[QUOTE=yuki;33886967]Religion is a system of control designed by nobles and clever fellows way back in the day. Instills fear, keeps people in line, keeps people from questioning the despot. Just the way a leader would want it.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. They undergone a massive transformation and have been through many edits since the coming of all Abrahamic religions. They exist today as a way to keep people thinking that they're safe and settled, to make people ignorant of the fragility of life, to have people believe that their lives will be better by 'communicating' with a higher being. They believe if they break the 'rules' of their holy book that they'll go to a place that looks like a volcano, and if they follow the rules they will be accepted into a never ending paradise consisting of pillowy clouds and virgins.
When we were primitive we had to give voice and reason to all the power around us but we lacked the scientific knowledge to do so. Lightning and the Sun used to be thought of as god's work but now we can scientifically explain why these things exist and how they were made.
Gods are just used to explain things that we currently cannot. Please note that I said currently. They are also used to uphold values of an older society. The sad thing is people use religion as an excuse for ignorance and selfishness.
I do not think all religions are wrong but I believe some are simply because of what they demand of you. If a god demands that I kill others in his/her name or impose his/her will upon others then I believe as a species we should defy these gods for all eternity because we are better then they are and we are not their toys.
I consider myself an Agnostic.
[video=youtube;1iMmvu9eMrg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg[/video]
Interesting presentation on the topic, I'd say. Little biased, seeing as it was done on an atheist convention, but still.
any ancient astronaut theorists here?
[QUOTE=yuki;33886967]Religion is a system of control designed by nobles and clever fellows way back in the day. Instills fear, keeps people in line, keeps people from questioning the despot. Just the way a leader would want it.[/QUOTE]
Because Hinduism has caused extreme despotic dictatorships? This is a pathetic argument on the basis that Abrahamic religions are not the whole religious sphere, sure they make up a lot of it, but your argument does not reach all of the various religions.
Agreed that not all religion are closed minded, control freaks. I think we have a lot to learn about eastern tradition.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;33946010]Because Hinduism has caused extreme despotic dictatorships? This is a pathetic argument on the basis that Abrahamic religions are not the whole religious sphere, sure they make up a lot of it, but your argument does not reach all of the various religions.[/QUOTE]
Then my comment is specifically on Abrahamic religion and not religion as a whole.
Why does religion exist?
Because people have beliefs about things they don't know.
[QUOTE=Darth_GW7;33952098]Why does religion exist?
Because people have beliefs about things they don't know.[/QUOTE]
There are [I]a few[/I] that care.
People like the truth. They like learning the truth.
A religion gives it to them.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;33952875]People like the truth. They like learning the truth.
A religion gives it to them.[/QUOTE]
It gives them comfort in the form of false hope though, not actual truth (as far as evidence is concerned that is).
[QUOTE=Lyoko2;33941620]any ancient astronaut theorists here?[/QUOTE]
We're not [i]that[/i] dumb.
[editline]30th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;33952875]People like the truth. They like learning the truth.
A religion gives it to them.[/QUOTE]
You're implying a religion is the truth.
[QUOTE=Noble;33953680]It gives them comfort in the form of false hope though, not actual truth (as far as evidence is concerned that is).[/QUOTE]
If they feel hopeful, how can it be false?
[editline]29th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jookia;33954198]
You're implying a religion is the truth.[/QUOTE]
No he isn't.
[editline]29th December 2011[/editline]
he's not saying it's the "one and only truth".
Religion was an answer to the questions we couldn't find the answer to. Now we can answer the questions; so religion is becoming more and more redundant.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33954207]If they feel hopeful, how can it be false?[/QUOTE]
Because whether you want something to be true or not has no effect on it's truth value. For example, just because I want to believe I'll win the lottery someday, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to win.
Wishful thinking fallacy - [url]http://www.fallacyfiles.org/wishthnk.html[/url]
You could argue that religion gives a lot of people hope and some sort of purpose in life, but that doesn't have any effect on the truth/falsity of claims such as the world being created in 6 days or that any deities actually exist.
[QUOTE=Noble;33954671]Because whether you want something to be true or not has no effect on it's truth value. For example, just because I want to believe I'll win the lottery someday, that doesn't mean I'm actually going to win.
[/QUOTE]
But the hope of winning the lottery, doesn't make people happy. It's the winning.
But the hope that they have, makes them happy anyway. Your hope is false because it clearly isn't something you think much of. Try another example.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33954773]But the hope of winning the lottery, doesn't make people happy. It's the winning.
But the hope that they have, makes them happy anyway. Your hope is false because it clearly isn't something you think much of. Try another example.[/QUOTE]
My point was to demonstrate that hoping for something to be true doesn't have any effect on it being true. Whether or not I personally get a great deal of hope from a fantasy of winning a large sum of money doesn't change the point of my example.
But let's use the afterlife as an example. We have no evidence to believe that there is a life after death, yet the idea of it gives many people great hope and purpose to do good things in their life. But just because it makes them feel good and hopeful to think they're going to heaven when they die, doesn't have any effect on whether or not heaven exists.
[QUOTE=Noble;33954891]
But just because it makes them feel good and hopeful[/QUOTE]
I know what you're getting at, but it isn't getting anywhere. You are worried about menial things rather than people's happiness.
You have accepted that you cannot relate to these kind of people, so you might as well move on from that.
I've listened to a lot of soul/gospel music which tells me there isn't a thing wrong with it.
As long as people are happy, I'm fine. But when someone tries to think they are better because of it, then it's wrong.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;33952875]People like [B]the truth[/B]. They like learning [B]the truth[/B].
A religion gives it [[b]the truth[/b]] to them.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AK'z;33954207]No he isn't.[/QUOTE]
I replaced 'it' with what he's implying.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33954207]he's not saying it's the "one and only truth".[/QUOTE]
Good thing I didn't say he was saying that. I said that:
[QUOTE=Jookia;33954198]You're implying a religion is [B]the truth[/B].[/QUOTE]
Exactly what he said.
I can't handle the truth.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33955981]I replaced 'it' with what he's implying.
Good thing I didn't say he was saying that. I said that:
Exactly what he said.[/QUOTE]
I'm not implying anything. Any religion is going tell you that it's the truth.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;33957995]I'm not implying anything. Any religion is going tell you that it's the truth.[/QUOTE]
You implied that the word 'it' was shorthand for 'the truth'. Unless you were making no sense at all and just wrote 'it' for no reason.
So saying a religion gives them the truth implies that, well, religion gives them the truth.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33958104]You implied that the word 'it' was shorthand for 'the truth'. Unless you were making no sense at all and just wrote 'it' for no reason.
So saying a religion gives them the truth implies that, well, religion gives them the truth.[/QUOTE]
It's in the mindset of the religious person that their particular religion gives them the truth.
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You guys need to go deeper. You're just going into the mentality of its existence other than why has it prevailed throughout the ages and why its still exists this day. Each major religion was made, but also used by others to inject their ideas into people's mind as morally right or wrong. Christianity and Judaism changed the world culturally. Islam indirectly helped people discover scientific breakthroughs in medicine, robotics, and mechanics. All in all each religion had its own set of rules that everyone could follow giving political figures back then an easy way to set the law of the land. Each religion did something to the culture that it flourished in, but also edited to fit the people in powers way to control people. The Bible was edited with parts added and removed throughout history to change people's minds on hot topics during those times. They also made sure that the religion was law so that people would listen to them. Religion was misused as a tool of control, but it lived on because of the misuse. To this day its still used to backup claims or to increase a politicians popularity by either being religious or supporting religious freedoms. Religion will always exist mentally and politically.
Religion is more a traditional thing than a political power. I may be wrong because I don't live in the US, but even here the church has power.
[QUOTE=Noble;33953680]It gives them comfort in the form of false hope though, not actual truth (as far as evidence is concerned that is).[/QUOTE]
Going in that direction the actual truth doesn't exist, there is only more and less plausible theories. If one decides to believe the "some entity spawned the world with his only willpower" theory instead of the "there was pure concentrated everything that exploded into the universe" one because it gives him more comfort, then it's fine in my opinion as long as said belief only concerns him and that he's not forcing it down anyone's throat (which is why I hate so much extremists, should they be religious or atheists - they are just assuming everything they know is 100% true and will always stay that way).
[editline]30th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=AK'z;33963394]Religion is more a traditional thing than a political power. I may be wrong because I don't live in the US, but even here the church has power.[/QUOTE]
The fact the United States presidents have sworn over the bible for so much time now show how much power religion can have. I know it's not mandatory and I know you can swear on any book you want, but there's a reason the presidents have constantly sworn over that one precise book over the years - it's a political decision to put in their pocket the Christian conservatives who prefer to have a Christian president rather than one of another religion or one that doesn't have a religion at all.
This is why Rick Perry is bragging so much about his Christian values, because he knows if he does that there will be people as batshit insane as him who will follow him.
Definitely "Christianity" having a big effect on the minds of people over there. Not religion as a whole.
Then again what Obama says isn't exacty discrimanating. Maybe that's solely why he got elected.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33963591]Going in that direction the actual truth doesn't exist, there is only more and less plausible theories. If one decides to believe the "some entity spawned the world with his only willpower" theory instead of the "there was pure concentrated everything that exploded into the universe" one because it gives him more comfort, then it's fine in my opinion as long as said belief only concerns him and that he's not forcing it down anyone's throat (which is why I hate so much extremists, should they be religious or atheists - they are just assuming everything they know is 100% true and will always stay that way).[/QUOTE]
Except the view that some entity spawned the world isn't a theory in comparison to what you seem to be identifying as the Big Bang, which is based on mathematical models. If everyone did keep their beliefs to themselves like you said, I don't think Christianity or any religion for that matter would last very long. There's a reason why there's such a strong correlation between a child's religion and the religion of their parents. However, events like the Big Bang would be taught in science classes since it is based on observable evidence.
I agree with you that atheists shouldn't go and mock the religious for being indoctrinated (most of us probably bought into those ideas at one point of our lives), but religions themselves shouldn't be exempt from criticism when it affects children and government policy in a very real way. Now obviously, we can't go and force parents to stop teaching their kids their particular religion, but being exposed to different opinions can help them develop their own thoughts.
Also, no one is claiming to have 100% knowledge of anything, be it the existence of God or the origins of the universe, besides the religious.
[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;33962043]It's in the mindset of the religious person that their particular religion gives them the truth.[/QUOTE]
So? That doesn't mean it does.
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