They have the knowledge and resources to implement a more user-friendly system, they simply refuse to.

[QUOTE=Kiamberm;52275215]The game was sold on the promise that they would [b]not[/b] charge for heroes or maps and that there would be free post-launch support and content. I wasn't even considering buying the game until those aspects were finally confirmed by the developers. Holding those things over our heads now as if they've done us a favor is ridiculous. It also doesn't justify a blatantly predatory and manipulative lootbox system that gives players very little control over what they can acquire, even when you blow real currency. The fact that Heroes of the Storm, a free to play game, has a significantly better system is just flat out insulting. They have the knowledge and resources to implement a more user-friendly system, they simply refuse to.[/QUOTE] If you buy the game during a non-event, you get almost the same amount of cosmetic content as someone did who bought the game during day 1.

[QUOTE=Kiamberm;52275215]The game was sold on the promise that they would [b]not[/b] charge for heroes or maps and that there would be free post-launch support and content. I wasn't even considering buying the game until those aspects were finally confirmed by the developers. Holding those things over our heads now as if they've done us a favor is ridiculous. It also doesn't justify a blatantly predatory and manipulative lootbox system that gives players very little control over what they can acquire, even when you blow real currency. The fact that Heroes of the Storm, a free to play game, has a significantly better system is just flat out insulting. They have the knowledge and resources to implement a more user-friendly system, they simply refuse to.[/QUOTE] This seems to me to be a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. They're doing good by releasing lots of free content, but that was 'promised' and was 'part of the package' or whatever, even though the vast majority of the overwatch playerbase would have still bought the game even without that all-encompassing promise, so now everyone feels it absolutely necessary to cry and complain about something as incredibly useless and inconsequential as skins. You paid 40$, once, for a game you're likely still getting many hours from if you're still here, and you're angry about... skins? Cosmetics that don't do anything? I think the general point mac is trying to convey is that if you take a step back and really look at it, its incredibly pointless. Crying about it wont stop blizzard from trying to sell more skins (oh shit a company is trying to make money stop the presses) and them selling those skins doesn't negatively impact you in any way, its the literal definition of a first world problem. The loot box system is only 'predatory' and 'manipulative' if you actually decide to play that gambling game, you're actively getting manipulated by a system, are fully aware of it, and yet you still complain about being manipulated instead of simply disconnecting yourself from the system you hate so much and playing the bloody game you bought in the first place. The fact that you're getting so up in arms about the system 'scumming' you out of your precious hanzo skins just tells me (and blizzard) that their system is working fine, they generated demand and you walked straight into it.

I had a person in 1v1 let me kill them 4 times. Then they kicked my ass 4 times. And on the final round they killed himself and said hope you get something good in your lootbox. T-thanks.

[QUOTE=ntzu;52275247]This seems to me to be a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. They're doing good by releasing lots of free content, but that was 'promised' and was 'part of the package' or whatever, even though the vast majority of the overwatch playerbase would have still bought the game even without that all-encompassing promise, so now everyone feels it absolutely necessary to cry and complain about something as incredibly useless and inconsequential as skins. You paid 40$, once, for a game you're likely still getting many hours from if you're still here, and you're angry about... skins? Cosmetics that don't do anything? I think the general point mac is trying to convey is that if you take a step back and really look at it, its incredibly pointless. Crying about it wont stop blizzard from trying to sell more skins (oh shit a company is trying to make money stop the presses) and them selling those skins doesn't negatively impact you in any way, its the literal definition of a first world problem. The loot box system is only 'predatory' and 'manipulative' if you actually decide to play that gambling game, you're actively getting manipulated by a system, are fully aware of it, and yet you still complain about being manipulated instead of simply disconnecting yourself from the system you hate so much and playing the bloody game you bought in the first place. The fact that you're getting so up in arms about the system 'scumming' you out of your precious hanzo skins just tells me (and blizzard) that their system is working fine, they generated demand and you walked straight into it.[/QUOTE] So your point is that we aren't allowed to criticize a bad system, because we have the option to not engage with it? I don't even know why you or Mac are bothering to reply in the first place then, if that's your stance. Just to be clear, I haven't spent a penny on lootboxes myself. I refuse to contribute to such a disgustingly broken system.

[QUOTE=Kiamberm;52275256]So your point is that we aren't allowed to criticize a bad system, because we have the option to not engage with it? I don't even know why you or Mac are bothering to reply in the first place then, if that's your stance.[/QUOTE] At least concede to the point that this isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people in this thread seem to be making it out to be, we aren't in the middle of a CS:GO scandal its literally just low drop rates on some cosemetics in an otherwise incredibly solid game with lots of free content updates. Go ahead and criticize it, by all rights you very well should, but blizzard isn't hitler for lowering the drop rates on some skins that have absolutely no objective or gameplay value what-so-ever. Just for clarity, im not really speaking directly to you with a lot of this, its just venting on a lot of the hilarious over reactions ive seen come out of this mega-thread time and time again when these events come to pass. Also, good on you for not contributing to the system, now if only everyone who was against this system actually followed your example, it may actually change; but we all know that'll never happen.

[QUOTE=Annoyed Grunt;52273443]You know there is a reason Zenyatta was invented, and it was [I]exactly this[/I].[/QUOTE] Wouldn't have worked either, Zen + Lucio just isn't enough healing. Maybe after the Lucio buffs, but in that game we had a fucking speedmode Lucio anyways (which also made me have to waste a lot of nades).

[QUOTE=Kiamberm;52275256]So your point is that we aren't allowed to criticize a bad system, because we have the option to not engage with it? I don't even know why you or Mac are bothering to reply in the first place then, if that's your stance.[/QUOTE] The point is that you have a good game that serves as a success story saying "hey you don't have to hold half of your multiplayer game's content and longevity hostage to make a decent profit" with free content updates and genuinely good gameplay (which you somehow think wouldn't survive a single year because people are supposedly that entitled) while claiming that said free content doesn't count because they promised it and are legally obligated to provide it (which you have yet to prove) but you're throwing a massive fit about this and shitting on the developer because... skins. Cosmetics that have no impact on the game whatsoever. Dress-up that accomplishes absolutely nothing but makes you feel good on the shallow basis of owning something 'rare' that looks neat.

There really needs to be a counter for ana nades. Shit is getting ridiculous.

[QUOTE=redBadger;52275291]There really needs to be a counter for ana nades. Shit is getting ridiculous.[/QUOTE] D.Va can use defense matrix, Genji can reflect them, Sombra can disable it, any of the barrier tanks can block it, or you can just pick her before she uses it.

Feels like there is no other healers now but Mercy. Feels awful.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275289]The point is that you have a good game that serves as a success story saying "hey you don't have to hold half of your multiplayer game's content and longevity hostage to make a decent profit" with free content updates and genuinely good gameplay (which you somehow think wouldn't survive a single year because people are supposedly that entitled) while claiming that said free content doesn't count because they promised it and are legally obligated to provide it(which you have yet to prove) but you're throwing a massive fit about this and shitting on the developer because... skins. Cosmetics that have no impact on the game whatsoever. Dress-up that accomplishes absolutely nothing but makes you feel good on the shallow basis of owning something 'rare' that looks neat.[/QUOTE] I never said the game wouldn't survive without the free content, you're attributing points Mort made to me. Calm down. 2nd, it takes 2 seconds to google "Overwatch confirms free heroes, maps, post-launch content" and see exactly what the developers were saying back in 2015 before the game launched. I'm not "throwing a massive fit", I'm justifiably criticizing a bad loot system in a game I payed for and play frequently. A system that is supposed to reward you for playing the game. Tell me, when is the last time you felt rewarded when you opened a lootbox? How often do you feel let down instead of rewarded? [QUOTE=ntzu;52275265]At least concede to the point that this isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people in this thread seem to be making it out to be, we aren't in the middle of a CS:GO scandal its literally just low drop rates on some cosemetics in an otherwise incredibly solid game with lots of free content updates. Go ahead and criticize it, by all rights you very well should, but blizzard isn't hitler for lowering the drop rates on some skins that have absolutely no objective or gameplay value what-so-ever. Just for clarity, im not really speaking directly to you with a lot of this, its just venting on a lot of the hilarious over reactions ive seen come out of this mega-thread time and time again when these events come to pass. Also, good on you for not contributing to the system, now if only everyone who was against this system actually followed your example, it may actually change; but we all know that'll never happen.[/QUOTE] I agree, it's not the end of the world and it's not going to stop me from enjoying the game. They're not Hitler. That said, I think it's fair to be critical of a system in a game I payed for.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275302]D.Va can use defense matrix, Genji can reflect them, Sombra can disable it, any of the barrier tanks can block it, or you can just pick her before she uses it.[/QUOTE] zarya bubble also cleanses the effect away

Had a thought as to why Blizzard is focusing so hard on lootboxes, etc. It's Project Titan. They spent years on it and probably invested a shit ton of money into its development, which ended up all falling apart and later being recycled into Overwatch. The heavy focus on microtransactions may be Blizzard's way of trying to recover financially from Titan.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52274601]Most people don't associate all the value in the game to character skins, they associate it with maps and gamemodes (i.e. the actual game) which are free and available to everyone. Yes, it is a tragedy that you can't get every skin in the game but that applies to just about every game with a cosmetics system. F2P or otherwise. Once Blizzard start locking actual gameplay behind paywalls you'll have a valid argument. I paid £30 for Overwatch a year ago and have probably over 100 hours of gameplay out of it, at this point buying a lootbox or two is fine because I'm happy to support a game that I'm probably going to continue to play for hundred more hours. Saying that Blizzard aren't showing you "the bare minimum respect" because you might not get a genji skin is absurd and entitled.[/QUOTE] I feel like I should clarify; I'm not upset that they don't outright give me the skins that I want, so much as I am upset that they're operating on such a blatantly freemium business platform. You look at what Valve did with TF2, for example; the game is now Free to Play, with a mere $10 paywall if you want to access in-game trading. If you want a hat (a cosmetic item that doesn't affect gameplay, much like skins), you can buy a key for a shot at getting it in a cosmetic crate. At the same time, you can also just trade for it without giving Valve a dime. My beef isn't so much that Overwatch's loot system is difficult to farm, so much as it is that shit like all-dupe crates (which I've gotten multiple times, even from crates I've spent [i]actual money[/i] on) is transparently in favor of milking as much lootbox money from the playerbase (who already bought the game itself). They presented an aspect of their game that is intentionally poorly-optimized, all in the name of motivating players to dump money on yet more random lootboxes that can't even be re-rolled. I know the primary goal of any business is to make money, but this kind of attitude of "yeah we know people don't like it, but we'd make less money if our players were TOTALLY happy" kind of undermines all the "WE HAVE THE BEST FANS EVER, SUCH LOVE, THANKS FOR AN AMAZING YEAR!!!" they've been pushing with this anniversary event.

[QUOTE=KnightLight;52275420]Had a thought as to why Blizzard is focusing so hard on lootboxes, etc. It's Project Titan. They spent years on it and probably invested a shit ton of money into its development, which ended up all falling apart and later being recycled into Overwatch. The heavy focus on microtransactions may be Blizzard's way of trying to recover financially from Titan.[/QUOTE] Don't you think at this point they made back their money and then some?

[QUOTE=Kiamberm;52275355]I never said the game wouldn't survive without the free content, you're attributing points Mort made to me. Calm down. 2nd, it takes 2 seconds to google "Overwatch confirms free heroes, maps, post-launch content" and see exactly what the developers were saying back in 2015 before the game launched. I'm not "throwing a massive fit", I'm justifiably criticizing a bad loot system in a game I payed for and play frequently. A system that is supposed to reward you for playing the game. Tell me, when is the last time you felt rewarded when you opened a lootbox? How often do you feel let down instead of rewarded?[/QUOTE] Okay, actual source. There you go, thanks. I'm kind of responding to both of you at the same time, and I guess that's awkward. Sorry. All the same, though? I don't think the free updates are nullified by them mentioning them before release. Overwatch's system of making money through cosmetics and continuing to support the game after release for free is a better system than most today, and I strongly believe that it [I]does[/I] matter. I like to think of the bigger picture, and the idea that one of 2017's best selling games and winner of a ridiculous number of GOTY awards was a game that didn't buy into paywall garbage was kind of a big deal to me. As for lootboxes looping back to what Ntzu said - I don't really think it matters. They're cosmetics. It's a fleeting, two second feeling of "aw" whenever I get three whites and a blue and a longer lasting feeling of fortune or reward when I happen to get a Legendary I actually like or a nice emote/highlight intro after a good game. I've never spent a single cent on a crate, I have a general policy of not spending money on micro-transactions because they have a nasty habit of killing otherwise good games. Blizzard is a company. No for-profit corporation is going to say "Hey, we already have loads of money, why don't we just develop this game for free for awhile?" They have to bring in continued profit to justify continued development otherwise they would move on to something else. For Overwatch, they have cosmetics with a hint of gambling in the loot crate system - and look, I understand what you might find distasteful in having limited edition cosmetics and a system of random chance in the same place. I don't love the idea of gambling with real money in a videogame, but I vastly prefer this shit off to the side solely surrounding cosmetics than having to pay for additional real content after paying full price like every other game on the planet. Don't think it's realistic for them to not have any micro-transactions whatsoever at this point either, its been thoroughly proven to be an effective strategy in the industry. I don't think those in charge of financing would [I]allow[/I] a lack of micro-transactions. Basically, it's not a perfect, squeaky clean system but I both don't know exactly why they chose that precise system and strongly believe that cosmetics don't matter in the face of free content and fun gameplay, which they've delivered.

overwatch easily has the worst cosmetic-only-lootbox system out of any game that functions the same. even hots has a better system.

[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;52275487]overwatch easily has the worst cosmetic-only-lootbox system out of any game that functions the same. even hots has a better system.[/QUOTE] And that is free to play.

[QUOTE=Geos88;52275500]And that is free to play.[/QUOTE] You also have to pay for heroes or grind for them, though.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52275503]You also have to pay for heroes or grind for them, though.[/QUOTE] Well it's not as bad as it used to be. You can get them in crates now as well.

[QUOTE=yellowoboe;52275512]Well it's not as bad as it used to be. You can get them in crates now as well.[/QUOTE] They are considered epic as well. So you have a better chance of getting them then a legendary skin.

lemme try some mccree before i go to bed [video=youtube_share;1h5mPDcwTFM]http://youtu.be/1h5mPDcwTFM[/video] neat [img]http://i.imgur.com/6HE23RJ.png[/img] (post-game screen) the mercy got mad at me