• Crossdressing/Transgender Megathread v. There is an unicorn under my dress.
    10,001 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Riodoku;37742556]Because the word is an adjective, not a noun. It's not a definition of who someone is, it's a descriptive factor. We had a trans woman running for mayor a while back, and you could tell very easily which of our media groups were bigoted and which were non-partisan by how they described her. The ones that called her "the transgender" were filled with hateful comments while the organizations that called her "the transgender woman" or "the woman, who is transgender" just offered information. Using it as a noun takes the humanity out of the description. Regardless of how you interpret the term, it's used as a means to defame others.[/QUOTE] Really, like anything else in the English language, saying something can have multiple meanings with the exact same wordings. For instance, to quote you, "the transgender woman" could be meant to be just as harmful and slandering as "the woman, who is transgender" because they are pointing out a trait which is really not worth mentioning at any rate in media other than to belittle or point out one's stance in life. Really your points you are making are all null and void, it's not what you say most times, it's your intention behind those words that makes you incorrect/correct socially and politically.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37742598]You are arguing over someone's use of the letter "a". Someone described themselves and used the letter "a", and this is enough to evoke a response? Seriously, [I]what are you doing[/I]?[/QUOTE] Uh, I'm just talking. I have no idea why you're acting so hostile. I think this is important. [QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37742620]Really, like anything else in the English language, saying something can have multiple meanings with the exact same wordings. For instance, to quote you, "the transgender woman" could be meant to be just as harmful and slandering as "the woman, who is transgender" because they are pointing out a trait which is really not worth mentioning at any rate in media other than to belittle or point out one's stance in life. Really your points you are making are all null and void, it's not what you say most times, it's your intention behind those words that makes you incorrect/correct socially and politically.[/QUOTE] The stories were focused around her trans status because the community is emerging in the public eye as a minority group. Minorities who have previously been out of the political populace running for mayor is newsworthy. When news organizations use hate speech against these minorities, it's important to note what kind of language they use. And they tend to dehumanize and degender, which is exactly what the term "a transgender" does. If all that mattered in the English language was intention, then the words nigger, faggot, and tranny are also free to use.
Why are you two coming down on her for no reason when she's right. :| Even if she wasn't, she said it irks [I]her[/I]. It's simply [I]her opinion[/I] and you're acting like she jumped down the persons throat.
I can kind of understand where Riodoku is coming from, I feel similarly, but it's nothing something I would argue about.
oh no people are saying things that arent exactly what im saying lets start a shitstorm over it
[QUOTE=Riodoku;37742741]Uh, I'm just talking. I have no idea why you're acting so hostile. I think this is important. The stories were focused around her trans status because the community is emerging in the public eye as a minority group. Minorities who have previously been out of the political populace running for mayor is newsworthy. When news organizations use hate speech against these minorities, it's important to note what kind of language they use. And they tend to dehumanize and degender, which is exactly what the term "a transgender" does. If all that mattered in the English language was intention, then the words nigger, faggot, and tranny are also free to use.[/QUOTE] Those noted words are complete low-blows, they were intentionally made to belittle, dehumanize and otherwise insult people of the respective communities. By implying that you're implying "transsexual", the word [b]DESCRIBING YOU YOURSELF[/b], is a bigoted word used only for harming a certain populace UNLESS you take a vowel out from between a subject and an adjective. I hardly think that when referring to yourself, when you're part of the people you're speaking of, that you would ever logically think "Hey, maybe I should say 'Yes, I'm coming out to my parents as a faggot.'" unless you were joking with friends or people who would understand it as satire. And even then you would be treading on thin ice. And intention really still is a key part of language skills as I can praise you for being transgender through my introduction of you and the berate you for your actual being transgender or vice versa. The explanation behind what you say means infinitely more than what you initially start with.
[QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37742825]Those noted words are complete low-blows, they were intentionally made to belittle, dehumanize and otherwise insult people of the respective communities. By implying that you're implying "transsexual", the word [b]DESCRIBING YOU YOURSELF[/b], is a bigoted word used only for harming a certain populace UNLESS you take a vowel out from between a subject and an adjective. I hardly think that when referring to yourself, when you're part of the people you're speaking of, that you would ever logically think "Hey, maybe I should say 'Yes, I'm coming out to my parents as a faggot.'" unless you were joking with friends or people who would understand it as satire. And even then you would be treading on thin ice. And intention really still is a key part of language skills as I can praise you for being transgender through my introduction of you and the berate you for your actual being transgender or vice versa. The explanation behind what you say means infinitely more than what you initially start with.[/QUOTE] I see no point to what you're arguing. Rio said it bothers her and simply pointed it out. From a grammatical standpoint, she's also correct, as noted by her bringing up "transgender" being an adjective, not a noun. You're going on a bullshit tirade over the fact of a term being harmful or not when all Riodoku wanted to do was correct what she saw as a mistake. Cool your fuckin' jets.
[QUOTE=biodude94566;37742892]I see no point to what you're arguing. Rio said it bothers her and simply pointed it out. From a grammatical standpoint, she's also correct, as noted by her bringing up "transgender" being an adjective, not a noun. You're going on a bullshit tirade over the fact of a term being harmful or not when all Riodoku wanted to do was correct what she saw as a mistake. Cool your fuckin' jets.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing first off, I'm debating my point of view against theirs. Secondly, referring to my first point, my jets are icy cool.
[QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37742825]Those noted words are complete low-blows, they were intentionally made to belittle, dehumanize and otherwise insult people of the respective communities. By implying that you're implying "transsexual", the word [b]DESCRIBING YOU YOURSELF[/b], is a bigoted word used only for harming a certain populace UNLESS you take a vowel out from between a subject and an adjective. I hardly think that when referring to yourself, when you're part of the people you're speaking of, that you would ever logically think "Hey, maybe I should say 'Yes, I'm coming out to my parents as a faggot.'" unless you were joking with friends or people who would understand it as satire. And even then you would be treading on thin ice. And intention really still is a key part of language skills as I can praise you for being transgender through my introduction of you and the berate you for your actual being transgender or vice versa. The explanation behind what you say means infinitely more than what you initially start with.[/QUOTE] I'm not criticizing xero's description of themself (I say them as I have no idea how xero identifies), I'm criticizing the way that type of language is used by people who aren't heavily involved in these communities. When they hear the term "a transgender" they can enter the mindset that it's some kind of third gender, and the individual is neither man nor woman. That's harmful to the community as a whole.
Seems to me like you're just being extremely PC and going after discrimination that isn't really there.
[QUOTE=Riodoku;37742989]I'm not criticizing xero's description of themself (I say them as I have no idea how xero identifies), I'm criticizing the way that type of language is used by people who aren't heavily involved in these communities. When they hear the term "a transgender" they can enter the mindset that it's some kind of third gender, and the individual is neither man nor woman. That's harmful to the community as a whole.[/QUOTE] To be fair, anyone can enter any mindset outside of a community off of any buzzword, even one that is considered politically or socially correct. So really you're not helping or hindering the solution to your problems by saying things a different way. People will think of you what they want based on whatever they dislike about people in general, not how you describe yourself or others like you.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37743009]Seems to me like you're just being extremely PC and going after discrimination that isn't really there.[/QUOTE] Political Correctness is a term for people who don't want to be called out when they've done something wrong.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;37743057]Political Correctness is a term for people who don't want to be called out when they've done something wrong.[/QUOTE] Actually I'm pretty sure it's the proper term for being.. ahem, "politically correct". Correct if wrong please.
Hey guys. Group hug <3
Well unforseen circumstances have poped up, so I'll be telling them today.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37743009]Seems to me like you're just being extremely PC and going after discrimination that isn't really there.[/QUOTE] This has nothing to do with political correctness. It's an issue that is harmful to the trans community. [QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37743012]To be fair, anyone can enter any mindset outside of a community off of any buzzword, even one that is considered politically or socially correct. So really you're not helping or hindering the solution to your problems by saying things a different way. People will think of you what they want based on whatever they dislike about people in general, not how you describe yourself or others like you.[/QUOTE] When it comes to minorities, especially emerging ones, that doesn't apply. People tend to see minorities as groups, not as individuals. Those aspects of people's mindsets can be changed when they are presented with proper information. The term "transgender" does have a lot of negative connotations, yes, but that doesn't mean that we, as a community, should accept that. We should be working to change that, and that means correcting harmful language and ideas. [QUOTE=xero2751;37743109]Well unforseen circumstances have poped up, so I'll be telling them today.[/QUOTE] Good luck! I hope everything goes well for you. Telling my parents was the scariest experience of my life, but it was definitely worth it.
[QUOTE=Riodoku;37743132]This has nothing to do with political correctness. It's an issue that is harmful to the trans community.[/QUOTE] Yeah only it's not.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37743156]Yeah only it's not.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it is.
[QUOTE=Riodoku;37743132]This has nothing to do with political correctness. It's an issue that is harmful to the trans community. When it comes to minorities, especially emerging ones, that doesn't apply. People tend to see minorities as groups, not as individuals. Those aspects of people's mindsets can be changed when they are presented with proper information. The term "transgender" does have a lot of negative connotations, yes, but that doesn't mean that we, as a community, should accept that. We should be working to change that, and that means correcting harmful language and ideas.[/QUOTE] And more power to you, but why does her way of referring to herself or for that matter anyone else matter any more than if I referred to a woman as such, "a woman", or a homosexual as such as well. Noone else in any other demographic is moving to get rid of vowels in their daily lives, I just don't see why you people are. [editline]20th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jrock455;37743161]Yeah, it is.[/QUOTE] It's really not.
[QUOTE=Jrock455;37743161]Yeah, it is.[/QUOTE] Does saying "I'm a human" make me any less of a person than one who says "I'm human". It doesn't. I don't see what the problem is.
ok i read your guys thread sometimes because i find it interesting to see what you guys go through and i wanna learn and what not. im not trans or gay or any of that but this has to be the stupidest argument ive seen you guys go through it all started with a placement of an "A" jesus. transgender is quite literally the definition and i thought it was the correct thing to say, whats wrong with it?
I've thought using "a transgender" was wrong because, grammatically, I always thought it was an adjective. Like I'd never seen someone say, "I'm a gay." Sounds weird. :v:
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37743185]Does saying "I'm a human" make me any less of a person than one who says "I'm human". It doesn't. I don't see what the problem is.[/QUOTE] No because humans aren't a fucking minority. You don't go "EW LOOK, A [I]HUMAN[/I]! THATS DISGUSTING!" but you can see plenty of examples of what boils down to "EW LOOK, A [I]TRANNY[/I]! THATS DISGUSTING!" Quit trying to act like you can apply this to everything holy fucking shit. Better yet quit furthering the fucking argument.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;37743217]I've thought using "a transgender" was wrong because, grammatically, I always thought it was an adjective. Like I'd never seen someone say, "I'm a gay." Sounds weird. :v:[/QUOTE] I've heard "I'm a lesbian" as opposed to "I'm lesbian", that counts right?
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37743243]I've heard "I'm a lesbian" as opposed to "I'm lesbian", that counts right?[/QUOTE] Well I viewed lesbian as how some gay men are ok with being labeled as a faggot/queer. I view it as faggot/queer = gay guy; lesbian = gay girl. That's why I never understood the use of LGBT (or GLBT), because Lesbian and Gay are the same thing really. Just seems odd and redundant for no reason.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;37743242]No because humans aren't a fucking minority. You don't go "EW LOOK, A [I]HUMAN[/I]! THATS DISGUSTING!" but you can see plenty of examples of what boils down to "EW LOOK, A [I]TRANNY[/I]! THATS DISGUSTING!" Quit trying to act like you can apply this to everything holy fucking shit. Better yet quit furthering the fucking argument.[/QUOTE] ...you're really straw manning the fuck out of this then trying to remain the peacekeeper? I mean [i]come on[/i], saying "ew look a [b]tranny[/b]" is totally and completely biased to make you look good, however it shows the flaws in your argument as noone had brought that up previous to this.
[QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37743268]...you're really straw manning the fuck out of this then trying to remain the peacekeeper? I mean [I]come on[/I], saying "ew look a [B]tranny[/B]" is totally and completely biased to make you look good, however it shows the flaws in your argument as noone had brought that up previous to this.[/QUOTE] Again you bring up Strawmanning, How the fuck am I? Could I see an example? And i'm trying to "play peacekeepr" because regardless of who's wrong or right this is really fucking stupid.
To me, saying "a transgender" seems to be objectifying like theyre not just a woman or transgendered woman but a weird object.
[QUOTE=HHBlackhawk;37743177]And more power to you, but why does her way of referring to herself or for that matter anyone else matter any more than if I referred to a woman as such, "a woman", or a homosexual as such as well. Noone else in any other demographic is moving to get rid of vowels in their daily lives, I just don't see why you people are. [editline]20th September 2012[/editline] It's really not.[/QUOTE] Because the term dehumanizes and degenders transgender people. That is incredibly harmful to a community which faces that exact problem from almost all directions. I have already stated that I have no issue with how xero defines themself. I'm just trying to educate people on how easily it can be to do things that are harmful to your cause. [QUOTE=NuclearAnnhilation;37743196]ok i read your guys thread sometimes because i find it interesting to see what you guys go through and i wanna learn and what not. im not trans or gay or any of that but this has to be the stupidest argument ive seen you guys go through it all started with a placement of an "A" jesus. transgender is quite literally the definition and i thought it was the correct thing to say, whats wrong with it?[/QUOTE] Being transgender is not who you are, and it is not your gender. It's just a part of who you are, and a part of how you identify yourself. By calling someone "a transgender", as opposed to "a transgender woman", you are degendering them. That's the point I'm trying to convey. [QUOTE=Jrock455;37743289]To me, saying "a transgender" seems to be objectifying like theyre not just a woman or transgendered woman but a weird object.[/QUOTE] Yes, this exactly.
You guys and girls are getting so uppity about a way someone says something that you all know to mean no offense at all anyway, why is this argument even happening.
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