PAYDAY 2/RAID v12: Locke Your Doors - Games

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52836911]so going loud is both a [I]lot[/I] less desirable[/QUOTE] No, no, no! This is what Goldfarb was going for, and we ended up with a lot of terrible decisions (release state Death Wish). Both stealth and loud should be completely viable and equally satisfying approaches.

[QUOTE=Nickolas;52834313][media]https://twitter.com/SimonViklund/status/924725278680772608[/media][/QUOTE] Huh, 2017? If No Mercy somehow gets released in the next week or two as a surprise Halloween heist, I'm gonna get full erect real fast.

[QUOTE=VintageCat;52836933]No, no, no! This is what Goldfarb was going for, and we ended up with a lot of terrible decisions (release state Death Wish). Both stealth and loud should be completely viable and equally satisfying approaches.[/QUOTE] I mean I think part of that is that Payday's stealth is utterly terrible and buggy as hell (at least it was when I actively played) I'm basically imagining en entirely different game at this point, frankly. In-depth Stealth and preparation as the default with loud gameplay being tense and lethal with the player wanting to ideally avoid frontal police confrontation if possible. I guess I just feel like something like Heat Street should be a climax, not just-another-heist.

So, can we expect [del]no mercy[/del] the new Halloween heist this evening/tomorrow, or is Halloween coming late this year?...again?

my brain keeps reading OD as overdose

That's why I call it 1D

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52837191]I mean I think part of that is that Payday's stealth is utterly terrible and buggy as hell (at least it was when I actively played) I'm basically imagining en entirely different game at this point, frankly. In-depth Stealth and preparation as the default with loud gameplay being tense and lethal with the player wanting to ideally avoid frontal police confrontation if possible. I guess I just feel like something like Heat Street should be a climax, not just-another-heist.[/QUOTE] Payday is intended to be a play as you wish deal though, besides the forced loud and force stealth heists Making one or the other worse just stops it from being like that

Personally, I renamed the difficulty (with the Custom Strings mod) to Beyond Reason, to keep in the theme of ascending difficulty names, since "One Down" oversimplifies the level to just a single trait. I kind of like it and I think it fits, since the law enforcement's response to a single gang of four on 1D is completely unreasonable, even considering who they are. Doesn't really solve PaperMartin's issue with abbreviations, since if you can interpret OD as Overdose, associating BR with Battle Royale sounds plausible. No offence intended :v:

Shifting the current topic just a bit: Anyone is gonna dress as Payday characters for Halloween? I bought a somewhat decent Houston mask for ~3 bucks (yeah, those Paycheck mask going around)

[QUOTE=Exploders;52837417]That's why I call it 1D[/QUOTE] my brain keeps reading 1D as One Direction.

something I like about payday threads is how quickly the title of the thread is irrelevant come next week when we've already forgotten about Locke sure was cool how in this crimefest not only did we stop Locke but we also rescued Kento, solved the secret and beat commissioner garret

[QUOTE=PaperMartin;52837321]my brain keeps reading OD as overdose[/QUOTE] Olive Drab.

[QUOTE=FalconHBFS;52837786]Shifting the current topic just a bit: Anyone is gonna dress as Payday characters for Halloween? I bought a somewhat decent Houston mask for ~3 bucks (yeah, those Paycheck mask going around)[/QUOTE] had wanted to be Dallas, but the official vinyl masks never restocked.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;52832933]what they're already penalizing you for killing, letting you hold up guards, and giving you RNG detection from what you're wearing, but besides that there's nothing really of value from the MGS3 stealth.[/QUOTE] Ability to distract enemies. Enemies in Payday either don't see anything, or are alerted and call the police. They don't move towards bags for a closer look, you can't throw rocks or something to make a guard deviate from their patrol route aside from the hair dryers in framing frame, even then it's inconsistent. We can't drag dominated guards to move them. Stealth in Payday is about moving as fast as possible because there's no bonus for remaining still, meaning sprinting is somehow more sneaky. I don't think there's even a bonus [might be according to the long guide, don't remember.] for crouching! Guards don't make footstep sounds and patrol randomly. They're very unpredictable. In certain heists like car shop, they psychically go to the computer mid-hack. A camera going off magically alerts the police even if you murder the camera guy before the alarm activates. ALL guards pagers go off upon dying. If a guard is killed mid-call, it's not seen as suspicious. Either have them periodically report in, and if killed, when a check-in is supposed to happen, have a player answer the pager, or only have pagers activate if killed mid-call. As a MGS player all the stealth aspects [learn patrol routes, distract enemies via sound or visual stimuli like tapping on a wall or throwing something, move slowly and silently] just don't seem to apply to Payday 2, where stealth just involves moving from cover to cover from binary guards who don't react to the world around them outside of being fully alerted if they look at something for long enough. It's frustrating, goes against everything I've learned from Thief, Metal Gear, Hitman, and Splinter Cell. Have stealth be intuitive. Guards barely feel like human beings. When I'm discovered in any of the earlier mentioned games, it feels like it's my fault as there's plenty of ways to try and predict where they are, or deal with them, while in Payday you can walk through a door and have absolutely no idea a guard was there because he randomly decided to stare at a doorway for no reason and get stuck, and once detected shooting a guard often results in his gun discharging and alerting the entire map. And don't get me started on client vs host detection. Did they ever fix the clients detection being his head on his model while for the host it's his camera? It's absolutely infuriating to take cover behind what I thought was acceptable cover but only be discovered because the top of my head was peeking out, or rock the mouse up and down to find the "sweet spot" where my head isn't visible. Even worse as previously mentioned it's only an issue for the client! Host doesn't have this problem! Have stuff like broken cameras cause stuff like extra guards sent in, etc. I agree loud AI needs an improvement. The Cloaker was right: Work Smarter, not Harder! Harder difficulties should have the cops acting MUCH more intelligent in tactics instead of just making there be more of them, turning them into bullet sponges, and making them kill you in less hits.

[QUOTE=FalconHBFS;52837786]Shifting the current topic just a bit: Anyone is gonna dress as Payday characters for Halloween? I bought a somewhat decent Houston mask for ~3 bucks (yeah, those Paycheck mask going around)[/QUOTE]I'll be going as Sokol, got a sweet mask [URL="https://www.etsy.com/se-en/transaction/1163262118?show_panel=true"]here[/URL]

Dunno if anyone else noticed, but the FBI files were somewhat updated. Garret's got some new emails regarding Duke and Locke, but bizarrely there's no case files on either Duke (in the summary pages or player stats) or the new heists yet. A bit halfway there with additions. At least they're remembering it. Speaking of remembering, you think we can expect a Halloween update by tomorrow, if not later today?

meanwhile[URL="https://i.imgur.com/39mOPPW.png"],[/URL] in an alternate universe [t]https://i.imgur.com/MxP6Bzj.jpg[/t] [sp]it started with me saying my characters kinda looked like a boy band together and it just kinda spiraled out of control from there[/sp]

I like that Raid is already half off in the alternate universe too

Raid is an excellent example of a pretty good idea executed pretty badly A shame really It's just really held back by the fact that this is their first own effort i am pretty sure I mean the new animations since base look like amateur work compared to what Payday 2 has ended up like It looks worse than PD:TH's base game weapon animations and that's saying a lot

[QUOTE=Nickolas;52837428]Payday is intended to be a play as you wish deal though, besides the forced loud and force stealth heists Making one or the other worse just stops it from being like that[/QUOTE] As I said, I'm basically talking about a hypothetical separate game at this point. I like Payday for what it is, but it sort of lacks what's compelling about heists in movies and stuff to me in the first place- the feeling of insurmountable odds, mostly. The stealth in Payday 2 has always felt like a bit of an afterthought to me (though it's better than the original, for certain) and the police are mostly only threatening in absurd numbers. A co-op heist stealth/shooter game with proper in-depth stealth mechanics and shooting that's fun and satisfying but lethal enough that the first responders with glocks are actually menacing and SWAT are cause for panic instead of literally basic mooks would be pretty neat.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52839116]As I said, I'm basically talking about a hypothetical separate game at this point. I like Payday for what it is, but it sort of lacks what's compelling about heists in movies and stuff to me in the first place- the feeling of insurmountable odds, mostly. The stealth in Payday 2 has always felt like a bit of an afterthought to me (though it's better than the original, for certain) and the police are mostly only threatening in absurd numbers. A co-op heist stealth/shooter game with proper in-depth stealth mechanics and shooting that's fun and satisfying but lethal enough that the first responders with glocks are actually menacing and SWAT are cause for panic instead of literally basic mooks would be pretty neat.[/QUOTE] For as long as I've played PD2, I've always loved the moments right after things go loud, it's when the heist flavour of the game is really at it's strongest. You can be acting all cool up to that point, relaying information about guard positions and equipment statuses as your team gets in place, but as soon as someone makes that un-salvageable slip-up, everything changes. An alarm sounds, Bain's on the horn telling you how long you have until swat teams arrive, and everyone has to move quickly to prepare for the change of plans. You get the drill guys on the vault, hostages are tied down, defensible positions are fortified with sentries and bolstered with supplies. Maybe you have people in loud gear waiting in the wings to bust in. This is the bit that I have [B]always[/B] thought should have been more developed. It never made sense to me that the swat teams would engage you while you had hostages secured, and the gaps between assault waves feel just way too short in PD2. I think it would be good if in PD3 they brought back the need to destroy cameras when things go loud. I'm pretty sure that restricting police access to information was just an excuse for a side-objective hunt in PD1, but it makes sense. How cool would it be if you could make a safe room for hostages, where you draw the blinds and destroy cameras to eliminate the police's visual? Do it carefully enough and you'd buy yourself more time before the swat team inevitably breached. It would be skill-based, where the most experienced and thorough players could progress through stages (such as cloakers infiltrating to save the hostages or McClane style rogue hostages) without tipping off the negotiator, postponing the assault stage maybe even to the point of being able to break into the vault and acquire the loot, only having to deal with the exit stage. It would be a bit like what I think the Go Bank phone was meant to be, only without it being solely dependent on RNG. It wouldn't just be dealing with a negotiator and a bank vault either, any heist could have different features you could make use of to slow the police advance, and PD2 already does this to an extent. Just not enough IMO. I don't think you'd need to sacrifice the 'horse shooter' mechanics either, this would just be expanding the 'stealth' approach but in a more heist-specific way.

is it alright to download payday 2 now? i heard the galant is a good gun

I dunno how you dudes can enjoy the stealth with the netcode and the current mechanics. Everytime ovk says "stealth only heist" I want to die. I'm sure a potential Payday 3 could feature good stealth but if anything it should be a prelude to the horse shooting and not a do or die thing like it is now. People either play loud, or stealth, and there's very little benefit to switching from stealth to loud in the middle of gameplay, despite it being an actual mechanic the game wants you to play into.

hey, hardcore raid players (if you exist), have you had any issues getting all the halloween cosmetics? that is, 8 drops -- a top and bottom for each character? the first 7 dropped fairly quickly for me, and the 8th has yet to drop for me and apparently some others after considerable playtime. some people are saying they have them all but i'm doubting the legitimacy

[QUOTE=fendermcbender;52839837]hey, hardcore raid players (if you exist), have you had any issues getting all the halloween cosmetics? that is, 8 drops -- a top and bottom for each character? the first 7 dropped fairly quickly for me, and the 8th has yet to drop for me and apparently some others after considerable playtime. some people are saying they have them all but i'm doubting the legitimacy[/QUOTE] I was farming Last Orders and could never get the last jacket I needed, but I then jumped into a random Normal Rhinegold 4/4 lobby and got it right away with 1 tag. So if you've been farming the same raid over and over, maybe try switching? In terms of the cards, I got one Halloween card pack from my, like, first box. Since then I've had one other card drop, which was just regular cards.

[QUOTE=fendermcbender;52839837]hey, hardcore raid players (if you exist), have you had any issues getting all the halloween cosmetics? that is, 8 drops -- a top and bottom for each character? the first 7 dropped fairly quickly for me, and the 8th has yet to drop for me and apparently some others after considerable playtime. some people are saying they have them all but i'm doubting the legitimacy[/QUOTE] I got them all. The details of the loot system are a black box, but there are definitely diminishing odds, and it appears lower clothes are rarer than uppers.

announcment is out, limited time heist, classically safehouse 2.0 [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/games/218620/announcements/detail/1453961083959105742"]SAFEHOUSE NIGHTMARE 2: THE REVENGENING[/URL] [sp]happy halloween[/sp] [t]http://www.overkillsoftware.com/ovk-media/2017/10/pd2-cursedkillroom-1.jpg[/t] [t]http://www.overkillsoftware.com/ovk-media/2017/10/pd2-cursedkillroom-2.jpg[/t] more masks ill never use [t]http://www.overkillsoftware.com/ovk-media/2017/10/pd2-cursedkillroom-ss.jpg[/t] wick is gonna be pissed we burned down his doll house Edit: [t]https://i.imgur.com/peQZnRc.jpg[/t] ez

rest in pieces no mercy

[QUOTE=VietRooster2;52841275]rest in pieces no mercy[/QUOTE] Why were people thinking No Mercy would come this Halloween, anyway? I'd say it's coming next Spring Break.

The new track is fucking amazing.