[QUOTE=Bread_Baron;52830605]Guards carry security cameras on their backs.[/QUOTE]
They kinda already do. Last I recall, guards can detect you from behind. I remember it being said that they have some sort of vision cone, but they can still detect things from behind to some level.
It's kinda of annoying coming from other stealth games going to Payday 2 where certain tactics, like tailing somebody, or hiding beside a doorway corner as an NPC passes aren't as viable.
It's funny how stealthing diamond heist in payday 1 is 10x less frustrating and actually works compared to this iteration.
Haven't gotten a chance to play the new Diamond Heist. Do the player names reappear in the form of name plates on desks, and shoutouts from the DJ?
[QUOTE=Notanything;52830697]They kinda already do. Last I recall, guards can detect you from behind. I remember it being said that they have some sort of vision cone, but they can still detect things from behind to some level.
It's kinda of annoying coming from other stealth games going to Payday 2 where certain tactics, like tailing somebody, or hiding beside a doorway corner as an NPC passes aren't as viable.[/QUOTE]
I fucking hate that, that they can spot you from behind.
Idk what you guys are talking about stealthing this new diamond heist is easy as hell
First thing I did launching the update was try OD stealth and got through first attempt only killing cams and the keycard boy
Then when I went loud kit overkill I accidentally stealthed it again
I had to fuck up intentionally just to try loud
Just tried it and I would say it's got its ups and downs. Guards are more densely oriented, and the fact that cameras can detect you now makes it considerably more difficult working around but there are a few new hiding places.
I was doing solo stealth on Overkill and I was actually enjoying myself, managed to open the vault with the right code after collecting all the sapphires. Got all the secondary loot first then went for the primary diamonds, and the securing objective basically ruined it for me.
I'm very disappointed to see that the Payday 2 iteration of Diamond Heist is not solo stealth friendly.
Yes, you can get all the alarm boxes and codes alone, but the fact that they went for a mandatory 8 light bag loot that has be secured across what I assume are completely random locations, it meant the rest of the heist would be a drag. And as I'm sure a lot of people know, close-quarters stealth in Payday 2 can be really dreadful.
I was having so much fun up until I saw that I had to secure all 8 bags alone without any sort of shortcuts, then it reminded me of that similar awful objective in Framing Frame having to bring 8 bags of cocaine in the pre-vault room. Unfortunately I messed up in stealth daring to go by the party too quickly with a bag, and it went loud. Amusingly enough, securing the bags became a lot easier in loud when I saw the zipline objective in the courtyard. But unfortunately, I didn't get to complete the heist because my game crashed as I was going to send another bag over the zipline.
Shame. Still a pretty good revision of a classic, but not perfect.
[QUOTE=DeadMansChest;52830291]Pornday 2
Actually let's not.[/QUOTE]
Houston: Oh Chaiiiiins. On me.
The only issue I had with Diamond Heist stealth was that Bain doesn't read you the code in stealth like in GGC, so I had to spend several minutes running around trying to refind the laptops because I forgot where they all were, and didn't bother memorising or writing down the code.
Aside from that, I got detected and had to restart once, but then completed it without any issues (even snagging the sapphires and blood diamond on the way)
It's annoying because so many other games have done stealth so, so much better in the past. Even multiplayer ones! And then Payday comes along and tried to reinvent the wheel, failing to realise that some things just don't need innovating...
I think ol' Yahtzee said it best, when it comes to stealth. There's a few basic checkpoints for a decent stealth system:
- Clear indication of when you're visible vs when you're not.
- Environments that offer multiple methods of transversal, giving the player multiple entry and escape points.
- The ability to return to a "stealth" state if you successfully deal with or evade being detected.
- A decent ability to fend off or escape from enemies when detected, making detection a challenge, but not a game-over.
In Payday, though, they seemed to take all those points and toss them out the window. Guard detections are super hard to gauge, as is visibility/suspicion. Your options of approaching a stealth situation are often limited to only a few, uncreative possibilities. You're stuck with senseless limitations, like only being able to answer a certain number of pagers at a time, being unable to move bodies without body bags, and having to constantly babysit civilians that can't be tied down.
And even then, you can do everything perfectly and have an entire run spoiled by garbage rng that serves zero purpose other than to make things frustrating. The GO Bank heist in particular comes to mind, a giant, window-covered box with randomly spawning cops and civilian NPCs that just pop into existence outside at random intervals and wander straight past the already frustrating bank area, which has so many civilians in it that it is (or at least was, when I played last) literally impossible to zip-tie them all down, so you had to have somebody on constant babysitting duty. And then the actual heist itself is another boring ass drill section followed by either an RNG waiting game or a fucking maze run. Never been able to stealth that damn mission a single time.
I loved playing Payday 2 a while back, but good god they need to do something about stealth.
Many of the things you're asking for [I]are already in the game.[/I] In particular, environments have been built around multiple path structures since Election Day. GO Bank, admittedly one of the weaker designs due to the fact that the map was made by Valve for a different game, has rules for how and when civilians and guards spawn. You can't tie everyone down in solo, but it's fairly easy to do with a group. Stealth detection desync, along with desync generally, was massively improved by a patch that's got to be almost a year old now. Guard detection (and thus visibility) follows rules and is based entirely on distance and a viewcone corresponding to the direction of the guard's head.
The other stealth design elements you're asking for would require a completely different game, from top to bottom, start to finish, using entirely different gameplay dynamics and reworking the entire structure of every level.
You gotta admit them detecting you from the back when you're semi-close is bullshit, and "otherwise it would be too easy" is not an appropriate excuse for that. I would find it excusable if there was a clear sign of you making sound when walking, but there isn't, same as how suppressed weapons dont alert guards when you shoot near them unless it's real close. The way stealth was designed in payday is abysmal. I hope if they are remaking stealth in PD3 they at least decide to copy FC3/4, it aint perfect at all, but it's still less frustrating than what you have now. One thing I enjoyed in the RAID beta was how guards didn't have pagers and you didn't require bodybags to move them, I'm not sure if that's changed since then. I'm not asking for a Thief/Chaos Theory stealth system (as amazing as that would be) but something that's passable and less frustrating majority time.
[QUOTE=Square_Rabbit;52830992]The only issue I had with Diamond Heist stealth was that Bain doesn't read you the code in stealth like in GGC, so I had to spend several minutes running around trying to refind the laptops because I forgot where they all were, and didn't bother memorising or writing down the code.
Aside from that, I got detected and had to restart once, but then completed it without any issues (even snagging the sapphires and blood diamond on the way)[/QUOTE]
Chill friend, not everyone remembers to find specifically the correct employee even in Car Shop, some impatient barbarians just want to be done with the heist... And then karma kicks them in the groin (or head, what do I care) for their impulsive nature.
Here's a tip; the code is like RGB. Start by having the code as "000", fill in the empty slots with the numbers in order!
I can't get behind a stealth game in which the characters refuse to put their guns away once they start lockpickint
Its like they fucking want to be caught
their guns do get put down though
[t]https://i.imgur.com/KlYeVro.jpg[/t]
I got to meet Pete Gold at MCM.
[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;52831158]
Here's a tip; the code is like RGB. Start by having the code as "000", fill in the empty slots with the numbers in order![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm aware, but thank you. The reason I forgot the code was because it took so long for me to find the laptops. After I found them all the second time I opened google in the steam overlay and plonked the numbers in order in the search bar just to be certain I wouldn't somehow forget them again.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52831222]their guns do get put down though[/QUOTE]
No I meant that once you mask up they refuse to mask down
[QUOTE=Dick Slamfist;52831453]No I meant that once you mask up they refuse to mask down[/QUOTE]
From a gameplay standpoint it makes sense really
If you could mask and unmask at will, a lot of tasks would just be way to easy
You're mostly being forced to plan ahead from the moment you choose to mask up
Wow the AMA was pretty pathetic
The only interesting thing is that they said theyd maybe think about adding unique outfits to Countefeit and Slaughterhouse
I honestly have no idea why anyone plays the frustrating, buggy mess which is payday 2 stealth. if I wanted to play a stealth game I'd start up any of the dozens of games which do it better and spare myself the conniptions
It's full of lots of annoying hoops and other bullshit that you have to jump through and endure to get through it. But something about it is [I]damn satisfying[/I] for completing the job silently when you actually get it to work long enough. There might not be aiming skills involved in stealth, but you do get a chance to show off quick reactions to tough situations, so it's really fun testing yourself on certain stealth heists you've mastered in stealth. It's really the only time I've done something similar to speedrunning, where I try to beat, or match my records for completing the heist with all the loot.
I guess it's similar to people who play the highest difficulty settings even though they're total bullshit at times because of how the game tries to make things challenging.
Payday 3 stealth better be a damn masterpiece with all the feedback on how it works in Payday 2. There should be so much negative feedback that Overkill could probably find a good direction simply by knowing what NOT to do.
I hope they have like a completely dedicated team of developers who exclusively work on the stealth aspect of every heist and mechanics, that way it can feel like it's a complete feature and not something that there just because it has to be. And if it's like that already, well, I hope they learned a lot from Payday 2, and that a new engine for the next game will make the job a lot easier.
I got Shadow Raid down so well I sometimes hop in to unwind a bit. Stealth isn't perfect but some heists I find to be enjoyable in stealth.
[editline]29th October 2017[/editline]
Also, I know what was said about having a way to return to a stealth state after alarm before, but something that makes Payday stealth good sometimes is the tension. In most other games if you get caught it's not a game over, you can escape or reload a save. In Payday 2, when you're 40 minutes into Big Bank and you're out of pagers and a guard almost sees you, you definitely feel it. I kinda appreciate that, shit mechanics aside.
[video=youtube;uS3BVuBG6_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS3BVuBG6_k[/video]
In regards to Freddy in DbD, seems like it might be a little broken right now.
do the riddles stay or disappear after the event ends?
[QUOTE=E.C.S;52829650]Maybe we will get it in Payday 3 when Overkill starts porting each one of all heists. All of them.[/QUOTE]
Hot Pursuit 2024 hype
designing a good stealth system is pretty simple.
Step 1: Identify what Metal Gear Solid 3 did
Step 2: Copy all of that
The concept of Payday seems more fitting to Hitman-style social stealth than MGS3-style action-stealth IMO.
[QUOTE=Spectre1406;52832682]do the riddles stay or disappear after the event ends?[/QUOTE]
I'm not at home, so… you check it. Why would Aldstone's Side Jobs go away? Overkill knows they cannot limit players from obtaining promotonal RAID World War II material (sans golden M1 Garand rifle).
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;52832883]The concept of Payday seems more fitting to Hitman-style social stealth than MGS3-style action-stealth IMO.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I think I'd much prefer Hitman stealth gameplay to that of something like MGS or Splinter Cell. I mean I love the gameplay for both of those series, and if they went with either of those for their style I'd 100% love it, but the Hitman style feels more correct. I mean honestly it'd be cool to have heists in banks or office buildings or such where you go in with fake IDs and shit and try to blend in and avoid drawing attention as you hack stuff or crack a vault.
[QUOTE=TWKUK;52832879]designing a good stealth system is pretty simple.
Step 1: Identify what Metal Gear Solid 3 did
Step 2: Copy all of that[/QUOTE]
what
they're already penalizing you for killing, letting you hold up guards, and giving you RNG detection from what you're wearing, but besides that there's nothing really of value from the MGS3 stealth.
Only thing that comes to mind is carrying bodies, but that's a staple of like every stealth game
I can only hope you don't mean having Dallas steal a donut so he can aim better
[editline]29th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;52832883]The concept of Payday seems more fitting to Hitman-style social stealth than MGS3-style action-stealth IMO.[/QUOTE]
Social stealth?
[editline]29th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52832901]Yeah, I think I'd much prefer Hitman stealth gameplay to that of something like MGS or Splinter Cell. I mean I love the gameplay for both of those series, and if they went with either of those for their style I'd 100% love it, but the Hitman style feels more correct. I mean honestly it'd be cool to have heists in banks or office buildings or such where you go in with fake IDs and shit and try to blend in and avoid drawing attention as you hack stuff or crack a vault.[/QUOTE]
I'd say some blood money or absolution suit only (no disguises) system would work.
Really the big thing that's wrong with Payday's stealth really is the way moving bodies is, and the pagers.
Just look at RAID, it's stealth is pretty good even though it has no silencers
[editline]29th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;52832884]I'm not at home, so… you check it. Why would Aldstone's Side Jobs go away? Overkill knows they cannot limit players from obtaining promotonal RAID World War II material (sans golden M1 Garand rifle).[/QUOTE]
He's talking about Locke and Load riddles
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PAYDAY 2/RAID v12: Locke Your Doors
