• Religion : why does it exist ?
    792 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37792188]Isnt it true that if we did find life on another planet, the bible is automatically disqualified from being taken seriously even by the people who believe it because I think it says that god only created life on earth.[/QUOTE] The old testament only states that earth was created 6000 years ago by god in about 6 days before he took a break. And a lot of christian people disregard this part (if not all of the old testament) or consider it a poetic image more than a factual description of how it apparently happened.
[QUOTE=Combat Wombat;37814559]In addition to your last statement, I've always thought it was supposed to be a respectful relationship in religion other than a "God Fearing" one.[/QUOTE] Well I can't speak for other religions, in the case of Christianity fear of God is part of it but not nearly the whole of it. Besides, if you believe in a supreme lord of the universe that observes his creation of time and space as a whole, I'd be surprised if you didn't fear him. [editline]9/26/2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;37814758]The old testament only states that earth was created 6000 years ago by god in about 6 days before he took a break. And a lot of christian people disregard this part (if not all of the old testament) or consider it a poetic image more than a factual description of how it apparently happened.[/QUOTE] That's actually not what the old testament states, at all. The creation of the earth never has a specific date put on it, the six days begin after the creation of the earth. As for the 6000 year old idea, that whole theory is based off of a sloppy interpretation of the genealogies, most specifically the first one which doesn't even state the number of generations or whether the people mentioned in it went in an orderly father and son fashion. Really the bible doesn't specify the age of the earth or the universe or pretty much anything in the earlier parts of the old testament.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37814244]Har har har. I'm just saying, people here just are misinformed about religion which is surprising considering some used to be religious themselves[/QUOTE] In fairness, you're the one asserting that science and religion don't clash, or at least don't need to, so it's quite arrogant to claim anyone contesting that view is just 'misinformed'.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37800753]It's everything but human nature. Other animals constantly struggle with nature and each other, but intelligence helps stop that. Humans are still part stupid though. Stack bad mental health on top of that and you end up with people who've completely lost touch with reality starting shit over nothing.[/QUOTE] Sorry for the late response, but, humans are very, very animalistic in our actions. We will go to war for some very very dumb reasons, sometimes without even religion or anything to motivate it, just the need for bloodshed.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37782155]Monkeys NEVER have territorial disputes do they? False. Humans are part of nature.[/QUOTE] You misunderstood, I refer you to Ganerumo for correct interpretation :smile:
I know some people that keep telling me to look up debates between scientists and religious people, just so they can show me "you have to have more faith to believe in science than religion". Well, yeah, when religion's argument is "it exists and that's it", of course it'll be easier to believe.
Religions are a really good solution to stabilize the society. For example take some simple commandments from the Bible like Not to take revenge, Judge righteously, Not to murder and Return the lost object. It doesn't matter if you are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or anything else, if you commit such rules you would be considered a "good" man by others.
The people define the culture, the culture does not define the people. Like I said before, bad people will bullshit that their faith lets them do whatever they want.
[QUOTE=Audio-Surfer;37826435]The people define the culture, the culture does not define the people. Like I said before, bad people will bullshit that their faith lets them do whatever they want.[/QUOTE] The extent in which people are determined by their culture is really much greater that the one in which they determine their culture. Only a few can free themselves from most of the prejudices of the culture they grew in, yet no one can be completely free from them. And even less have enough influence over the rest of the people to actually [I]determine[/I] their culture. [editline]27th September 2012[/editline] It should be noted, however, that this doesn't mean that people aren't responsible for the prejudices they hold.
I'm religious. Most people who know me don't think I am, but that's because I don't talk with many people about it. Being religious is something that I choose, because I feel it is right. I feel more at peace with the universe around me, my life on the whole has improved, and it is much easier to smile now. I read countless posts saying that religion gets rammed down people's throats, which sometimes it does, but it happens the other way around too. I don't talk about religion with people because every time I say I believe in something greater than me, I get told I'm not being logical and there's no point in believing. Well I'm not forcing myself on you, religion isn't forcing itself on you, people are forcing themselves on you. If a man comes at you with a gun, do you hate all guns and all people who quietly own guns for their own protection, or because they enjoy them? Maybe you don't want a gun, you find them to be a waste of time, but I like mine and I don't flash it around so don't tell me an inanimate object, be it a gun or a book, is to blame. [editline]29th September 2012[/editline] Religion also was the birthplace of science. Who do you think funded a lot of the early scientists? It was those in power who corrupted the TRUE meaning of religion to be used in a bad way, like will happen any time too much power is given to a major minority. People are easy to fool. But when science started finding things that might shake up their power, they put a stopper on it. You CAN be religious and still believe and support science 100%. It's fear and ignorance of the human heart and mind that gives religion a bad name.
[QUOTE=Meader;37841360]I'm religious. Most people who know me don't think I am, but that's because I don't talk with many people about it. Being religious is something that I choose, because I feel it is right. I feel more at peace with the universe around me, my life on the whole has improved, and it is much easier to smile now. I read countless posts saying that religion gets rammed down people's throats, which sometimes it does, but it happens the other way around too. I don't talk about religion with people because every time I say I believe in something greater than me, I get told I'm not being logical and there's no point in believing. Well I'm not forcing myself on you, religion isn't forcing itself on you, people are forcing themselves on you. If a man comes at you with a gun, do you hate all guns and all people who quietly own guns for their own protection, or because they enjoy them? Maybe you don't want a gun, you find them to be a waste of time, but I like mine and I don't flash it around so don't tell me an inanimate object, be it a gun or a book, is to blame. [editline]29th September 2012[/editline] Religion also was the birthplace of science. Who do you think funded a lot of the early scientists? It was those in power who corrupted the TRUE meaning of religion to be used in a bad way, like will happen any time too much power is given to a major minority. People are easy to fool. But when science started finding things that might shake up their power, they put a stopper on it. You CAN be religious and still believe and support science 100%. It's fear and ignorance of the human heart and mind that gives religion a bad name.[/QUOTE] Good, there is more of us.
[QUOTE=Meader;37841360]I'm religious. Most people who know me don't think I am, but that's because I don't talk with many people about it. Being religious is something that I choose, because I feel it is right. I feel more at peace with the universe around me, my life on the whole has improved, and it is much easier to smile now. I read countless posts saying that religion gets rammed down people's throats, which sometimes it does, but it happens the other way around too. I don't talk about religion with people because every time I say I believe in something greater than me, I get told I'm not being logical and there's no point in believing. Well I'm not forcing myself on you, religion isn't forcing itself on you, people are forcing themselves on you. If a man comes at you with a gun, do you hate all guns and all people who quietly own guns for their own protection, or because they enjoy them? Maybe you don't want a gun, you find them to be a waste of time, but I like mine and I don't flash it around so don't tell me an inanimate object, be it a gun or a book, is to blame. [editline]29th September 2012[/editline] Religion also was the birthplace of science. Who do you think funded a lot of the early scientists? It was those in power who corrupted the TRUE meaning of religion to be used in a bad way, like will happen any time too much power is given to a major minority. People are easy to fool. But when science started finding things that might shake up their power, they put a stopper on it. You CAN be religious and still believe and support science 100%. It's fear and ignorance of the human heart and mind that gives religion a bad name.[/QUOTE] I should fucking archive this post 10/10 would read again; Very well said
[QUOTE=Meader;37841360]You CAN be religious and still believe and support science 100%. It's fear and ignorance of the human heart and mind that gives religion a bad name.[/QUOTE] Even though the scientific method would in one way or another require you to provide evidence for an assertion, such as the assertion that God exists?
[QUOTE=Megafan;37853520]Even though the scientific method would in one way or another require you to provide evidence for an assertion, such as the assertion that God exists?[/QUOTE] So? Just because we can't prove some totally metaphysical idea doesn't mean we can't believe in it. It's something called faith. Besides, its not like belief in some higher entity interferes with your ability to apply the scientific method to other, more feasible things.
I believe religion exists as a kind of pillar of support for people to lean on in times of crisis when they don't have anything else.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37856376]So? Just because we can't prove some totally metaphysical idea doesn't mean we can't believe in it. It's something called faith. [/QUOTE] Faith is a waste of effort.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37856711]Faith is a waste of effort.[/QUOTE] Anti-Theism is a waste of effort.
Religion exists because it was a way to control primitive minds back when people lived in tribes. Now, it holds us back as a species. End of argument.
I would say that faith is a [i]lack[/i] of effort. Just throw caution to the wind and place all your chips on whatever bet makes you feel the coziest inside. Good luck to those who've decided to partake in this gamble. Only some of you have bet correctly.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37857363]Anti-Theism is a waste of effort.[/QUOTE] Which is why I don't engage in it.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37856711]Faith is a waste of effort.[/QUOTE] I disagree, faith much like hope is the belief in something that either is not the case at the moment or cannot be proven to certainty. A person who doesn't rely on hope at least some points in their life is most likely bound to be a fairly miserable person, so why should faith be so different from hope?
[QUOTE=Megafan;37853520]Even though the scientific method would in one way or another require you to provide evidence for an assertion, such as the assertion that God exists?[/QUOTE] If it were somehow proven that my beliefs are completely wrong I would admit so. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jayhawker30;37858290]I would say that faith is a [i]lack[/i] of effort. Just throw caution to the wind and place all your chips on whatever bet makes you feel the coziest inside. Good luck to those who've decided to partake in this gamble. Only some of you have bet correctly.[/QUOTE] It's not really a bet or a gamble... I don't quite get how this analogy works to be honest.
[QUOTE=Jayhawker30;37858290]I would say that faith is a [i]lack[/i] of effort. Just throw caution to the wind and place all your chips on whatever bet makes you feel the coziest inside. Good luck to those who've decided to partake in this gamble. Only some of you have bet correctly.[/QUOTE] Having faith isn't a gamble. I mean what do you have to lose? [b]Edit:[/b] Meader ninja-edited me. ):
[QUOTE=Jookia;37856711]Faith is a waste of effort.[/QUOTE] Faith in a necessary element in every person's life. If we didn't had a certain amount of faith, then we wouldn't be able to live our lives normally.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;37858851]I disagree, faith much like hope is the belief in something that either is not the case at the moment or cannot be proven to certainty. A person who doesn't rely on hope at least some points in their life is most likely bound to be a fairly miserable person, so why should faith be so different from hope?[/QUOTE] Hope is based on variables. Faith is based on nothing.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37859863]Hope is based on variables. Faith is based on nothing.[/QUOTE] No, hope isn't based on variables, it's simply the belief that things either are a certain way or will be a certain way regardless of how unlikely they are.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37856376]So? Just because we can't prove some totally metaphysical idea doesn't mean we can't believe in it. It's something called faith. Besides, its not like belief in some higher entity interferes with your ability to apply the scientific method to other, more feasible things.[/QUOTE] So you find reason in believing in an unverifiable, undetermined, unseeable, unknowable entity that no one except you and people who already believe similarly to you would buy into?
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;37859945]No, hope isn't based on variables, it's simply the belief that things either are a certain way or will be a certain way regardless of how unlikely they are.[/QUOTE] Looking at the definition, you're right. But hope is a feeling, not a decision like faith.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37860078]Looking at the definition, you're right. But hope is a feeling, not a decision like faith.[/QUOTE] You decide to feel hope for something, just like how you decide to feel faith in something, you only feel hope if you want to. The two pretty much seem synonymous.
[QUOTE=Jookia;37856711]Faith is a waste of effort.[/QUOTE] It is if you force it (which is what effort is by definition, it's the act of forcing). Most religious people don't go like "well damn I should be religious right now" and force themselves to believe. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Jookia;37859863]Hope is based on variables. Faith is based on nothing.[/QUOTE] Hope is not based on variable. If anything hope is on the same level of faith when it comes to rationality. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Megafan;37859973]So you find reason in believing in an unverifiable, undetermined, unseeable, unknowable entity that no one except you and people who already believe similarly to you would buy into?[/QUOTE] That's pretty much it. And personally I don't see what's wrong in it, as long as it does not hinder their thinking, which it clearly doesn't. Do you really think there never was religious scientists ? Science was partly pushed by religion. Why do you think we named the planets of our solar system after roman deities ? Plus a lot of scientists, for instance through the Renaissance and the French Revolution, were still religious. Maybe they weren't Christians, but they still believed in a Divine order of things (a Cosmos if you will), or in a "Clockmaker" god that created the universe and a set of scientific rules that rule it, then stepped back and watched his own creation go.
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