[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;33964742]Also, no one is claiming to have 100% knowledge of anything, be it the existence of God or the origins of the universe, besides the religious.[/QUOTE]
Heh.. every athiest out there will tell you that they "know", 100%, that there is no God and that everything concerning religion is hokeypokey.
And there are religious people who will "know" for certain that there [I]is[/I] a God.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965254]Heh.. every athiest out there will tell you that they "know", 100%, that there is no God and that everything concerning religion is hokeypokey.[/QUOTE]
Not a single atheist I've ever met in my life thinks this
But they act and argue like it. Everybody I know is an atheist. And pretty much no one has ever even thought of questioning their atheism. Or are open to the [I]possibility [/I]that there [I]might[/I] just be a "God". It's a dead end I tell you.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965288]But they act and argue like it.[/QUOTE]
No one can know for 100% certainty whether god exists or not. If any atheist argues that they know for 100% certainty there is no god, they are being foolish.
Anyway, no one has problems calling Zeus/Apollo/Hades "mythology", right? It's not like there's much more evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god than there is for those other gods, so how do you know he isn't mythology too?
[quote]And pretty much no one has ever even thought of questioning their atheism. Or are open to the [I]possibility [/I]that there [I]might[/I] just be a "God". It's a dead end I tell you.[/QUOTE]
Most atheists I've met would have no problem accepting the existence of god, if real evidence was presented.
[QUOTE=Noble;33965435]No one can know for 100% certainty whether god exists or not. If any atheist argues that they know for 100% certainty there is no god, they are being foolish.[/QUOTE]
I know! That's my point! Most atheists are just as foolish as the religious people they fight imo.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965472]I know! That's my point! Most atheists are just as foolish as the religious people they fight imo.[/QUOTE]
Except that most atheists (again, none that I have ever met) aren't arguing 100% certainty about the nonexistence of god.
I guess we just hang around different crowds then.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965532]I guess we just hang around different crowds then.[/QUOTE]
Very different, apparently. Every single figurehead of atheism I can name say that they can't know for certain. Carl Sagan explicitly said so in Cosmos and Richard Dawkins rated himself a 6 out of 7 on a theism-to-atheism scale.
I can't blame you for getting the definition wrong though. Tons of people are confused about this (Carl Sagan and Michio Kaku coming to mind). A clear distinction has to be made between gnostic atheism (100% certain) and agnostic atheism (not 100% certain, but sees no evidence). I've never seen a gnostic atheist in my life.
Yeah, to say that you know for 100% certain that god does not exist is just a leap of faith (because we don't have the right evidence to make that conclusion). To be making leaps of faith like that isn't much better than being religious.
[QUOTE=Jookia;33964787]So? That doesn't mean it does.[/QUOTE]
Why are you asking him. He made a valid point, if it feels to them like the truth, why should that bother you.
I feel that some things in my life are more "other worldly", but to you that would mean squat because you haven't experienced what I have.
[editline]30th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Noble;33965435]No one can know for 100% certainty whether god exists or not. If any atheist argues that they know for 100% certainty there is no god, they are being foolish.
Anyway, no one has problems calling Zeus/Apollo/Hades "mythology", right? It's not like there's much more evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god than there is for those other gods, so how do you know he isn't mythology too?
Most atheists I've met would have no problem accepting the existence of god, if real evidence was presented.[/QUOTE]
No one is saying one is more mythological than the other. You think too deeply into nothing worth thinking into.
Greek Gods can be worshipped to, symbolically anyway.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33966252]
No one is saying one is more mythological than the other. You think too deeply into nothing worth thinking into.[/quote]
I think religious people would generally say that the greek gods are more mythological than their god, but that is just my .. wild guess.
In other words, I don't find it very likely that Christians, for example, would equate the chance that Zeus exists with the chance that the Christian god exists.
I have no clue because I've never heard that.
Greek Mythologies are famous for being "mythologies" you know.
[QUOTE=AK'z;33966503]I have no clue because I've never heard that.
Greek Mythologies are famous for being "mythologies" you know.[/QUOTE]
People believed in those gods just as seriously as many people believe in the abrahamic god today. It was their religion, they certainly didn't call it mythology at the time. The religion simply died out and we now refer to it as "mythology".
Maybe someday they'll be referring to Christianity as "Christian mythology" in the same way.
When in fact, they are mythologies. If people read further, they'd know that the stories are based on mythologies. I thought people knew this?
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;33964742]Also, no one is claiming to have 100% knowledge of anything, be it the existence of God or the origins of the universe, besides the religious.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure there's a few atheists out there who are persuaded what they know is the only truth possible though. There always are people like that.
This being said I think it's okay to spread your religion as long as it's a recommendation rather than an obligation. When you are raising a kid there's a difference between raising him with Christian values then telling him that if he wants to he can quit said religion and believe in whatever he wants (or not believe at all) and sending your kid to one of those Christian youth camps where they get brainwashed with the power of peer pressure.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965472]I know! That's my point! Most atheists are just as foolish as the religious people they fight imo.[/QUOTE]
You may be confusing the assertion that the Christian/Islamic/Jewish God does not exist for the assertion that no God can't ever or will ever exist.
[editline]30th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33967142]Pretty sure there's a few atheists out there who are persuaded what they know is the only truth possible though. There always are people like that.[/QUOTE]
I certainly wouldn't say that a god not existing is the only truth possible. What I can say with near 100% certainty is that the Abrahamic God does not exist.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33968763]I certainly wouldn't say that a god not existing is the only truth possible. What I can say with near 100% certainty is that the Abrahamic God does not exist.[/QUOTE]
Same opinion here. There's just too much detail about this god and it's just incoherent now. Maybe it made sense two thousand years ago but since that time it's been pretty much admitted the universe is pretty fucking immense and that we are but a little dot of life in a giant world of rocks and stars, so having one god looking like us who decided to suddenly create life and make it the center of the entire universe sounds like a really childish theory (but at the same time Freud also said Religion itself, especially Christianity, is pretty much a childish behavior because God is a parental figure for adults who lost their actual parents' protection a while ago)
This being said, I don't think the idea of an entity who created the universe is completely implausible. We can barely explain how the universe got created (the big bang) but the phenomenon itself isn't explained for the most part, so something might have triggered the reactions and conceived the universe we are living in. But there's a line between that and assuming it has the appearance of a human being, only thinks about us and never, ever created anything else in the entire universe.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33968914]This being said, I don't think the idea of an entity who created the universe is completely implausible. We can barely explain how the universe got created (the big bang) but the phenomenon itself isn't explained for the most part, so something might have triggered the reactions and conceived the universe we are living in. But there's a line between that and assuming it has the appearance of a human being, only thinks about us and never, ever created anything else in the entire universe.[/QUOTE]
This is what I mean. If real, credible, coherent evidence came up tomorrow that some supernatural entity created the universe, then I would put my stake in that. Not because I have faith in the idea of it, but because it is [I]backed up by evidence.[/I]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;33968914]Same opinion here. There's just too much detail about this god and it's just incoherent now. Maybe it made sense two thousand years ago but since that time it's been pretty much admitted the universe is pretty fucking immense and that we are but a little dot of life in a giant world of rocks and stars, so having one god looking like us who decided to suddenly create life and make it the center of the entire universe sounds like a really childish theory (but at the same time Freud also said Religion itself, especially Christianity, is pretty much a childish behavior because God is a parental figure for adults who lost their actual parents' protection a while ago)[/quote]
As for this, it is also true. The stories of the Abrahamic religious texts often contradict themselves or contain stories that defy the laws of nature. Not to mention the curious question of why, if the Abrahamic God exists, does he no longer intervene in this world as the Bible/Quran/Torah claims he used to? Seems awfully convenient that now that we have advanced recording technology and the ability to verify events like this, he doesn't feel like directly acting anymore.
[QUOTE=Noble;33965435]No one can know for 100% certainty whether god exists or not. If any atheist argues that they know for 100% certainty there is no god, they are being foolish.
Anyway, no one has problems calling Zeus/Apollo/Hades "mythology", right? It's not like there's much more evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic god than there is for those other gods, so how do you know he isn't mythology too?[/QUOTE]
There actually ARE people that practice that religion (Zeus and such). Same goes for Norse and Ancient Egyptian religions.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33969070]As for this, it is also true. The stories of the Abrahamic religious texts often contradict themselves or contain stories that defy the laws of nature. Not to mention the curious question of why, if the Abrahamic God exists, does he no longer intervene in this world as the Bible/Quran/Torah claims he used to? Seems awfully convenient that now that we have advanced recording technology and the ability to verify events like this, he doesn't feel like directly acting anymore.[/QUOTE]
What people often forget is that the bible for instance was written by people (and a lot of them according to the text itself). It might be interpreted as god's word, but it's still written by man and seeing how much contradictions there are about the same subject, it's quite obvious the people who wrote the book had in mind that it was going to conduct values, and they all had a different vision of these values.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965254]Heh.. every athiest out there will tell you that they "know", 100%,[/quote]no they wont. good job generalizing and putting words in the mouths of millions of people.
[editline]31st December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965288]But they act and argue like it. Everybody I know is an atheist. And pretty much no one has ever even thought of questioning their atheism. Or are open to the [I]possibility [/I]that there [I]might[/I] just be a "God". It's a dead end I tell you.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying because every black guy you know smokes weed so they all must. Have you ever thought that maybe they have given it a thought and have made their own conclusion and you just make bad arguments when talking to them?
have none of you heard of Dawkins seven point scale? there are three types of atheist minor, de-facto and strong; strong is there is %100 chance there is no god, de-facto is probably and minor speaks for its self.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965254]Heh.. every athiest out there will tell you that they "know", 100%, that there is no God [b]and that everything concerning religion is hokeypokey.[/b][/QUOTE]
Even the part where forgiveness is healthy for you? Or the part where Jesus expects kind acts from us?
But yeah it doesn't take a genius to figure out how real God is. Hell I don't even care to choose whether I'm atheist or a theist or a buddhist, because if you think there wouldn't even be atheism without theism.
[QUOTE=Rad McCool;33965254][B]Heh.. every athiest out there will tell you that they "know", 100%, that there is no God and that everything concerning religion is hokeypokey.[/B]
And there are religious people who will "know" for certain that there [I]is[/I] a God.[/QUOTE]
You're wrong.
You're like, seriously and massively wrong.
Atheists say they don't believe in God.
Theists say they believe in God.
Agnosticism means you don't know whether God exists or not.
Gnosticism means you know whether God exists or not.
Agnostic Atheism means you don't believe in a God, but also don't know if God exists or not. He could, but you don't know and thus don't see a purpose to believe.
What you're describing are gnostic atheists, who say god doesn't exist.
(And gnostic atheists are also a minority, kinda like fundamentalist theists)
[editline]1st January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=kingjerome;33995691]have none of you heard of Dawkins seven point scale? there are three types of atheist minor, de-facto and strong; strong is there is %100 chance there is no god, de-facto is probably and minor speaks for its self.[/QUOTE]
Heard of it, but I think the gnostic/agnostic atheist/theist system is a lot simpler.
So atheists are stupid for even mentioning God and thinking they are smart when they don't believe in it. (Most "atheists" probably don't even give a shit about the subject)
Theists are stupid for pointlessly believing in God.
Agnostics are stupid because they think they don't know whether God exists or not.
Gnostics.. Whoa that's a new one.
And Agnostic Atheism.. that's almost like agnosticism, except agnostic atheists choose not to believe but still leave room for God to be true, which is stupid.
Stop calling everyone stupid. We're all free-thinkers. Fuck this dumb class system that segregates people.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;33999481]So atheists are stupid for even mentioning God and thinking they are smart when they don't believe in it. (Most "atheists" probably don't even give a shit about the subject)
Theists are stupid for pointlessly believing in God.
Agnostics are stupid because they think they don't know whether God exists or not.
Gnostics.. Whoa that's a new one.
And Agnostic Atheism.. that's almost like agnosticism, except agnostic atheists choose not believe but still leave room for God to be true, which is stupid.[/QUOTE]
There is no duality of Agnostic/Gnostic Athiesm and 'Agnosticism'. You're either an Agnostic Athiest (Meaning you don't believe in God but aren't certain about the non-existence of gods) or a Gnostic Athiest (Meaning you don't believe in God and are certain that no god or gods exist).
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;33995905]Even the part where forgiveness is healthy for you?[/quote]
unconditional forgiveness is retarded
[quote]there wouldn't even be atheism without theism[/quote]
what
no
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;34001277]There is no duality of Agnostic/Gnostic Athiesm and 'Agnosticism'. You're either an Agnostic Athiest (Meaning you don't believe in God but aren't certain about the non-existence of gods) or a Gnostic Athiest (Meaning you don't believe in God and are certain that no god or gods exist).[/QUOTE]
If you are uncertain whether God exists or not in a sense that we could even talk to him, you are stupid.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34001978]unconditional forgiveness is retarded[/QUOTE]
Yeah no shit.. it kind of loses its purpose when the forgiven person goes and does something which puts him in a position to be forgiven again, and again, God forbid.
Almost like rehab where some attempts aren't successful.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;34001978]what
no[/QUOTE]
Actually he's right, it's common sense.
You can't say someone is against a concept if the concept doesn't exist to begin with.
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