[QUOTE=iamgoofball;53199003]Have you considered not being an awful human being? I understand it's what you're used to having happen to you, but that doesn't mean it's okay to do that to others.[/QUOTE]
I have actually ended up telling them they should stop before rushing into GO Bank's vault, just before the timelock finishes. I even hoard the keycard when I can so as to find boards and boarding up the windows since the noobs wouldn't expect pedestrians to spawn during the timer counting down.
…What else is there I tell them? Yes, in Murky Station they can distinguish by the sound of equipment based on what it is. Buzzing meaning blowtorch, radio w/ music being keycards, electronic sounds for hard drive, and so on.
At other times, I just tell them to go ahead (on Normal or Hard at least) and that I'll back 'em up if it goes loud.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;53199205]Framing Frame really isn't an issue like it used to be, especially with all the new features they added. Preplanning lets you put spy cams in large areas. Jack of all Trades lets you put motion detectors on all of the stairs and track movement between floors. Between those two, it's pretty difficult to not know where everyone is at a given moment, and it's honestly kinda easy these days.[/QUOTE]
It's super tedious. That's my main problem with it.
The big issue I always with Elephant heists is that they have a habit of just being hell for a solo-heister, besides some stuff just being ridiculously dependent on luck. Group stealth has always been a hassle for as far back as I can remember, so solo-stealth will always be the ideal option.
Even with motion sensor and cameras, day 3 is still awful because the lack of hiding spaces, and tight corners for guards to come around makes it a constant hazard. I haven't played in a while, so I'm going to assume on Death Wish and above, the guards still lack flashlights to allow you to see their position ahead of time, another annoying aspect.
Even if you do find the guards to be a non-issue, you still have to meticulously ferry 8 bags down the pre-vault room, often without any sort of shortcut, because the bag 'shortcut' asset does fuck all to actually cut your travel time. Not only does it fail to dispense the bags in a safe location away from guard eyes, it's not even guaranteed to be on the same floor as the vault. Don't forget having to close the bookcase each time, because if a guard spots the room open, it sets off an alert.
I don't know why they chose 8 as a number, they could easily halve it, or more to make it significantly more bearable. I imagine the Payday gang forfeiting more value in cocaine for framing than there actually is gold in the vault, you don't need that many bags of the stuff for a framing job. I probably shouldn't dwell on the actual logic too much, but the point is that nothing sucks more than mandatory hauling across tight spaces with no shortcuts. It's a severely outdated heist that just feels like a relic of some of the darkest days of Payday.
The ironclad strategy for FF3 requires a lot of patience, but drastically simplifies the heist.
1. Steal as many paintings as possible day 1.
2. Place a bunch of spycams in different areas.
3. Kill four guards when they're on the roof.
4. Wait for the check-in guard to arrive and, eventually, leave. This takes a highly variable amount of time, but the guy gives off radio chatter at each position he checks- and gives an especially long call when he's about to leave. These calls are all audible from the roof.
5. Have one or two people monitoring the cameras and roof, while the other 1-2 complete objectives.
Framing Frame was designed before overkill's mappers really finished digesting the map design ramifications of the stealth system, so it's got some attempts at handling system rules (e.g. give players advance notice on guard positions) that don't quite work out (guards have flashlights, but the flashlights don't help with blind corners. There are a lot of transparent surfaces, but players can be detected through them, and they don't help the corner situation). Election Day was probably the first heist that showed anything like a mature understanding of stealth map design.
And the DW change on Framing Frame was, ofc, total bullshit.
Now, on the other hand, many more recent heists, especially stealth-only ones, have bent the curve way too far in the other direction. Cognitive load has been reduced to nil because every location has a safe spot and every corner has advance notice built in. Players can do pretty aggressive blind runs and get no kills on new heists built to these standards.
There is a petition for overkill to add the Vyse masks in Payday 2.
[QUOTE=Chuggoth;53200597]FF took me 40 minutes to finish on OD. Get the mines and spycams, don't kill anybody unless they spot the vault and you're safe.
There's a lot of hiding spaces(sofas, shelves etc.), and windows of opportunity when guards leave the room completely empty.
It was quite a breeze when I was doing it yesterday tbh, the hardest part being day 1 and the escape afterwards.[/QUOTE]
The case of wine is probably just as tedious, if you ask me. Framing Frame day 3 is scary.
[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;53200741]The case of wine is probably just as tedious, if you ask me. Framing Frame day 3 is scary.[/QUOTE]
I dont know if they fixed the issue where the case of wine would spawn in the same area as where the safe would be, making it impossible to progress without restarting.
FF is a breeze now compared to release, it's honestly really easy if you keep restarting day 3 'til you get a bedroom vault. Spam sensor mines in good locations and knowing all the guard spots/paths and you're good.
I like how in the original version a camera would be able to see the bookshelf at the top of the stairs opening, really shows the care that goes into this sort of stuff :v:
[QUOTE=RedDagger;53200793]FF is a breeze now compared to release, it's honestly really easy if you keep restarting day 3 'til you get a bedroom vault. Spam sensor mines in good locations and knowing all the guard spots/paths and you're good.
I like how in the original version a camera would be able to see the bookshelf at the top of the stairs opening, really shows the care that goes into this sort of stuff :v:[/QUOTE]
Well you could control the map on release, so it was much easier. No respawning guards, and you could have jokers on stealth
Oh damn I forgot about jokers, I never used them myself so I guess I was more of a masochist.
[QUOTE=Master-Indigo;53200821]Well you could control the map on release, so it was much easier. No respawning guards, and you could have jokers on stealth[/QUOTE]
Jokers until the domination still required answering pagers.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/83t9hb/secret_masks/"]This[/URL] made me think, what if the new achievements are for the PD2 secret and unlock the secret masks?
[QUOTE=BenjaminTennison;53200881]Jokers until the domination still required answering pagers.[/QUOTE]
Dominating nowadays requires you to answer a pager, but this wasn't the case before. That way you would kill 4 guards, answer their pagers, dominate one -> joker him and you would have one last guard dominated. Bringing the total to 6 guards dealt with.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53201070][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/83t9hb/secret_masks/"]This[/URL] made me think, what if the new achievements are for the PD2 secret and unlock the secret masks?[/QUOTE]
the new achievements aren’t for anything special. there’s a pinned post on the steam forum about them with a dev saying they’re mostly a formality, so don’t get your hopes up. something like that, too lazy and not at home to find it atm
[media]https://twitter.com/PAYDAYGame/status/973907517150498816[/media]
garret hasn't aged well it seems
[QUOTE=fendermcbender;53201504]the new achievements aren’t for anything special. there’s a pinned post on the steam forum about them with a dev saying they’re mostly a formality, so don’t get your hopes up. something like that, too lazy and not at home to find it atm[/QUOTE]
From Overkill_Sebastian
[QUOTE]Hey! Just so we don't disappoint everyone when the patch goes out, these achievements are nothing too exciting, we're just fixing a gap in the current achievement progression.[/QUOTE]
edit: [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/8/1698293068432597496/?ctp=7#c1698293255132830367"]source[/URL]
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53201532]From Overkill_Sebastian
edit: [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/app/218620/discussions/8/1698293068432597496/?ctp=7#c1698293255132830367"]source[/URL][/QUOTE]
"Alright guys remember, Sebastian is a smelly fish." All jokes aside this feels like he might be up to something, but I have no idea to be sure.
Just so people don't try to follow the other thread that was made while the slow migration took its sweet time doing its job.
Have you guys tried the No Visual kick mod? For me it makes automatic weapons and especially pistols much more comfortable to use.
Is that the one that removes all the recoil animations?
I've tried it, but it looks too awkward for me to get used to
Welp, finally GMD suffered the same fate as the Gmod and Mapping sections.
Yeah that one. Shooting is awkward for me without it, like your gun just bounces around. Why do guns need visual kick when they already have view kick as well? Seems unnecessary.
Probably because having the gun be pretty much stationary while firing just looks extremely silly
Spooky old thread in spookier new forum. Weird.
VR is live
Steam Community
You have a point there, but if you have ADS mechanics in a shooter game, at least lessen the visual kick when in ADS so the gun doesn't block your view or disrupt it so much when firing.
I wasn't expecting much anyway.
About FF stealth, I think the ability for a camera to spot the bookshelf opening was pretty lame. It basically meant you had to destroy the camera or kill the security room guard if that was the case.
I think they still spot bookshelves according to the wiki.
I remember if a guard enters the vault because you left the shelf open, the alarm just instantly sounds or something.
Payday 2's stealth is very counter-intuitive. You have to rush around like a ninja because moving slowly or crouching does not actually reduce visibility if I remember correctly. You CANNOT interact with the guards in any way other than luring with drills and certain map related stuff like the dryer in Framing Frame day 1.
Guards do not react until fully alerted to suspicious stuff, their patrols are completely random and hard to predict, sometimes getting stuck. Guards react inconsistently. No fucks given about Big Bank or normal bank vault opening, but alarm is triggered over the vault in Shadow Raid being open. On certain heists guards will be called to check broken cams but not others.
The pager system feels artificial and gets too much in the way. Once a guard is alerted there is next to no way to deal with him if you're out of pagers.
If guards did not have binary level of alert it'd be more forgivable because if a guard spotted you or became suspicious, you could "Back off" and he could return to normal without triggering the alarm or you having to kill him. I.E. for broken glass, he'd search around the area and if he couldn't find the player, return to patrol.
It's made more frustrating on heists with security rooms or guards with cards as that effectively means your pager limit is much lower than other heists. Car Shop is my favorite example as on harder difficulties (I think) two guards are physically linked to the computer you have to hack and will automatically path to the room, effectively forcing you to kill them and lose half your pagers.
Guards have no footsteps. You have to have someone keep marking them to really keep track of them, and what about stuff like guards around a corner outside of camera coverage or something?
I'm hoping for Payday 3 stealth is vastly improved. Payday 2 has some of the worst stealth mechanics I've seen. I like some things like extra guards being sent in if suspicious activity occurs (I.e. guards die on certain heists) but the lack of any way to really deal with them just makes it not fun.
One way to improve it aside from better, more "reactive" AI, is maybe having pagers only be on certain, "elite" guards like the guard in the camera room, a few on the map, etc. with the rest not having pagers like in the Scarface heist.
Can't say I'm a fan of them piling all of these new VR additions and just dumping them in the main branch. There was a beta branch for a reason.
The VR specific skills look questionable; I fear that you can abuse armor gating hard with them.
http://www.overkillsoftware.com/ovk-media/2018/03/pd2-scope-canted1.gif
The PIP scopes look awesome though.
Gonna be interesting to see if I can actually notice any VR players while playing. Certainly hope they're enjoying themselves, VR looks fun.
Though I dunno how well VR driving will work out, huh...
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PAYDAY 2/RAID v12: Locke Your Doors
