So it looks like Facepunch's next sandbox game (potentially Garrysmod 2) is gonna be in UE4 - Games

Despite of the live or death of the gmod and new sandbox, I really want to get the hell out of blocky-looking maps of source engine :(

[QUOTE=sannys;52791599]People invest hundreds/thousands of dollars into their servers for content and labor. It's baffling how many people in this thread could be so naive to think server owners will just drop their servers instantly and move over to sandbox. This isn't even taking into consideration casual players who play around with their their five nights at freddy workshop shit in singleplayer. They don't care about a new engine. They don't care about a new API. They want their spiderman, sonic, and undertale addons. If gmod ever dies, it will be after a long time when the content on sandbox is comparable to the content on the current workshop.[/QUOTE] This thread is full of people who have either given up on gmod or are content creators (maps, addons, models, etc.)

[QUOTE=rebel1324;52792383]Despite of the live or death of the gmod and new sandbox, I really want to get the hell out of blocky-looking maps of source engine :([/QUOTE] It would be very strange to play something similar to GMod without any half life assets in there by default

[QUOTE=rebel1324;52792383]Despite of the live or death of the gmod and new sandbox, I really want to get the hell out of blocky-looking maps of source engine :([/QUOTE] play pragma by silverlan then, he's working on improved mapping tools iirc

[QUOTE=sannys;52791599]People invest hundreds/thousands of dollars into their servers for content and labor. It's baffling how many people in this thread could be so naive to think server owners will just drop their servers instantly and move over to sandbox. This isn't even taking into consideration casual players who play around with their their five nights at freddy workshop shit in singleplayer. They don't care about a new engine. They don't care about a new API. They want their spiderman, sonic, and undertale addons. If gmod ever dies, it will be after a long time when the content on sandbox is comparable to the content on the current workshop.[/QUOTE] The great thing about your first bit there, is that if it holds true should sandbox be released eventually that for at least a few months (potentially upwards of a year depending on the speed of content creation) we won't have to deal with shitbox rp servers and rp renames eating up the playerbase.

To be honest all we'd have to do is port rp_downtown_v42069 or whatever and a shitty basic darkrp and people would flock.

[QUOTE=iamgoofball;52792831]To be honest all we'd have to do is port rp_downtown_v42069 or whatever and a shitty basic darkrp and people would flock.[/QUOTE] Lets not, here's hoping for someone would pull a Tower Unite with DarkRP.

[QUOTE=sannys;52791599]People invest hundreds/thousands of dollars into their servers for content and labor. It's baffling how many people in this thread could be so naive to think server owners will just drop their servers instantly and move over to sandbox. This isn't even taking into consideration casual players who play around with their their five nights at freddy workshop shit in singleplayer. They don't care about a new engine. They don't care about a new API. They want their spiderman, sonic, and undertale addons. If gmod ever dies, it will be after a long time when the content on sandbox is comparable to the content on the current workshop.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone here is implying Gmod is just going to drop off the face of the Earth the moment S&xbox releases. What we are implying, however, is that they won't coexist for [I]very long[/I] - S&dbox looks like it's going to eclipse Gmod in just about every way. On the topic of add-ons, since S&dbox can import Source content and content from just about anything, and since creating new content will be much easier, I don't think that'll be a problem for long.

[QUOTE=rebel1324;52792383]Despite of the live or death of the gmod and new sandbox, I really want to get the hell out of blocky-looking maps of source engine :([/QUOTE] To be fair, the reason why Source engine maps tend to be blocky isn't really the fault of the engine, for the most part. Source is an old engine and has a lot of limitations, but relatively few maps actually push those limitations. Hammer makes map-making very accessible, since you can build most maps directly in the level editor without having to make custom models. With almost every other game engine you have to be competent modeller (or have a 10-person asset team) to make anything remotely original. Most people who make levels don't know or can't be bothered to make custom models or textures, which limits how detailed levels can be. Now, obviously talented individuals and larger teams will be benefit greatly from a new engine. But I don't think the graphical fidelity or "quality" of the average level will improve significantly in a UE4-based sandbox game.

The issue, I think, would be how long it would take for content creators to do the importing/porting after it comes out. Especially for things like custom gamemodes, where just throwing a Lua interpreter into C# may not be practical as a means of moving the code over, it might take a good long while for the content to actually get there. Then again, maybe it won't be an issue if it is indeed made available to content creators sometime before it is to the public.

It's all nice and sunshine, but there's one question: Will it be memory eating beast? Unreal Engine 4 Editor with an empty project and empty level editor already uses 40k objects and ~1 GB ram. I know the editor isn't much representative of the engine, but the editor pretty much never GCs away shit it doesn't need and the OS starts to swap hard once you have a decent sized project. With a sandbox game that supports modding, it's a concern. Yeah, hurr durr buy more ram, but I think this is a reasonable question, especially that prices aren't going down any time and not many people can afford $400 32 GB DDR4 sticks right now.

[QUOTE=ichiman94;52793338]It's all nice and sunshine, but there's one question: Will it be memory eating beast? Unreal Engine 4 Editor with an empty project and empty level editor already uses 40k objects and ~1 GB ram. I know the editor isn't much representative of the engine, but the editor pretty much never GCs away shit it doesn't need and the OS starts to swap hard once you have a decent sized project. With a sandbox game that supports modding, it's a concern. Yeah, hurr durr buy more ram, but I think this is a reasonable question, especially that prices aren't going down any time and not many people can afford $400 32 GB DDR4 sticks right now.[/QUOTE] Considering UE4 runs on X1 and PS4 (with 8GB of combined RAM and VRAM), Switch (with 4GB of RAM), Android and iOS, the engine should be able to scale reasonably well. It will be interesting to see what the overhead of custom assets is though.

I am hoping they'll be able to optimize it a lot more than Tower Unite has. Toasters make up quite a bit of the GMod playerbase.

[QUOTE=WinterPhoenix;52792996] Then again, maybe it won't be an issue if it is indeed made available to content creators sometime before it is to the public.[/QUOTE] garry said he might let good content creators access early version of the new sandbox.

Because not everyone here is following both Discords [vid]https://files.facepunch.com/Layla/2017/October/21/2017-10-21_14-46-44.mp4[/vid]

This looks like a better indoor mapping tool than anything Unity or Unreal currently has to offer tbh I'd buy S&box just for that alone since we can export the maps for our own games and/or rapidly prototype with it. Good shit 👌

[QUOTE=Moat;52806170]A lot of people just close hammer when they see the 4 windows and have no idea what to do. It's really nice to see a more simple take on map editors; could lead a large increase in map makers.[/QUOTE] Hammer doesn't really require a lot of knowledge to make a shitty blocky map, watching a 30 minute tutorial will get you started. The only thing S&B will change is that people will be able to make really shitty blocky maps without any prior knowledge because it's more intuitive. Good maps only come from skilled people and thus the amount of actual good maps won't increase. On the other hand you could argue that making it easier to get started, more people will pick it up hence more people will acquire mapping skills, and as a result more good maps will be made.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;52806131]This looks like a better indoor mapping tool than anything Unity or Unreal currently has to offer tbh I'd buy S&box just for that alone since we can export the maps for our own games and/or rapidly prototype with it. Good shit 👌[/QUOTE] Well Unity doesn't even come with any mapping tools so yeah

[QUOTE=GalaxyBeatzz;52806178]Hammer doesn't really require a lot of knowledge to make a shitty blocky map, watching a 30 minute tutorial will get you started. The only thing S&B will change is that people will be able to make really shitty blocky maps without any prior knowledge because it's more intuitive. Good maps only comes from skilled people and thus the amount of actual good maps won't increase. On the other hand you could argue that making it easier more people will pick it up hence more people will acquire mapping skills.[/QUOTE] I would definitely argue that other hand, yes. You can't get skilled at something if you never start in the first place. [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=war_man333;52806201]Well Unity doesn't even come with any mapping tools so yeah[/QUOTE] Unity's editor is essentially just a level editor + package manager with the ability to open external tools for scripting and whatnot though :v: ? [video=youtube;tlix0Sb7LLQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlix0Sb7LLQ&feature=youtu.be[/video] The problem is that if you want indoor levels your best option is to make all the brushes in Blender then import them; there's no real built in tool that does indoor levels well, and Blender itself isn't great for indoor map making.

[QUOTE=GalaxyBeatzz;52806077]Because not everyone here is following both Discords [vid]https://files.facepunch.com/Layla/2017/October/21/2017-10-21_14-46-44.mp4[/vid][/QUOTE] Considering that no modern engine has worthwhile blocking tools, this is fucking incredible to me. I don't understand why basic level prototyping has only gotten worse since the 90s. Obviously you shouldn't still be detailing everything with brushes, but for deciding how you want your map to flow and feel, even shit like the original UnrealEd from Unreal Engine 1 is easier to use.

[QUOTE=gk99;52806313]Considering that no modern engine has worthwhile blocking tools, this is fucking incredible to me. I don't understand why basic level prototyping has only gotten worse since the 90s. Obviously you shouldn't still be detailing everything with brushes, but for deciding how you want your map to flow and feel, even shit like the original UnrealEd from Unreal Engine 1 is easier to use.[/QUOTE] Have you played Cube 2: Sauerbraten? I must have spent a couple hundred weekends as a kid playing online and making maps with other people in that game.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;52806203]Unity's editor is essentially just a level editor + package manager with the ability to open external tools for scripting and whatnot though :v: ?[/QUOTE] well yeah it's a scene editor but it doesn't have any brush at all so it's kind of apples and pears to me.

please garry/FP if you're not going to turn it into "gmod 2" please let others use it just as a creation tool like you lot probably will cos this is honestly amazing

Is the map tool csg or bsp? BSP would cause a lot of issues with lighting and unless there's inside face culling, would be a lot more to render too.

This discussion got me curious to look and see if there was an existing solution for decent brush editing in Unity, and lo and behold there actually is [video=youtube;Kjqx6cKUepc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Kjqx6cKUepc[/video] Definitely gonna try this out. [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] Basic version is free, sweet [url]https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/11919[/url] Layla if you're reading this, might be a good thing to pick up some good ideas from.

[img_thumb]https://files.facepunch.com/Layla/2017/October/22/test3.png[/img_thumb]

Unreal also has Geo tools 2.0 in one of the engine branches, and then there is Mesh Tool by Nate which is pretty great in itself. What Layla has seems more akin to Source 2 brush based building, rather than a planar based building that Mesh tool and Geo Tools has. [editline]22nd October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Stiffy360;52806731]Is the map tool csg or bsp? BSP would cause a lot of issues with lighting and unless there's inside face culling, would be a lot more to render too.[/QUOTE] Its most likely neither, and just either a derivative of procedural mesh, or its own thing, but most likely just a static mesh.

[QUOTE=Shirky;52806823]Unreal also has Geo tools 2.0 in one of the engine branches, and then there is Mesh Tool by Nate which is pretty great in itself. What Layla has seems more akin to Source 2 brush based building, rather than a planar based building that Mesh tool and Geo Tools has. [editline]22nd October 2017[/editline] Its most likely neither, and just either a derivative of procedural mesh, or its own thing, but most likely just a static mesh.[/QUOTE] I meant in terms of creation, bsp being creating stuff out of blocks and being completely additive while CSG uses both additive and subtractive shapes and uses boolean operations. Though from the picture layla posted it looks like it's more akin to csg with both additive and subtractive operations. Are inside faces culled?

[QUOTE=gk99;52806313]Considering that no modern engine has worthwhile blocking tools, this is fucking incredible to me. I don't understand why basic level prototyping has only gotten worse since the 90s. Obviously you shouldn't still be detailing everything with brushes, but for deciding how you want your map to flow and feel, even shit like the original UnrealEd from Unreal Engine 1 is easier to use.[/QUOTE] That looks like it works almost exactly like SketchUp does, which is great because it's really fucking easy.

Looking very good.