[QUOTE=thisispain;37709716]marx 420 everyday[/QUOTE]
blaze it proletariat
[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37760712]I think it is agreeable though that if for whatever reason, everyone stopped following religion, the earth would be a much more peaceful place and we could actually industrialize the rest of the world[/QUOTE]
That's a horrible argument; the earth would be a much more peaceful place if everyone followed Christianity, or Islam, or Buddhism, or anything!
In addition, this "Pipe dream" isn't feasible because it involves forcing your beliefs on others, and even with brute force there will always be a few groups of independent, free thinkers that will oppose this
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Fisheater;37764985]I don't see why in the world we all fight over religions that worship non-existent things.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why in the world this statement holds any weight at all in it
If you're so sure these things are non-existant than prove it.
Even under one religion, people would still fight. They do whatever they want then look for justification.
Religion [I]was[/I] a way of explaining things people didn't understand. It was also a method of building communities of allied people. (Which also tends to destroy cultures,)
Now since we have the resources for science to explain everything, religion has become something that [I]I do not enjoy.[/I] It seems that it is just a bunch of people running around, complaining that there isn't enough Jesus.
It also causes many problems. Fighting over religion, extremists, etc.
I wonder what it would take for the large cultures of 'believers' to stop believing in what they have been brainwashed to believe in mass quantities.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37779444]Even under one religion, people would still fight. They do whatever they want then look for justification.[/QUOTE]
And what's to say this won't be the same for atheism? People would still fight because it's human nature
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mike60044;37779863]It seems that it is just a bunch of people running around, complaining that there isn't enough Jesus.
[/QUOTE]
Then we have the people like you who run around bitching about there being too MUCH jesus
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mike60044;37779863]Religion [I]was[/I] a way of explaining things[/QUOTE]
Key word being "was"
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37780314]And what's to say this won't be the same for atheism? People would still fight because it's human nature[/QUOTE]
Careful with the notion of human nature, it's a very ambiguous and debatable idea.
But yeah, I get your point. As a matter of fact, many conflicts have already existed without religion involved. See racism.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37780314]And what's to say this won't be the same for atheism? People would still fight because it's human nature[/QUOTE]
Not all humans. Some countries don't have constant conflict problems.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37780506]Not all humans. Some countries don't have constant conflict problems.[/QUOTE]
Canada comes to mind
But certainly they've got their own mix of religions and associated culture don't they?
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
The thing I'm trying to say is that I'm baffled by how many people blame violence on religion when it is not religion itself but the people who exploit it to start wars that are to blame
Humans are the real problem here, don't you see?
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37780632]Canada comes to mind
But certainly they've got their own mix of religions and associated culture don't they?
[editline]23rd September 2012[/editline]
The thing I'm trying to say is that I'm baffled by how many people blame violence on religion when it is not religion itself but the people who exploit it to start wars that are to blame
Humans are the real problem here, don't you see?[/QUOTE]
Humans are the problems of all wars, social conflicts, any non-nature made conflict. This is common knowledge.
[QUOTE=brainmaster;37780909]Humans are the problems of all wars, social conflicts, any non-nature made conflict. This is common knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Even without religion, war is a basic of human nature. If we lived in a world without differing religions, or a world with one religion, there would still be war over resources, land, and people.
[QUOTE=brainmaster;37780909]Humans are the problems of all wars, social conflicts, any non-nature made conflict. This is common knowledge.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;37780993]Even without religion, war is a basic of human nature. If we lived in a world without differing religions, or a world with one religion, there would still be war over resources, land, and people.[/QUOTE]
If we lived in a world with one religion then people would still bicker about interpretations of it, like Catholics.
Even Muslims are fighting over the interpretation of their religion, while one of the big points of Islam is that it should be the same for every believer, without any sort of variation.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;37780993]Even without religion, war is a basic of human nature. If we lived in a world without differing religions, or a world with one religion, there would still be war over resources, land, and people.[/QUOTE]
That in no way excuses the atrocities religion has caused. Not to mention if someone truly believes war is divinely warranted they're probably going to be more motivated to partake.
[QUOTE=brainmaster;37780909]Humans are the problems of all wars, social conflicts[/QUOTE]
Monkeys NEVER have territorial disputes do they?
[QUOTE=brainmaster;37780909]any non-nature made conflict.[/QUOTE]
False. Humans are part of nature.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;37781917]That in no way excuses the atrocities religion has caused. Not to mention if someone truly believes war is divinely warranted they're probably going to be more motivated to partake.[/QUOTE]
I don't think he's defending religion, I think he's just explaining that it's not the main factor in human violence, which I agree with.
It is kinda childish to consider religion (or any other belief of any sort), as the main motive for violence, murder and discrimination across the world. I personally think that there is no bigger, more common motive for a people to enter a war against another or against themselves, but if I had to designate one particular reason for people to kill each other more than any others, I would say it is private property, and not religion, racism, hatred or anything of the like.
[editline]24th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jookia;37782155]Monkeys NEVER have territorial disputes do they?
[/quote]
I think he meant wars and social conflicts in human environment.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37782155]False. Humans are part of nature.[/QUOTE]
Once again I think you misunderstood his post. I am fairly certain that by nature he meant the nature itself, not living beings. I have kind of a hard time understanding his point on that one, but arguing over semantics is definitely not the solution.
It's kind of weird to write 'humans are part of all human disagreements'.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37777902]I don't see why in the world this statement holds any weight at all in it
If you're so sure these things are non-existant than prove it.[/QUOTE]
It is not the job of anyone to prove an unverifiable assertion false, rather it is the job of the one who asserted it in the first place to prove it true.
Isnt it true that if we did find life on another planet, the bible is automatically disqualified from being taken seriously even by the people who believe it because I think it says that god only created life on earth.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37785201]It is not the job of anyone to prove an unverifiable assertion false, rather it is the job of the one who asserted it in the first place to prove it true.[/QUOTE]
But why should we bother mixing religion and science?
religions are philosophical pillars that you can use to govern how you live
Science is just discovering how shit works and Technology is the application of such knowledge to practical things
So what if someone says a God exists, its not like we can apply God to technology and put Him in some weird ass machine or something. Why the fuck should we even worry about proving or disproving religions when you can just live with them and go find a cure for cancer or something
In my opinion, whether God exists or not is a trivial problem when we have plenty of other shit to be focusing our efforts on
After all we'll all find out when we die, right?
[editline]24th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37792188]Isnt it true that if we did find life on another planet, the bible is automatically disqualified from being taken seriously even by the people who believe it because I think it says that god only created life on earth.[/QUOTE]
It never explicitly states that
I don't even think people in that time even knew that there were other planets
[editline]24th September 2012[/editline]
Plus if you were to take a look at all the factors that entail carbon-based, sentient, intelligent beings our chances are already quite slim
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;37780993]Even without religion, war is a basic of human nature. If we lived in a world without differing religions, or a world with one religion, there would still be war over resources, land, and people.[/QUOTE]
It's everything but human nature. Other animals constantly struggle with nature and each other, but intelligence helps stop that.
Humans are still part stupid though. Stack bad mental health on top of that and you end up with people who've completely lost touch with reality starting shit over nothing.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37800753]It's everything but human nature. Other animals constantly struggle with nature and each other, but intelligence helps stop that.
Humans are still part stupid though. Stack bad mental health on top of that and you end up with people who've completely lost touch with reality starting shit over nothing.[/QUOTE]
Animals don't organize under one banner and engage in armed conflict between or within nations/states, they just fight for survival or their off-spring's survival.
[editline]9/25/2012[/editline]
If anything war is a sign of intelligence.
Basically the argument that religion causes wars is invalid.
I don't like you, so I want to fight you, but I'm going to look stupid without some kind of justification. Religion is one of those justifications; doesn't mean religion CAUSES war in and of itself.
Hell, South Park had an entire episode where in a future timeline, three Atheist factions were warring against each other because they wanted to all unite under one organization but could not agree on a name to call their organization. It's just a subtle hint that humans will fight over anything.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;37801106]Animals don't organize under one banner and engage in armed conflict between or within nations/states, they just fight for survival or their off-spring's survival.[/QUOTE]
An unstable person constantly feels threatened, and will fight when it is not necessary. And fight against the wrong thing at that.
Intelligence brings about unusual pressures. This is why religion was created in the first place.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37801285]An unstable person constantly feels threatened, and will fight when it is not necessary. And fight against the wrong thing at that.
Intelligence brings about unusual pressures. This is why religion was created in the first place.[/QUOTE]
One person's paranoia is not an equivalent to war, it's a heightened sense of awareness due to a chemical imbalance or some other cause. Granted paranoia isn't necessarily a disorder, but a state of mind. When one experiences paranoia constantly when there's no need for it, then it becomes a disorder.
Also what do you mean by "unusual preassures"?
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37792265]But why should we bother mixing religion and science?
religions are philosophical pillars that you can use to govern how you live
Science is just discovering how shit works and Technology is the application of such knowledge to practical things
So what if someone says a God exists, its not like we can apply God to technology and put Him in some weird ass machine or something. Why the fuck should we even worry about proving or disproving religions when you can just live with them and go find a cure for cancer or something
In my opinion, whether God exists or not is a trivial problem when we have plenty of other shit to be focusing our efforts on
After all we'll all find out when we die, right?[/QUOTE]
Uh, no I'm not ignoring it, because this it the 'debate' section, not the 'ignore assertions and do other stuff' section.
[QUOTE=Megafan;37804713]Uh, no I'm not ignoring it, because this it the 'debate' section, not the 'ignore assertions and do other stuff' section.[/QUOTE]
Har har har.
I'm just saying, people here just are misinformed about religion which is surprising considering some used to be religious themselves
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;37801412]One person's paranoia is not an equivalent to war, it's a heightened sense of awareness due to a chemical imbalance or some other cause. Granted paranoia isn't necessarily a disorder, but a state of mind. When one experiences paranoia constantly when there's no need for it, then it becomes a disorder.
Also what do you mean by "unusual preassures"?[/QUOTE]
Fear spreads very easily.
As for unusually pressures, our communication lets us know about things far outside ourselves, and our imaginations let us fill in gaps with a perfect terror of our own making.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37814331]Fear spreads very easily.
As for unusually pressures, our communication lets us know about things far outside ourselves, and our imaginations let us fill in gaps with a perfect terror of our own making.[/QUOTE]
Then you have a bunch of scared people, not one army pitted against another. Of course a group of scared people can become violent, but that still isn't war. Also there's a lot more to religion than fear.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;37814491]Then you have a bunch of scared people, not one army pitted against another. Of course a group of scared people can become violent, but that still isn't war. Also there's a lot more to religion than fear.[/QUOTE]
In addition to your last statement, I've always thought it was supposed to be a respectful relationship in religion other than a "God Fearing" one.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37792265]I don't even think people in that time even knew that there were other planets[/QUOTE]
Are you serious? Hell, the Mayans knew there were other planets, and they were around long before the Bible existed. Don't forget the ancient Romans either.
Sorry, back on topic. I'm not a fan of religion simply because most religious people are forced into the belief at a young age. They grow up believing it and some even use it to dictate their actions, be it good or bad.
However religion does have its benefits. It can turn a seriously offensive person into an angel (pun). But it could be just out of fear too.
To be honest, I respect those that have their own beliefs but don't force them on others. Those are the good people.
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